You were far more diplomatic than I would have been. |thumb

The reply that immediately came to my mind was, "Don't open your mouth just to change feet."

LB - you're painting with a very big brush on this. I am emotionally attached in a ridiculous manner to a lot of my sites (this board included) and I have a ton of great business relationships.

I think the main points on all this is that you don't have to have NATS or MPA or whatever to run a successful business AND having one of them does not mean that your program is better than one that uses the CC processor's tools.

Add me to the chorus! |angry|

Some of us don't want to foster more than "a handful of good business relationships"... as that is about the limit of decent reliable people in this biz, and probably all we need.

DD

I would go as far to say that programs that don't use NATS or MPA are better. As an affiliate, I used to love the bells and whistles. I really did. But as time goes on and I anaylze my sales trends, I see consistancy in the sales/rebills I make with CCBill programs and odd behaviour amongst the programs I'm affialiated with that use other tools. That's all I'm going to say.

Disclaimer: The preceding text is opinion and is based on one man's experience. The author realizes that opinion is dangerous when it conflicts with the opinions of others and the author is thusly willing to compromise by saying, "that's too fucking bad". |catfight| If you feel the preceding text is implying something that was not overtly stated, then you are probably a lot fucking smarter than you look. PS - The author is behind you, looking through the window.

"My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved; do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others"- Marquis De Sade|thumb

Perhaps, but what if the "experiences" of others were similarly fashioned? And If you don't mind me asking UW,What is the time frame you speak of? People can be struck by lighting or maybe win the lottery, but having those events occur twice to the same person decreases the probability exponentially, and likewise with consecutive occurences.

I completely agree with the last three posts and am currently attempting to foster some extemely high quality business relationships myself. I only have a handful right now, but I'm in it for the long haul, so I guess time will allow for more.

I can accept that. I was just voicing my on topic opinion ... I didn't realise I would get lynchmobbed for it. |huh

I have had zero experience with running a program thus far in my 4 months in the biz, but I am deeply curious why some of the veterans here are not particularly fond of nats and other recently introduced processors.|confused|


So the question begs itself, what are the direct comparisons between the old standbyes and the new processors?

And what data is there to qualify the answers? (i.e. proof)

First a little clarification. NATS, MPA3, etc are not processors, they are comprehensive sponsor program scripts, most of which are capable of utilizing multiple processors.

The biggest issue that I have with NATS and MPA3 is that the affiliate admin isn't the most user friendly in some areas. Retrieving hosted galleries and hosted free sites can be a major hassle if you want more than one or two at a time. Stats are pretty good, but could be better. I'm sure others will have a few things to add.

I think you're getting bashed a bit because you opinion seems to be that unless you use NATS or MPA or whatever, your program is not as legit/good as those that do.

I think everyone would take a program that converts/retains & uses CCBill over one that doesn't convert/retain & uses the fancy stuff :)

I never meant for anyone to get so defensive in this thread.

I would however, like to point out something that has maybe been missed in all of this. Purely using CCBill's affiliate system rather than your own independant system is limiting your program's growth. You cannot use any other processor. Your hands are tied.

Not once did I say that one program might be better than another based on any of this. The question here is about growth and flexibility.

Good thread on many levels!

Amen to that. I have what I consider good sponsors using CCBill and others using their own system. What matters to me is their conversions and affiliate support, I can handle rest with either system.

That said, I do wish CCBill would have breakdown by site. I have a great new sponsor that has two sites, I'm making sales but I'm not sure where the sales are coming from (freesites? blogs?) or even which sites are making the sales (of the two sponsor's sites).

To be honest, when I'm promoting a sponsor I don't really take into consideration whether its NATS or CCBILL or whatever. If it converts and has the tools I need to promote, thats what I'm concerned with.

And on the sponsor end of it, we use CCBILL, we're doing well, and don't feel a need to go to something else unless we decide to add cascading billing. Otherwise CCBILL's affiliate admin does the job just fine :)

This is interesting to us as we are at this point exactly as a fairly new programme ...
We intend to stay solely with CCbill for the future as we have looked into options and we cant see any value changing

I have enjoyed this thread as well Chris :) I have alot of clients that ask me the same original question you had. I am happy to refer them to this thread now, as there was alot of great advice and opinions.

Thanks Kacy... |waves|

To answer the original question, I would say when adding a second processor. And I would agree that NATS, or MPA, isn't necessary in itself. The admin and affiliate features are nice to have, but it's just window dressing without cascading processing.

This is a great thread, and a subject where I can give my 2 cents and have them worth more perhaps:-)

Going with the original question, when starting an affiliate program your focus should first be on the sites in the program, if you have sites that convert then affiliates will promote you regardless of the back end you use.

I think it’s extremely important for programs to use a third party back end and here’s my reasoning (I cannot say one company nats/mpa/riverstyx/X3 is better then the other as I’ve only used nats and can only comment on their back end)

As a program owner I think having a third party software can only help you in building your business and you should budget it in to your start up costs. Sure there are the features that benefit affiliates, stats, access to content and link codes etc. But as an owner of an affiliate program you should want to have as detailed stats as possible. I find it extremely useful to see from where my affiliates are making their sale, it helps me support them better. When an affiliate signs up to you’re program you want to know as much information as possible to better help them with the promotion of your sites.

