Follow the url trail as you go through the sites. It's pretty easy to see the difference.

One loads and one doesn't.. pretty simple to see why Cleo gets listed..

|waves|Cleo

DD

One doesn't seem to see the need to use a font?

One has horrible custom recips?

One has a warning that was copied from a groupsex/orgy site?

One uses grammar & words that only an automatic translation program would use?

One is on a server (or on the other side or a router) that keeps going down when I try to look at other pages on the site/domains?

One has a 2257 page that:
was copied from Fetish Hits?
has meta tags?
uses a font?

One shares a server with Harrypotteronline.us?

One was built by a very respected member of this board, which means you picked on the wrong shemale free site? :D

Are any of those correct?

This is a good reasons, but they are subjective and you spend a relatively big time to catch them. Prime cost of the deep site checking is pretty high. Except grammar, there is no serious and visible differences.

Both sites loads fine from me and both of them is ugly (sorry Cleo).

One of the problem in LL industry: we can't surely separate good and bad FS.

What is a good FS?
How we measure creativenes and content originality?
Do we remember all content in our LL to prevent oversaturation?

Marc said, he like to accept good handmade sites and don't like autogenerated spammy sites. Do you really know, how much "good handmade" sites you accepting every day is a result of relatively good automated process?

Do you really think I would spend as much time reviewing a site or going that in depth on a regular review? All reviewers should be looking at the site & if they come across a problem, reject the site then & there. There's no need to go any further into a site that has bad grammar. Click the reject button & move on to the next review.

The only reason I did an in-depth "review" of that site was to prove a point.


That is a pretty big problem - maybe not in your community, but it is in mine. That & the site not loading for some parts of the world are two very big reasons why that site is not listed.

Poor english isn't good for sure, but surfers don't read, they preffer scan and watch. They do not spend their attention too much on the texts except the text in the link list.

I stay on my point: there is no solid criteria, what is a good FS.

Before I start-MB great post!! |waves|

I was going to stay out of these discussions and just sit back and see what comes of it but I have a question.

How does a new site format (v1.5) solve any of the problems with submitters auto generating and submitting spammy pieces of crap? That model can be abused just like the current model so aren't we back to square one? Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't get it.

v1.5 can't solve all problems I mentioned in my latest postings. This is why it v1.5, not v2.0.

v 1.5 can solve following problems:

1) Serious growth of FS usability.

2) Potential to decrease mirrors is link site owners will clearly state: there is no limits for recips number. I heard, many submitters don't use more than 15 recips per one FS.
There is no big difference with classic FS , but on the main page you have much more usefull content and relatively big amount or recips will not look like link farm.
If you place 40 recips on the classic FS warning page and add only one link leading to content, it's a joke for the surfer and he know, it called "link farm".
If you place 40 recips on the main page, where you have galleries, banners and their descriptions, you can make them more usable.

3) v1.5 have good potential to be v2.0
Lets suppose, webmaster will add another set of galleries to the currently listed v1.5 site and update his site info in the link site listings?
Yes, it looks like updated gallery blog, but it directly lead us to the small portfolio of well managed and frequently updated free sites.
Submiters lost reason to generate new sites every day, they find the reason to update their current sites and focus on their quality.
Google find the reason to classify these updated sites as good site with some incoming links dynamics.
Such site after 10 updates will contain at least 12 galleries, depending of number galleries in each update (12 for +1 gallery/update, 22 for +2 gallery/update, 32 for +3 gallery/update).
The gallery blog (glog) is a good format to solve all problems I mentioned before, but nobody ready techically at this time to try this format except blog directories. They ise it and they gain traffic and SE positions.

So basicly you want to transform free sites into tgps?
Despite it makes no sense to me.. how would you list to that kind of sites?
Many webmasters have troubles to write description fitting two galleries... you think they will be able to write good description matching 10 or 15? (whats more those galleries would not exist at the time of submitting)

I guess after a while you will have a bunch of links with totally misleading descriptions... and since you care that much about surfers I think its not what you would like to achive..

I'm going to start this post by saying that I've figured out that Kit's v2.0 is a HUB :D

We know.

Meaning the surfer's experience is easier? Yeah, going from 3 clicks down to 2 clicks is a MASSIVE improvement on the surfing experience.

1st off, you speak as if there's not links to other things on the warning page in the 1st place. Most have a link to the main page as well as a 2257 page, ad links, etc. Smart ones have a link to the root of the domain where they have some sort of HUB

2nd, you think that adding 1 more link (subtract link to main page, add 2 links to gallery pages) will take away the page's "link farm" status? One more link = no link farm?

