A question, would you rather premote .....

[Tommy]

What do you like better for premoting

those mega programs with 50 sites
or
a single site with a small webmaster program

lately I seem to like the smaller single site programs

the service is way better and i dont feel like I am being cheated so much, if any

also it seems I am selling a much better product

[Greenguy]

I promote pretty much everyone, but I do have to admit that getting 1 big check form the mega program is better then 50 tiny checks from the smaller ones as it makes me think my cock is bigger |thumb

[Fonz]

The small programs with just a few sites offer better support indeed, probably because the owners are much more into the niches they offer than the large ones who have 50+ sites within 15-20 niches.
But almost all of these smaller programs can only survive when they offer the 50% recurring payout and not the 4.95 trial/ $35 payout the bigger ones offer and which we all like so much..
Anyway I find myself signing up and promoting the smaller ones more and more lately.

[Tommy]

yeah but lately I am thinking 50 little checks is better , In fact MUCH BETTER

when one program goes to shit when your money is spread out its not a huge hit

when your making 10k a month with a big program, no matter how big they are its gotta hurt em to write that check
I can see em thinking if we could just keep 10% thats a grand a month

[Surfn]

I like any program that pays. I have enough useless checks to wall paper my office.

I prefer programs where I know people as opposed to doing biz with faceless entities.

[Cleo]

I do very few of the big programs anymore. The little stuff seems to sell better and much of it is recurring which is really great.

I get lots of little checks and one big one from CCBill since I put all my CCBill little sites under one account.

[tickler]

....probably because the owners are much more into the niches they offer than the large ones who have 50+ sites within 15-20 niches.

There was a thread a little while back about sponsors making sites without really knowing the niche. It generally means worst ratios in comparison to niche specific sponsors.

....I find myself signing up and promoting the smaller ones more and more lately.
I am getting a lot of single sites in my ccBill account. But, they convert much better than the mega-sponsors do.

[Toby]

What Cleo said. |thumb

I also like to keep a mix of pay per sale and recurring. During a particularly slow week for new sales those rebills sure are sweet.

[Greenguy]

Tommy - you're the ones that always warned me to not have all my eggs in one basket & after the mess with Max Cash back in 99? and then ARS last year, I've got myself nice & spread out to the point where I think the most one particular sponsor sends me is about 5% of my total income (as opposed to when Max Cash & ARS were 25% of my totals each month before the unpleasantness)

[ponygirl]

I started out promoting the bigger programs, and still do if a fave sponsor brings out a new one - but the smaller ones are definitely the way I'm heading now, CCBill is great since you don't have to wait to hit minimum payments if you're only getting sales here & there :D
Plus I'm finding a lot of better niche-specific sites with smaller sponsors, which of course sell better long term.

I guess a mix of both is good, some surfers like getting a big variety.

Ponygirl

[Ms Naughty]

It makes me happy to see people like smaller sponsors :D

I too have a mix of big and small, but I've found that my list of trusted/converting major sponsors is now very small indeed.

[MadMax]

I like to have a balance of both. It definitely seems that I get better service from many of the smaller programs, but not all of them. The nicest thing about the small programs is that they aren't overpromoted.

[ponyman]

I really like trying the smaller sponsors out. There are a lot of smaller sponsors with sites that are rarely seen by surfers, and they definitely convert better.

Some of the big sponsors really rock, too, though. Sweet Money is pretty big, but their sites still convert well for me, and I never feel like I'm being cheated.

[Linkster]

Tommy - gotta go with the small programs as well - especially since you and I both know that every one of the larger programs has that hand in there - I dont care what aff program they use (software) and whether they say they cant skim - who cares - they can still turn off paid sales per affiliate on any given day of the week.

I am slowly removing all the big sponsors and moving everything over to the smaller sites - tired of the on again off again cheating sponsors.

[spookyx]

I agree with going wth the smaller guys just for the better service, and we are one of the small guys..

:D

[mist]

My experience is that a smaller guy tends to work harder for you when it comes to custom promoting materials, galleries etc, which makes it feel better promoting his program. A big company does not need to care so much about you.

