There's nothing irresposible about running a porn site that does not outwardly condone the use of condoms, but I do think it's irresponsible to to actually promote the non-use of condoms and there's a big difference.

It's no different than advertising for cars where they show the drivers going very fast on winding roads because they are trying to excite someone into buying the car. They are not condoning speeding or showing the speedometer at 120mph but they are definitely showing the car doing things that most drivers can't do or shouldn't do because they would be unlawful. It's called effective advertising.

I used to bill my site as a "masturbation assistance program" *promoting webcams*.. and actually applied in Cali for a non-profit status. So you could really in a twisted way.. promote webcam sites using condomlesson.com as a venue.. give links on one side for the lessons (condom affiliate sites) and then have your Main THRUST so to speak being webcams where no condoms are necessary.

Just a round about thought..

OH I get it now, your opinion of me is supposed to matter to me! Gotcha...WRONG ANSWER again.

I just looked at his page again, and he explains on there that the domain was a drunken attempt at trying to purchase condomless.com but he didn't type it in correctly, and that's what he ended up with! lol

Oh yeah, I saw how he came up with the name, my question is once he made the mistake and decided to keep it, what is the surfer supposed to think when they hear the name?

I'm still wondering why anyone would think that Penis-bot is anything other than a gay site. Names are funny that way. The destiny of a site is determined by how the owner works it, not by the domain he types when he's shit-faced.

I've bought lots of 4 letter expired domains and use them for something that nothing to do with the spelling of the domain. Like you said it's all how you work it :)

I think you could make a very cool free site with condomlesson.com Why not ask sponsors for promo content with condoms, or more specifically, content that shows some hot babe putting the condom on? I know a number of guys who (Pavlovian, I know) get all excited to see the condoms come out because they know it means they're going to get some. It's something different, so don't listen to people who are so ravenously trying to hold up the same old porno standard of "condoms sucks".

I've never said that all adult sites need to devote lots of space to openly advocating safer sex. I simply see having condoms in porn as a wonderful and easy positive statement in itself, far more effective than having a drab text-only page about how Company X supports condom use.

Out of curiousity, where do you draw the line between "promoting the non-use of condoms" and just featuring content that doesn't use condoms?

I don't care if the content depicts condom use or not, because like I said, I don't see it as my place as a pornographer to promote safe sex. That's up to schools, condom manufacturers, doctors and public service organizations. I am selling fantasies not reality. If I show two people having sex on a website, it is my assumption that they were both tested and are mature adults and know what they are doing. They could be married for all I know, and if they are, making them use condoms for a photo shoot just to make a point seems ridiculous to me.

If someone is old enough to use a credit card and pay to view porn, they are also old enough to have a brain and some common sense. If you think that showing them images of people using condoms is going to make them use condoms, but stories about people dying from AIDS isn't, then I think you are naive and they're idiots.

Safer sex education is not happening in schools or public service organizations. The government does not fund anything that teaches anything other than "abstinence-only". If you're counting on the government to teach people about condoms and birth control and STIs, you've not been paying attention to the news from the last few years. Ideally, it would be great if there were trained sex education professionals that has actual medical experience that went around to schools and gave accurate and realistic information to young people about sex. However, even at the *best of times*, (I got sex ed in school with Clinton in office), the people teaching the material were the old sewing/home-ec ladies who could barely say penis without turning beet red, and surely weren't going to be able to tell me what my risks for contracting Hep C from giving a blow job, or how an abortion is performed if I chose to terminate a pregnancy.

By that logic, would you promote an erotica site that specializes in stories about raping children? I mean, that's "just a fantasy", right? Again, it's just a cop-out: "I'm selling fantasies, I'm here to make money". So is everyone here, but that doesn't mean we should cast off any sense of ethics in the name of making a quick buck.

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If turning 18 magically gifts people with "common sense", then how come the news is filled with adults who do ignorant/malicious things? From the Bush administration to a local rapist to Darwin Award winners to the girls who takes *a* birth control pill every time they has sex, adults make mistakes constantly. Turning 18 means nothing, especially when their previous years were filled with purposeful misinformation about sexuality.

I'm naive? If your argument held any water at all, it would mean that every person who is aware of deadly STIs would always practice safe sex, otherwise they're "idiots". Here's something I just Googled from the AMA site: "More than 60 million Americans are currently infected with an STD, and about 19 million new cases occur every year." Do you think that *none* of those 60 million people has ever heard of STIs, or were under 18, and therefor, had not yet gained "common sense"?

Keep sticking your head in the sand, maybe one of these days your own daughter will come home with a bun in the oven and syphilis because her boyfriend thought condoms are unsexy and she learned in school that they don't work anyhow.

