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Toby - be honest :) Did you know that, when posting:
You have the option to not show your sig? You can turn off smileys? You can attach a file? You can rate a thread? You can choose to subscribe to a thread? All these "Additional Options" are located below the "Submit Reply" button when you reply to a thread :) |
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A few years back Ibill and a few AVS had this practice of doing the same thing. If I recall correctly they made the text with the pre-checks far smaller to make sure no one would have a chance of reading them. It's certainly a very questionable way of making money imho. I would never promote a sponsor if I knew they were playing such tricky games. |
I don't really have much to offer here except that I am in agreement with Toby. Having the pre-checks below the submit button and/or below the fold is deceptive. The entire purpose of asterisks and fine print is for the purpose of deception, just like their placement on the page AND the fact that they are PRE-CHECKED in the first place. There's plenty of room for the true costs to be right there with the pre-checks and there's plenty of space for additional offers at the top of the form instead of below the submit button.
Professional marketers study advertising statistics. They know that HUGE amounts of surfers do not scroll below the fold for further information (only 10% did earlier in this decade) or read fine print. Sure, we webmasters realize how dangerous it is to place trust in sponsor programs, but a horny surfer doesn't know what we know, nor is he or she in their correct state of mind, at least not if we did our job correctly. ;) Is it the surfers fault for being lazy or ignorant? Perhaps, but that doesn't make it ethical for a program to take advantage of that ignorance. Ok, I have to go to my telemarketing job now and see if I can sell some supplemental life insurance to senior citizens who aren't eligible for the benefits, but at least they can afford it. |thumb |
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Hey - I wanna put the "Enter" link above the LL recip table on all my Free Sites and make sure the table starts at say the 800th pixel from the top. Of course, all my adds will be within the first 768 pixels. |couch|
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BTW - I completely understand what everyone is saying, I just don't think it's that big of a deal. Consoles, on the other hand, pop regardless of any boxes being checked & that annoys the living shit out of me. The world of advertising & marketing lives off stupid people. If it's on sale 2 for $5, you'll buy 2 even if you only need 1, which costs $2.50. I do this EVERY time I go to the grocery store. Why? Because I'm a dummy. |
I only wish we could have cancellation policies like AOL has ;-)
In all fairness, affiliates can choose who they promote. If they choose to not promote us because of pre-checked cross sales, I'll wish them well and tell them to go ahead and promote another sponsors. Those that love the checks they receive from us and the size of them as well as everything we offer are more than welcome to keep continuing to send us traffic. Everyone has the right to decide who they will conduct business and who they will conduct business with. No one should let people on a message board dictate to them how they should run their business. They need to decide for themselves and even though Toby and I probably disagree, at least he's willing to state publicly his intentions to pull links and really, let's see if he does. I would never tell anyone how to conduct business nor should anyone listen to me in such regards (unless they want to send to us and earn big checks ;-)). |
I tell people how to conduct their business all the time & everyone loves me! |couch|
Banning a sponsor is BIG, regardless of how big your site is. I've only done it twice: Epic Cash & Ultra Cash - and I think everyone can agree that I had VERY valid reasons for each. I completely understand what Toby's doing. I sometimes wish there was an option to turn it off & take a lower payout like programs do with consoles. But, this is a BIG part of the PPS business model & I'm a PPS kinda guy |thumb |
Toby - before I forget, great topic & I love the anger.
It's also perfect timing for a long board discussion seeing as it's Monday. If this thread started on a Friday, no one would remember it Monday morning :) |
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Brazzers and AFF were already on my banned sponsor list for other unsundry activities, and I regularly decline submits promoting those sponsors. As I noted in a reply to this same topic on another board, I don't go on the war path often, but when I do I neither fight fair nor take any prisoners. |
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I understand what he's doing as well and truly do wish him well...I don't begrudge anyone conducting business the way they want. I also admire the fact he's arguing his point without resorting to name calling or anything like that. We could use more of that in this industry. |
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I just showed a join page to my 22 year old son. I asked him if he were buying how he would go about it.
He looked at the sign up page that had one pre-checked box and one unchecked box. He looked the page over for a minute. “I thought you wouldn’t have to buy porn”? he said |loony| “Would you please throw me a bone here and pretend your buying it” I said He grabbed the mouse and unchecked the pre-checked box and checked the one that had been unchecked (it was less expensive) “I would probably get this one but not both” I asked him if he thought the pre-checked box was deceptive “No I can see it right there . . . but if it were unchecked I probably wouldn’t have noticed either of them” Let me add he was not coached and the boxes were in full view without scrolling at all. My take! There is a line between “suggestive selling” and “sneaky selling” |
From a similar discussion on another board. Reposted with the authors permission.
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Epic Cash. Shit, I can type Epic Cash. Wasn't there a time when I couldn't type Epic Cash? I would just get **** **** or ********? Okay, I know I am bringing nothing to the thread here but I just wanted to say it.
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I believe that the people who dont see them when joining and find out later will become a non joiner later
I've looked at some and most are visible... IMO if your worried about it, educate your surfers about it on your site on some pages of it, take care of your surfers and hopefully they will take care of you by keep joining your pay links cross sales are a way of life for the PPS programs, if they hide them then it is not acceptable... IMO it's far worse to have link trades with other sites that have those free join email sites that have aggressive popups on there tours |
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I agree that pre-checked boxes under the fold is shady at best. I would think that anyone who gets screwed by those has the sense to contact their CC company and get their money back. Next you would have a lot of charge backs and then the companies would stop - right? I wonder why this isn't happening - maybe not enough people fall for this trick? |
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I process just under $1,000,000 in credit cards annually in my mainstream businesses, and chargebacks are rare, but the merchant account companies hate them - they cost way more in time and effort than the CC companies will ever recover so if there truly were too many, we'd see a change in the rules. |
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Funny when Toby posted this on another forum I asked if he got the Link List guys opinion on it. I figured you guys would have a lot more piss and vinegar then TGP guys and sure enough...lol
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Real situation, hand on dick, trying to join quickly while typing with one hand. There's a good chance you might not notice pre-checked cross sales below the submit button, especially if he's a cheapskate and buying a trial. If someone is buying a trial, it essentially means they want something on the cheap, not an extra $80 in passes. That guy will never buy another membership after that experience. With all that said though, I do support Toby, but at the same time realize the inevitability of the situation. Sponsors do this because they’re catering to what some affiliates want and they have to keep up with the Joneses. I personally think pre-checked cross sales below the submit is shady as shit, it hurts the business, but it just gets added onto the very long list of things that hurt the industry. I mean when you see a site like XNXX, a once fine traffic source, turning into a tube site giving away 30 minute videos…umm…yeah, you can see as an industry we don’t always do what’s best in preserving what we have. |
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So when you ban someone from your Link List do they go, "Gee, GreenGuy was completely right, it's all my fault and I'll suffer the consequences of not reading" or will they go, "GreenGuy is a dick" 9 out of 10 banned people would probably go with the Dick line, even if you were completely right. When I reject galleries or ban people, the submitter that screwed up thinks I'm 100% wrong. Whatever, in that situation you can give them the one finger salute because there's 500 more people waiting to replace that one. However, it's not applicable when it comes to potential customers. Whether it's their responsibility or not, how are they going to feel when they get an $80 bill for a trial membership that they thought they were buying. You can say what's right and wrong till the cows come home, that surfer / customer, is going to think he's right and got ripped off. Unfortunately paying porn customers in this age of free porn on the net, is not so easily replaced. |
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