Can anyone say "scrubbing"? (funny yet disurbing email)

[xxxjay]

This is a an email I go from someone that is dying to join one of our sites. Surfers are more savy than you think they are and this is a sad testimonial to the state of 3rd party billing:

From: Polo [mailto:*****69_99@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:36 PM
To: jayq2@comcast.net
Subject: I got a "Q" for you...


... do you know of any sites that accepts debit cards (by Mastercard or Visa) besides the Sales/Billing companies like Paynet.com and CCbill.com? I keep getting declined by these bastards and I have more than enough money on my card. It's not my issuing bank, because they told me that my card was working properly.
I even bought some books online and didn't have any trouble. These two companies are going to lose some serious business if they don't cut some slack to people who either don't want credit cards but is paying actual money (Like the checking account).

Let me know something.

-Marco

[RawAlex]

Jay, I personally have had issues with payment processors because of a simple typo by my bank on a credit card account. The software scrib was set to accept no variances in name or address. Mine had a 2 letters transposed, and that was enough to block me out from being able to purchase a camera online.

I have long since cleared it up, but some things are just frustrating as hell.

Alex

[Ramster]

That is fucked and scary. :(

[Kinky]

yeah the scrub seems to get worse and worse... if you don't use your exact info as your CC billing info you can get declined... I had trouble because I was using dr instead of spelling out drive trying to buy some clothes online once

[Mr. Blue]

Yeah, I made a CC error on one form (I put in 11580 instead of my postal zip of 11582) and they refused it once and that's all they wrote. Had a hell of a time getting it to work again.

[Lunatic]

I don't know if this belongs in another thread, but I can't use my ePassporte virtual Visa with CCBill at any merchant even though I've never had problems with the account and my balance is high enough.
Paycom, Epoch, iBill, etc. all will accept the same card number and info. How many sales are lost by not having alternate or cascade billing?

[Head Boy]

I've got a 4 line English address - the only way I can use my card online is the leave out the street, and therefore use an incorrect address. :)

Isn't it time that paysites started to accept payment methods like Money Bookers. (they don't allow chargebacks either).

[tickler]

I don't know if this belongs in another thread, but I can't use my ePassporte virtual Visa with CCBill at any merchant even though I've never had problems with the account and my balance is high enough.
Paycom, Epoch, iBill, etc. all will accept the same card number and info. How many sales are lost by not having alternate or cascade billing?
ePassporte is sorta Paycom/Epoch anyways. Me thinks there was some competitive blocking going on.

[HarryM]

I tried joining a site with my visa cc the other week to check the members area out and I got re-directed to a page wanting me to make an epassporte account instead.
It said my region of the world is blocked from this type of transaction by the merchant, but it's ok if I get an epassporte.
I'm from Australia, guess we are a dodgy lot down here |pirate

[Useless]

I'm from Australia, guess we are a dodgy lot down here |pirate
You guys have credit cards down there on that big deserted island? I thought you were still on the barter system.
|couch|

[HarryM]

well it was only last year when I walked into a gas station so off my face i tried to pay in ciggerettes.
i already made my hot dog so the guy was fucked

[basschick]

i have used my epassporte virtual visa to buy video editing programs, and a few other thing, but it doesn't work for anything high-risk (which means adult).

if you can't use it for anything, maybe you should contact epoch.

I don't know if this belongs in another thread, but I can't use my ePassporte virtual Visa with CCBill at any merchant even though I've never had problems with the account and my balance is high enough.
Paycom, Epoch, iBill, etc. all will accept the same card number and info. How many sales are lost by not having alternate or cascade billing?

[ronnie]

I think if we knew how many sales we lose to scrubbing we would be more than bummed.

I agree there should be other billing options, paypal types, but I have yet to see one that is instant set up. The surfer is'nt going to wait till they get approved, they will just move on to another site that will take their money instantly.

ronnie

[Phoenix]

my comapny card gets turned down all the time

sad

[Lunatic]

i have used my epassporte virtual visa to buy video editing programs, and a few other thing, but it doesn't work for anything high-risk (which means adult).

if you can't use it for anything, maybe you should contact epoch.