I believe that we smut-peddlers have a responsibility to our viewers. Many pornographers have the mentality of criminals, in that they advocate doing whatever it takes to make money, and then they're shocked that the government treats us as criminals.

People in our profession need to realize that we do influence people with what we *tacitly* advocate on our sites. We may not be telling people how to have sex in big blazing text, but porn does weigh on what millions of people think of as "sexy" and "desirable".

I don't see how you can deny that people are influenced by the things they see around them: be it porn, movies, music, nature, family, or whatever. If it's not through what they read, experience, or watch, then how do *you* think people make up their minds about things? You could probably win the Nobel Prize if you find a way to refute everything that has been established in the fields of psychology and sociology, so please, let me in on your insights into the human mind.


The "sexual problems" in our world are too multifaceted to boil down to saying that the "solution" is using condoms in porn. I'm not saying that at all. I believe that porn does a great deal of good when it comes to getting people off and having fun, being an outlet for people who can't otherwise express their sexualities, making people see that others share their kinks, and igniting more personal passion or passion in relationships. I'm not the anti-porn crusader that you try to peg me as, but I feel like our industry does have problems that should be discussed and critiqued from within the industry. Porn can be better, it can make us money, it can provide people with awesome entertainment, and it is entirely possible to do so in a socially responsible way without that much more effort.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree because I have no interest in continuing this conversation. Obviously neither of us is going to be able to change the other's viewpoint and I have better things to do. Frankly, I think you're in the wrong business.

As for your question about my selling fantasy and then asking if that meant I condoned child rape, you're being ridiculous and offensive. Good day.

If you think convincing me is tough, maybe you should have a chat with Larry Flynt.

"Market testing -- and conventional wisdom -- tells us that films that feature actors wearing condoms don’t sell. That means that forcing condom use on the industry is more likely to have a negative rather than positive effect on HIV protection. It would drive the industry underground or out of state to where there is no testing, let alone a condom requirement. The net result would surely be more HIV infections."

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/break...ry.asp?ID=2122

Way to address all my points.

I might not be in the majority, but I make a note to not do business with people who openly advocate "anything to turn a profit", because who knows where you people draw the line. I find it perfectly sound and reasonable to ask if you would promote "fantasy" child-raping erotica, because from your criminal mentality, it seem like you would if there was money in it for you. I also wouldn't put it past you to rip off affiliates and customers if you're all about making money and rejecting all senses of business ethics. It's a slipperly slope, being an outspoken champion of making a buck for yourself at any price, and I'm surely not the only one paying attention to your posts.

That's fine. I think you're the kind of person who is purposefully ruining this business and giving honest and ethical adult business owners a bad name.

I find it offensive to see you peddling your arrogant, dangerous, amoral me-first philosophy that making money is more important than anything else in this world.

Anyone have a rubber to put on a cucumber?

I have a used one if you want to borrow it...I last used it in 1996 :D

Here is a start for
Condom Less On
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A young couple with a box of condoms proceeded to burn some rubber.

When they were finished, she discovered that there were only six condoms remaining in the box of 12, so she asked him, "What happened to the other five condoms?"

His nervous reply was, "Er, I masturbated with them."

Later, she then approached her male confidant friend, told him the story, and then asked him, "Have you ever done that?"

"Yeah, once or twice," he told her.

"You mean you’ve actually masturbated with a condom before?" she asked.

"Oh," he said, "I thought you were asking if I’d ever lied to my girlfriend."

I really wish more women would get involved with the application of a condom. It's sexy for the babe to put it on the man because it's a sign that she WANTS it. Woohoo! ;) As simple as they seem, condoms can be a total pain in the ass to put on. I find it very difficult to maintain an erection while pausing to put a rubber on. A womens help in that matter is pretty sexy. (Luckily, I usually have sex with women who are even more diseased than me and the condom becomes a moot point. |dizzy| )

cooless Getting back to your original reason for starting this thread: I have not seen any posts from you before so am I correct in thinking that you are new to the adult WM business? If so I would NOT recommend starting with a link list type site, as although they seem like an easy option they are not, you have to get plenty of traffic coming in (several thou per day) before you will get a reasonable amount of people posting. (Most newbies assume you get your traffic from the recips that are put on sites you post, but that is a Catch 22 situation, you don't get the traffic until you get sites posted, and you won't get sites posted until you get the traffic). Traffic management takes experience, you need to get a lot of practise in this before you start on any kind of link list.

What I suggest is that you start off going down the free site route (see other threads for details on how to do this). You may find that eventually you make enough money out of this, but if you do not, then once you have plenty of free sites you can set up your link list, and get start up traffic to it by adding a link to it on all your free sites.

One big advantage of going down the freesite route is that most of your traffic will be from link lists, so your domain name will not be important (you could be www.christians-against-porn.com for all it mattered).