[Lunatic]

I like to take my money and run. Get a commision, as big as possible, and let them worry about keeping the surfer. Which means going with a big sponsor, but only if they have great service and make me as much money for my bandwidth as a small sponsor could. The small sponsors have great content and models, but I don't like getting $5.00 and then maybe a rebill or two for another $17.00 each when I can get $35.00 all at once. Plus I'm addicted to the ease of epassporte payments rather than waiting for checks from ccbill.

[Ramster]

When I look at my stats I see most of my income comes from smaller programs as well. I agree that I think the smaller sites will do a bit more for you knowing that if you're sending 50-100 sales a month that they actually appreciate it. And some of the smaller sites may put out a better more personal product.

[Linkster]

One thing Ive always done with the revshare smaller sites - is to join the site - of course not with my rev code - but to see if the site would really retain.
I have seen some that wont retain past a 5 day trial - and then I have one where they are still retaining members from 5 years ago - so its something to investigate before commiting a huge amount of traffic to

[Halfdeck]

I have the easiest time promoting paysites I'm dying to join -- which generally means no mega sponsors. I build sites surrounding revshare sites I like or PPS with good ratio from smaller sponsors, then use a few big sponsor programs to catch jaded traffic looking for free/cheap porn.

[AdultCEO]

I prefer smaller sponsors.
The biggest advantage for me is that you have the chance to promote sites that not everyone else out there promote...:)

[Useless]

I love small programs. I just don't get the feeling that they are intentionally cheating me, but get that feeling a lot with big sponsors.

Ya know what's funny? Five posters in this thread who like small sponsors have a button for ARS in their sig. :D

[Lunatic]

Ya know what's funny? Five posters in this thread who like small sponsors have a button for ARS in their sig. :D LOL :D Like I say, give me a big commision up front, and then let the sponsor make their money by retaining the surfer and from upsells. ARS can even offer higher commisions since they don't have a revshare program anymore.

[Bill]

Big programs convert much better than small programs, and the money is better.

You guys must not be selling right.

There can be exceptions, small programs that really retain members, and they are great when you find them.

But dollar for dollar, you will earn more with big name programs. And you get the money up front.

[emmanuelle]

I don't mean this to be spammy (feel free to delete it if you feel otherwise) but I'd like to show proof of how well smaller programs convert. Here is a screen cap I took a while back of one of our affiliates for a one week period http://www.naughtyniche.com/temp/affiliate.jpg

Smaller sponsors work harder to keep affiliates happy, and members even happier!

[GunnCat]

95% of my business is CCBill sponsors.

[tickler]

Ya know what's funny? Five posters in this thread who like small sponsors have a button for ARS in their sig. :D
Could be because my best converting small sites don't have a WM refferal program. No sense bringing in extra competition if there is nothing in it for me.

Bill, keep in mind that the bigger sponsors are also cross selling like crazy to bring you the bigger payouts. You only need to look at the $5-10 less per console free sale to get an ideal. Also some even pop hard hitting consoles without your links in front of the surfer when they go to the paysite.

[Bill]

The big name sponsors treat you like shit. It's a given.

But my big checks always come from the bigger sponsors. That's just my personal experience. Click for click, more money from the bigger sponors. Yes, even taking recurring into account. Yes, even with companies like fucking ars collapsing.

Maybe my sales experience is just odd. Maybe my luck with ccbill, and the defunct globill and ibill, has just been a run of bad luck.

But, the big sponsors are a dying breed, and they will probably fold or reorganize sometime in the next two years. So, if you take that into account, the new breed of ccbill etc recurring may be all that's available, and from that perspective, small sponsors win out.

[remote]

revshare with smaller sponsors, that retain. as linkster said, check out the members area to see what it is.

big sponsors paying you big money on pps, worries me, that if they dont make enough to make up for it, with their popups, uppsells and what not, they will turn me on and off, as also mentioned earlier in this thread.