I've tried to join a few adult sites with my ePassporte virtual visa, and if they have Paycom as an alternative processor or part of their cascading billing the transaction is approved even if CCBill just denied the transaction. Since I've never had a problem with the virtual Visa, I don't know why CCBill would turn me down. I'll contact Epoch and CCBill and see what they say.

[Opti]

I think if we knew how many sales we lose to scrubbing we would be more than bummed.

:( |cry| |angry| |dizzy| ... very bummed.



That sounds interesting about the epassporte redirect HarryMuff.. nice feature.

What's the site name?

[Rand]

Surfers are more savy than you think they are and this is a sad testimonial to the state of 3rd party billing:


IPSP's do not block debit cards. Without knowing the card number I have no way to know what happened in this guys case, but there are any number of reasons why he may be denied. The most likely reason is that he's had a previous chargeback history and has been blocked. If that is the case, you don't want the guy anyway.

[Rand]

I can't use my ePassporte virtual Visa with CCBill at any merchant even though I've never had problems with the account and my balance is high enough.
Paycom, Epoch, iBill, etc. all will accept the same card number and info.

CCBill does not accept ePassporte.

[Rand]

I think if we knew how many sales we lose to scrubbing we would be more than bummed.

Yeah that may be true. But it's not a perfect world. If it were and everyone was honest you wouldn't need a payment processor to approve or decline a transaction.

If it weren't for the risky transactions being declined, you wouldn't be able to stay in business.

[Toby]

I think if we knew how many sales we lose to scrubbing we would be more than bummed.
I had a sponsor tell me that their sales increased 30% when they implemented cascading billing. Bummed indeed |cry|

[Opti]

Yeah that may be true. But it's not a perfect world. If it were and everyone was honest you wouldn't need a payment processor to approve or decline a transaction.

If it weren't for the risky transactions being declined, you wouldn't be able to stay in business.

Hey Rand,

Do you see any evidence of decline percentages shooting up recently?

Would adult sites having 50%-70% of CC transactions declined sound unusual in your experience?

[Rand]

Hey Rand,

Do you see any evidence of decline percentages shooting up recently?

Would adult sites having 50%-70% of CC transactions declined sound unusual in your experience?

There is no indication of an across-the-board increase in declines. Individual programs may experience increases from time to time if they have a bad affiliate attempting to send fraudulant transactions through a program.

And in terms of the percentage of declined transactions... that varies. I can see how a program could see declines that high.

[Lunatic]

CCBill does not accept ePassporte.

Thanks for clearing that up. :) I'm curious why though.

[Rand]

Thanks for clearing that up. :) I'm curious why though.

ePassporte blocks high-risk transactions unless the merchant has an agreement in place with ePassporte. Adult (audio-text) digital goods are MCC5967 (high risk).

If CCBill had an agreement in place with ePassporte, they could accept it as a payment type.

[Greenguy]

Hey - I have a legit question! :)

Rand - are debit cards with CC logos on them treated differently than normal CC's?

[Rand]

Hey - I have a legit question! :)

Rand - are debit cards with CC logos on them treated differently than normal CC's?

That depends on the merchant.

If a card has a card-association logo on it, then it can be processed through interchange. And in most cases I would guess there is no difference in the processing of that transaction.

But, for example, here in LA we have this mega-shopping retail store called Costco that doesn't take MasterCard or Visa, only American Express. But, they do accept my Visa debit card. Go figure.

[koolkat]

I'm pretty sure the are treated differently GG. If you look at Ikobo (yes I know... bad example), but they accept Visa credit cards, but not check cards. Go figure! |angry|

[Rand]

I'm pretty sure the are treated differently GG. If you look at Ikobo (yes I know... bad example), but they accept Visa credit cards, but not check cards. Go figure! |angry|

Again, it's up to the merchant.

Some may scrub differently based on the card type, if the processor has cutomized thier filtering based on past experience.