HUB

So the submitter adds links to 2 new gallery pages each day? That's called a HUB. (actually, it's your own personal TGP, but that fits into the definition of a HUB)

That'd be updating their HUB

Smart webmasters update their HUB(s) every time they build something new - galleries, free sites, blogs, link farm, tgp's, link list, etc - all these things are linked off their HUB(s) As far as incoming links, most webmasters trade links with other HUBs - both their own & those of other webmasters.

You have not solved anything. You have eliminated the standard Free Site & replaced it with the existing HUB practice that most smart webmasters already have.

Way to go! You're going to allow webmasters to submit to you their HUB(s) |thumb

PS - useful has 1 L, not 2 - you keep setting off my spell checker when I quote your posts

Nice discussion...

Now I think I'll get back to work making my four page ugly free sites with good spelling and grammar that get most of their sales off of the warning page and main page.

Why do text ads work so well if nobody is reading them?

Can't say it is true or not but saw this shit on internet "fields":
If this is true, then I see no reason to fuck a submitter for his mistakes, cause If surfer want to read the text, he will understand the main idea in every case :D

And what does it have to do with grammar?

I actually have no idea what it is you are trying to say.

Fields like in these fields?

Now that I have seen the site.... all of the above problems with that "other site" are clear, as listed above...

.. but the biggest difference that stands out like dogs balls.. is the one site has 'character' and one does not.. Character may not sell(thats up to Cleo) but it sure as hell makes it clear that one site is "more listable" than the other.

DD

No one is "fucking the submitter". There have been standards for all sites submittted, since sites started being submitted...

I don't believe you guys believe you have some INALIENABLE RIGHT to be accepted and we are fucking you.... Fuck off..

The PRIVILEGE of being accepted at a serious and long standing LinkList is earnt and means you need to meet a certain standard. If you don't then you won't be listed.... that is just fundamental.

DD

I have to agree with that statement 100%, it takes time to earn the trust, and you better keep your standards high. |thumb

For the sake of argument. How many times then should this freesite be updated. 2? 3? 4 times? Because after that it's going to sink back down and go stale in the SEs.

It sounds more like you should create a new directory section of HUBS or something to that effect. That when they are updated maybe they gain new life with in the directory. Like there is a new listing of HUB sites page and then there is an update page that features the hubs that have updated. Then in the category lists of the HUBS directory instead of a NEW flashing text next to the name it would have UPDATED flashing or whatever next to it. Like my directory would have a sea hag that would cackle next to it to denote that the site was updated.
(research shows cackling sea hags get mad clicks.)

I for one can't wait until freesite v3.0 where the freesite is taking submissions and is hooked up to a database so that hourly it can perform updates and the site is dynamic and responds to click patterns and includes a recip table that is tied to a toplist script so that it ranks the recips depending on either how productive the traffic to the freesite was in sending out surfers to the tour or maybe at the top it displays the recips based on hits in and on the main page it displays them based on productivity. Then it can interface with your usb port so you can plug in handjobber 3000 with smooth 18 yr old hand grip action that syncs with video playback.

rule 3453: harry palm goo master interface is not acceptable.

bah.|bullshit|

ok I'm back....
Seriously though it really comes across as though you want the freesite to just be more than a freesite. If you want to list more dynamic style sites that feature more features and pages that are updated on occasion then I think creating a new style section of your site to list these would be the way to go. Not calling it freesite anything would be wise as to avoid any kind of confusion. Possibly not even a HUB style name like i suggested above. A whole new name.


|cheers|

One site - one link. Each update up the link to the updated status.

The link will always describe and lead to the latest update. When webmaster update his site in the listing, he can submit description update.

Yes, it will seriously increase FS usability. Each additional click between entrance page and content decrease FS usability.

Yes, it's a HUB in your terms.

Yes, I want to work with their HUBs as one object.
Galleries set + their Descriptions became one post which HUB webmaster can post to my LL and update his previous post. May be I'll store last 10 posts, may be not. There is difficult to say right now.

Surfers still trust the text links more than banners, but I don't think they definately read more than 10 words in most cases. Sometimes surfers read. IMO all surfers want to know about FS is type of action before click to the link on LL: "Blonde suck black cock", than surfer go to the FS and watch pics or vids, nothing more in most cases. Yes, somebody still read texts on these ugly pages, probably LL reviewers and 1-2% of LL surfers.

That's what I want... less clicks to get to the free stuff so to get past those annoying ads because I'm providing a free masturbation visual aid service. |thumb

:D

You know I've been reading this thread and trying to comprehend everything and this little voice in my head keeps saying "why the fuck do we want to make it easier to give shit away...?"

Great post Marc....I'm going to start working on this business model...

Isn't that what Persian Kitty is doing now, you can update or change listings and descriptions to match?

Are you going to have a cap on the amount of free sites submitted so people will update more often?