Criminal mentality? It's a crime now to not promote condom use on a website? You need to get a grip.

You also need to start watching your words carefully. I'm perfectly willing to debate an issue with anyone, but you are now making personal attacks and libelous ones at that.

No, I do not condone child rape and don't have a fucking clue what that has to do with what I said. I said I was promoting fantasies, I never said I promoted illegal fantasies.

You wouldn't put it past me to rip off affiliates? What a moronic statement. How in the hell do you segue from an argument about the issue of promoting condoms on a porn site to calling me a criminal and accusing me of being unethical?

In another thread you're conding linking to a site that promotes prostitution, but you have the ovaries to tell me I have a criminal menatlity because I don't see the point in using a porn site to raise public awareness about condoms? |huh

p.s. I noticed that you sell condoms on at least one of your sites so it looks to me like you're arguing your position from one of profit and not altruism.

You have some serious reading comprehension problems.

Where did I claim that's it's illegal to feature bare-backing in porn? (Simple-minded people can never seem to grasp the difference between saying that something is an ethical question and saying that something is illegal.)

I did not call you a criminal.

I said that believing in casting aside ethics in the name of benefiting yourself financially is a *criminal mentality*.

Thank you for clarifying that there are some things you wouldn't want to make money off of, you never did in the past. If you take the position that you sell "fantasies" and don't believe in any sense of ethics, it's really not a stretch to ask you if you would promote "fantasy" CP. Nor is it a stretch to wonder if someone who's a crusader for amorality would rip people off.

Again, reading comprehension. EmpressM is not a hooker, she is a dominatrix. She has not been charged with a crime. She is not charging for sex. From what I can gather, she is charging people for legal BDSM sessions. Your point makes no sense.

Oh, look how clever you are, clicking on my sig to dig up "dirt" on me.

Where on earth do you keep getting the idea that I'm some wide-eyed crazy who is against making money? I have, in fact, stated in this thread, repeatedly, that I am here to make money, just not at any cost. READING COMPREHENSION. There is a world of grey area between running a non-profit social justice project that aims to benefit all humankind and being a sleazy money-grubber who would do anything for a buck. You can't seem to grasp that, though.

I know that these ethics discussions befuddle people like you, but let me repeat myself one more time.

I am not against making money. I am not in favor of the government passing a law to force condom use in porn. Nor do I even think that all porn should have to feature condoms. I am *for* running an adult business that has just a modicum of social responsibility when it comes to the messages it sends.

Do you see me picking on every person here who links to sites that show condom-free porn? No, because I only have an interest in picking on people like yourself who want to be outspoken champions of not having ethics as pornographers. Condoms in porn are just a drop in the bucket, as I've said, but it's a nice gesture, a positive thing to promote, and a responsible thing to sexualize. If such a relatively small ethical discussion stimulates such a rabid amoral response from you, lordy knows how you would deal with bigger issues.

I do my best to help in that department, except that I don't like the "sexy" cliche of putting them on with my mouth- yuck! (Which could also be a bad thing, since oily products of any sort, even lipstick/chapstick, should not make contact with condoms, as it destroys the latex.)

I don't carry them since the company utilizes milk in their manufacturing process, but you might want to check out the neat http://www.hotrodcondoms.com for getting a rubber on quickly.

I say fuck safe sex. There are too many morons walking this earth (me included). Deadly STD's are natures way of thinning out the herd and rightfully so. If you are stupid enough in today’s world to bang someone the first night without wrapping yourself then you get what you deserve. Not to make this a long post, but I was talking to a friend the other day about my first entrance into the military. During our medical testing they split up the men and women. Then later that day we saw the girls in a group of about 12, and then later we saw them again in a group of about 7. We asked the medical officer what happened to the girls (figuring they failed something) and were told 40% of the females test positive for some kind of STD and didn't even know they had it. Stupidity is like herpes, no one wants it, most people have some form of it, hiding it is hard as hell and it is handed down to your offspring. In the words of Willy Wonka “GOOD DAY SIR!!”

That's brilliant, I like the "only stupid stupid-heads get something as stupid as an STD" argument, especially since you seem to be arguing against condom use *period*. If a person's intellect was what determined whether or not they got STIs (some of which manifest no symtoms and/or are impossible to test for in males), you'd be 6 feet under.

(loud, two-finger whistle)
Ladies & gentlemen, this thread has really gotten off topic.

FurryGirl- You really do have some very valid points. Unfortunately the delivery of said points obscures them. A lighter approach might make it easier to get your message through and understood.

Hammer- As someone representing a resource and information portal for industry types, shouldn't you be a little more open minded to people? Especially in discussions about areas you are unfamilliar with. A good educator listens keenly and is receptive to new ideas.