[spookyx]

revshare with smaller sponsors, that retain. as linkster said, check out the members area to see what it is.

big sponsors paying you big money on pps, worries me, that if they dont make enough to make up for it, with their popups, uppsells and what not, they will turn me on and off, as also mentioned earlier in this thread.

welcome back remote. long time no see :P
|pink

[docholly]

i like 1 big check from ccbill from promoting indie porn and smaller programs.. a simple email when i need fresh content usually reaps big rewards. and if one of them goes out of biz, it certainly doesn't hurt as much. We have 2 or 3 bigger sponsors that we use for the hfs and just to offer a variety.

[nekrom]

I perfer the smaller hidden programs that don't advertise and are invite only or found by word of mouth. Especialy ones that micro nice their sites in the bondage realms. Edge play as an example.

Their members areas always seem great to me when checked and they retain like flys to excrement on a warm summers day.

-N

[Far-L]

How do you all feel about smallish but bordering on medium sized programs that formerly were part of a big program but not anymore and are now still going through some growing pains but have a great brand, exclusive content, and literally invented and continues to innovate the amateur niche?

|waves|

[Linkster]

Far-L |waves|
That would be the perfect program to promote - with it's experience and exposure to the mainstream world, as well as it's backing by some of the most experienced people in the biz, that would be a win-win solution for that niche :)

[docholly]

Far-L |waves|
That would be the perfect program to promote - with it's experience and exposure to the mainstream world, as well as it's backing by some of the most experienced people in the biz, that would be a win-win solution for that niche :)

|thumb especially if Far-L is involved!!!

*wishing she was still in seattle*

[plateman]

A mix of both and also on a LL and free sites and galleries..

[Lunatic]

How do you all feel about smallish but bordering on medium sized programs that formerly were part of a big program but not anymore and are now still going through some growing pains but have a great brand, exclusive content, and literally invented and continues to innovate the amateur niche?

|waves|Plus it's $30.00 PPS. Works for me. :)

[remote]

welcome back remote. long time no see :P
|pink

thanks! ill try to stay around this time. About to start free sites again, havnt touched them since 2001 or something. And thought why not hang out here and learn a few trick and what not. Plus get updated on "Do's" and "Dont do's"

[furrygirl]

How do you all feel about smallish but bordering on medium sized programs that formerly were part of a big program but not anymore and are now still going through some growing pains but have a great brand, exclusive content, and literally invented and continues to innovate the amateur niche?

|waves|

You've always been one of my best sponsors, and I don't even try hard to promote anyone but me.

[Far-L]

Feeling the love!

Quite frankly, I was expecting a bashing because we have not been with out problems over the last year...

Thanks to all for the kind words!

|bow| |bow| |bow|

[smoo]

fuck ars

[Far-L]

fuck ars

lol

That is more like what I was expecting... but I think you really have to be a big program to incur serious wrath.

[Simon]

Quite frankly, I was expecting a bashing because we have not been with out problems over the last year...
Hahahaa... oh yeah, and none of the rest of us around here have had any problems in the last year or so! :D

Hiya Far-L ... not sure if you recall, but I think we were on an Internext roundtable together back in 2002. As I remember, it was supposed to be on 'niche marketing' but they changed it to 'targeted marketing' at the last minute for some reason.

Anyway, just wanted to say it's nice to see you're back to doing things your way again.

Simon

[Far-L]

Hahahaa... oh yeah, and none of the rest of us around here have had any problems in the last year or so! :D

Hiya Far-L ... not sure if you recall, but I think we were on an Internext roundtable together back in 2002. As I remember, it was supposed to be on 'niche marketing' but they changed it to 'targeted marketing' at the last minute for some reason.

Anyway, just wanted to say it's nice to see you're back to doing things your way again.

Simon

|waves|

Yes indeed I do remember... you were one of the only people up there that was offering advice rather than laying down a sales pitch.

Thanks for the kind words!