I find it much easier to add hosted promotional material to our program using the nats back end, and when promoting other sponsors I love the options to dump link codes in the format I chose.

I’m aware that many of the features offered by these affiliate back end software companies can be done with some scripting and coding. I sure as hell am not able to code it so having the option of a turn key solution really has helped me grow my business.

I like the fact I have access to my affiliates addresses, it made it possible for me to send them X-mas cards last year.

Btw Emma, You can set the min payout to whatever you like, that isn’t an issue.
If anyone is worried about a sponsor shaving, you shouldn’t promote them no matter what they use for billing, stats or hosting, use common sense here.

In conclusion :-) you do not need any third party affiliate back end to make a success of you sites and affiliate program but in my eyes it makes managing the whole program much easier and has helped us in being more productive.

wow it's so much easier to just type "I'd hit it" LOL

Agreed, but I've never heard anyone accuse CCBill of doing any shaving.

That said, shaving can be done many ways, and most of them DO NOT involve using the backend software.

CCbill doesn't shave, but anyone who owns a website that uses CCBill as a biller can change links, have leaks on their tour, or find may other ways to skim off top.

I think these days the vast majority of programs spend their energy building their business and supporting affiliates, not finding ways to shave their partners.

As a very new program owner (less than a week), I would like to know what I can do as a program owner to gain the trust of the affiliates. I come to the adult world from the mainstream ecommerce world. To me, there is no gain by cheating an affiliate. Paying affiliates for what they do is a cost of doing business, just like buying advertising or paying your light bill. The only thing you can accomplish by cheating your business associates is damaging your reputation.

I can tell you as a program owner why I chose to go with NATS:

Because I have the same fears that you have - If an affiliate sends in fraudulent joins, gets paid and then suddenly I am struck with a great number of chargebacks and credits, it could cripple my ability to stay in business.

Because I only have so many hours in a day - The features in NATS that allow me to create the hosted ad tools, etc. saves me time. If i save time, i can do more. Using NATS gives me the ability to give my webmasters the tools they need faster, and managed in a way that is easy and flexible.

Because I don't shave - Now, I guess anyone can just say that, but it's just not part of my character to cheat someone. Your reputation is all you have in business. If you don't have a good one, you have nothing.

All that being said, if anyone is interested in signing up, feel free to visit the site at Frogbucks.com and I'll make you this promise: If we ever cross paths, be it in my hometown, at a show or anywhere, you are free to take a look at your account through my admin.

If I'm not mistaken, you can come in and create a link dump of every gallery from within NATS. I don't know if I have this feature turned on or not, as I am still loading the program with galleries, but I am certain that you can do this. You just choose the separator,then download the dump.

another huge reason I went with NATS. CCBILL is fine, although I think their fees are over the top. Because of that, I hope to move away from ccbill in the future to a merchant account. I was billing several hundred thousand a month in mainstream, but getting an adult processing merchant account with an american bank is more work than it's worth for a startup (you cant have a webcam, you cant have this, you cant do that, etc) so unless you are doing $100K plus per month in adult with a 1-2 year track record, you move into something like ccbill. But I also want the flexibility to provide paycom and other billers so that sales are better, affiliates are happier because sales are better and my girlfriend doesn;t leave me because we have to move into a cardboard box.

My biggest problem with NATS, or any other similar program, is the fact that I don't have an ounce of trust in most of you rotten skimming cocksuckers who employ it. A program is not evil. The bastards who use it to cheat their affiliates very well may be.

And the first one of you fucks who replies with "do you have any proof" is going to recieve a solid FUCK YOU in return. I have a voodoo doll and some rusty pins here waiting for you, wise ass.

I'd LOVE to see someone create a simple cascading script which doesn't allow the user to do a damn thing with it. No tampering with cookie expirations or any of that shit. It doesn't need to create or record stats. I'll gladly use the processors' stats. I prefer getting a singlecheck from processor - I DON'T WANT YOU FUCKING WITH MY MONEY! All a cascading program needs to do is cascade. That's all. Fuck your bells and whistles and indecipherable linking structure.

And here's another thing, now that I'm pissed and ranting for no obvious reason - why is it that CCBill can send thousands and thousands of small checks out every single fucking week with a minimum payout of only $25, but sponsors, who send out a lot fewer checks, demand a minimum payout of $100 - and then only want to send checks out once or twice a month. Rotten, no good, cheap ass, lazy fucks. That's what you are! And how the hell am I supposed to reach a $100 payout now that my conversions have mysteriously plummeted ever since you installed that new cascading solution? Which you, by the way, all but guaranteed would INCREASE MY GODDAMNED CONVERSIONS. You simple-minded lying fucks should be fed HIV-infected maggots for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Thank you for your time.
Enjoy your weekend. Drive safe. |thumb