I don't think there is really a clear answer to this one.

[Greenguy]

Does Epoch, as a merchant, treat them differently? (and I have no hidden agenda, so don't worry about anything - LOL)

[ronnie]

Yeah that may be true. But it's not a perfect world. If it were and everyone was honest you wouldn't need a payment processor to approve or decline a transaction.

If it weren't for the risky transactions being declined, you wouldn't be able to stay in business.

Oh I agree, there are far too many scammers. And I agree, there needs to be some protocol's in place. But we also know good cards get turned down far to often. Then again, I am not a processor, I'm sure it is a thin line.

ronnie

[Rand]

Does Epoch, as a merchant, treat them differently? (and I have no hidden agenda, so don't worry about anything - LOL)

If the card passes AVS check, BIN check, fraud filtering, and interchange, then the approval is processed no differently.

[RawAlex]

Rand, is the situaton with CCBill not accepting Epassporte a strictly buisness situation, or is it an issue of competition? Would it help if people processing with CCBill put pressure on them to accept it?

Alex

[Rand]

Rand, is the situaton with CCBill not accepting Epassporte a strictly buisness situation, or is it an issue of competition? Would it help if people processing with CCBill put pressure on them to accept it?
Alex

At one point I thought there was a tentative agreement for CCBill to start taking ePassporte but I'm not certain about that. All that they would need is to have an agreement in place with ePassporte and then all sites processed by CCBill could accept ePassporte also.

[Greenguy]

Ok - in all honestly, I was just wondering why they asked if it was a credit or debit card at the local stores & whatnot :)

[Lunatic]

Ok - in all honestly, I was just wondering why they asked if it was a credit or debit card at the local stores & whatnot :)
I've tried to use a credit card at some of the local fast food places and they say they don't take cc's just debit cards. Does it have something to do with the availability of the funds maybe? It seems like the opposite is true on the internet. Merchants prefer cc's to debit cards

[security_man]

from what i understand if you use your check card as a credit card (ie signing the recipt and not using a pin) then the merchant has to pay a higher processing fee and the purchase can be disputed by the customer, even if its signed for. if you use a pin then there is no doubt that the customer has used it (or at least in a dispute the merchant has an advantage) and cannot dispute the charge so the merchant is off the hook and is guranteed payment. Thats why costco will not accept debit cards as credit cards (i was a member when they changed it and had a manager explain it to me cuz i was pissed) american express isnt techinically credit like visa is cuz you cant carry a balance.

also if you use it for paying the pump when you get gas as a credit card then it just checks to see if the account is active, if you put in your pin then it actually puts a $50 hold on your account.

im no expert but this is how i understand it at least LOL

[Lunatic]

from what i understand if you use your check card as a credit card (ie signing the recipt and not using a pin) then the merchant has to pay a higher processing fee and the purchase can be disputed by the customer, even if its signed for. if you use a pin then there is no doubt that the customer has used it (or at least in a dispute the merchant has an advantage) and cannot dispute the charge so the merchant is off the hook and is guranteed payment. Thats why costco will not accept debit cards as credit cards (i was a member when they changed it and had a manager explain it to me cuz i was pissed) american express isnt techinically credit like visa is cuz you cant carry a balance.

also if you use it for paying the pump when you get gas as a credit card then it just checks to see if the account is active, if you put in your pin then it actually puts a $50 hold on your account.

im no expert but this is how i understand it at least LOL



Sounds like a good explanation to me. :)

[Greenguy]

Ahhh - the PIN number - that explains it :)

[Rand]

SecurityMan's explanation is right on (for the retail brick-and-mortar environment).

It also makes a difference if you are getting cash back.

[koolkat]

The debit card is a strange animal! You can still dispute transactions even with a PIN number used, but the liklihood of getting it back is very small unless you sign an Affadavit of Fraud and agree to prosecute who ever is identified as using the card (which 99.9% of the time it is the actual user). Also, a lot of places like gas stations only hold $1 as a pre-auth.

I didn't believe there was a difference in processing prices for debit vs. credit.