(niche became more of a buzzword after the excitement on "targeted" died down a bit if i remember correctly)

[dirtyjumbo]

Emmanuelle, I want to sign up with your program to promote your FF site. I took a look at the tour and the "more feet" links keep going around in circles and some of the join buttons aren't linked


I don't mean this to be spammy (feel free to delete it if you feel otherwise) but I'd like to show proof of how well smaller programs convert. Here is a screen cap I took a while back of one of our affiliates for a one week period http://www.naughtyniche.com/temp/affiliate.jpg

Smaller sponsors work harder to keep affiliates happy, and members even happier!

[Simon]

Yes indeed I do remember... you were one of the only people up there that was offering advice rather than laying down a sales pitch.Well...I may have been one, but you were definitely the other one. I guess we must have thought we were actually there to share some helpful ideas with the people attending. :)

(niche became more of a buzzword after the excitement on "targeted" died down a bit if i remember correctly)
Yep, we were approached to do the roundtable on 'niche marketing,' but I think it was renamed because they thought more people would know what 'targeted' meant back then.

I think 'niche' became all the rage once everyone realized that "targeted" was just too damn easy to pronouce. Gotta love the new webmasters who either put a hard "i" in it (n-eye-ch) or think you need to hear the "e" (nich-eee). :D

Simon

P.S. And to keep this on topic, we're a small, single site sponsor program, and we do promote other sponsors on our free feeder sites. I've found we do better promoting small programs, and that usually the retention on revshare is better (as long as they have a good members area).

[emmanuelle]

Emmanuelle, I want to sign up with your program to promote your FF site. I took a look at the tour and the "more feet" links keep going around in circles and some of the join buttons aren't linked

Hi Dirty Jumbo

Thanks for catching that pesky join button- Good eye!

On this site we tried something new, allowing the surfer to experience all that we have to offer, regardless of where he enters from; rather than a traditional linear tour. To compensate, there are nearly twenty links to the join on every page. While it has worked extremely well for us on this site, if you would prefer a tour laid out to your own specs, we would be happy to do this for you. Please feel free to contact me directly at linc at naughtyniche.com or icq 64614011.

In any event, thank you for considering us :-)

[dirtyjumbo]

Hi Dirty Jumbo

Thanks for catching that pesky join button- Good eye!

On this site we tried something new, allowing the surfer to experience all that we have to offer, regardless of where he enters from; rather than a traditional linear tour. To compensate, there are nearly twenty links to the join on every page. While it has worked extremely well for us on this site, if you would prefer a tour laid out to your own specs, we would be happy to do this for you. Please feel free to contact me directly at linc at naughtyniche.com or icq 64614011.

In any event, thank you for considering us :-)

Hi emmanuelle :)

Tx for the response, I'll be joining your program ASAP. Before I join a sponsor I always check their tours and links so that's how I noticed some of the join buttons weren't linked. BTW, thx for offering to build a custom tour but there's really no need for that, I'm just a small fish ;)
Received your PM but since I replied here I won't bother to answer it lol

[emmanuelle]

Hi emmanuelle :)

BTW, thx for offering to build a custom tour but there's really no need for that, I'm just a small fish ;)



Little guys are important people too!

Just like little sponsors |cool|

[dirtyjumbo]

Little guys are important people too!

Just like little sponsors |cool|

Just signed up, I'll start promoting you on my blogs ASAP, looking forward to sending you traffic, I only checked out the FF tour so far but it looks great |thumb
I'll also be sending traffic to your interracial sites and I might just consider setting up a balloon blog to promote your program :)
Have a nice Sunday,

DJ

[Lenny]

I like the small sites that really take care of their members and recur for a loooonnnnggg time.

However, the problem with alot of those is that any newbie who doesn't have a clue can open a ccbill program, so you have to make sure that the people who own the site/program do know what they're doing or else you're throwing your traffic away.

[Far-L]

What do you consider a long time and what dollar amount on the recur? (never mind the percentage payouts... a site paying 50/50 on $40 is still paying better than a 70% payount on a $15 dollar membership.)

[Jringo]

I would say that finding a honest single model site that has been around for awhile and has a Hot Ass babe has been my best seller. Many like it more personal kind of 1 on 1 knowing or at least thinking the woman in the pic is actually there. If you become the small sites best seller you also get special treatment (sometimes at least ,if they are worth their word)