Bill -
I agree with you that straight html pages are the way to go.

But maybe I missed something, I thought Dravyk's question and further reply indicated that he wanted to be able to choose, switch and test sponsors in an efficient manner.

I believe that a well written program with banner and text rotations is the way to go to simply test them out.

Though the problem now will come down to trust.
I would not suggest submitting a gallery or free site without emailing them first.
But if he has the relationship with the folks he submits to, and they know what his intentions are, then I don't see any problems with shortening the testing time.

Have you sat in the chair of a TGP reviewer lately?

For each acceptable listing from a 'new' submitter (not people who are repeat submitters and might have a password), so for every 'new' submitter which you can list and don't have to ban three days later, there are some 30-40 which you have to reject straight away because they didn't read the rules, they change their pages even before you get to review them, they send you obviously stolen content (like sponsorA on the images, sponsorB in their advertising), etc. And for every 'new' submitter you can consider a trusted submitter there were another 5 which despite all caution slipped through and you blacklist them a few days later...
IT'S FRUSTRATING |pcsucks|

As far as I know the majority of TGPs don't allow ANY script on galleries anymore, not even counter script - FULL STOP
If you have a different idea you are welcome to start your own TGP following your rules...

Seems the friend or "partner" thing is the only way then I guess.

I would have thought maybe 5% cheaters and 95% honest, but if 5 cheat out of every 6, I guess that flips it to 15% honest and 85% are cheaters. I had no idea it was that severe. |sad| ... No wonder everyone is looking at me so oddly.

Guess being a links list owner, and not a TGP owner or viewer, my over five years of experience has shown the opposite, where maybe 1 in 20 will redirect their freesites or add console hell after submission.

As to the issue of templates galleries, I have to go with Bill and disagree with DareUTwo. At the risk of sounding spammy, a little imagination and a script capable of giving one great freedom with user-defined variables (like Content God) one can make a wide variation using the same template, as well as creating a large number of different templates.

Just this week I've finally gotten around to playing with CG for my own TG submissions use and have variables I put into my gallery templates that can control multiple colors, different sponsor text, and and much more. With different content, different colors, different text, a single template can be made to look *very* different every single time.

Even so, am working to make up 10 templates, so by the time the first one gets used again, and then altered with the variables, it should keep even the most discriminating TGP reviewer and adult surfer very happy. But yes, you do need to put some effort and creativity into it, and yes you need a script that allows you to do on-the-fly alterations in order to achieve it.

It's not this bad in real proportion of dishonest webmasters, just the cheats are mostly (not all!) from Russia or Eastern Europe, working in groups and bombarding TGPs with sometimes hundreds of autosubmitted galleries every day - so a reviewer has to sift through all of them to find the gems...

Hence you would want to have several filters in your submission software to keep this proportion as low as possible...

I would accept banner or text script rotated galleries if it was
submitted by someone I knew...

I PREFER that people I know or people that are REGULAR
posters here on this board that want to submit a gallery
to me - - - instead shoot off a quick eMail to me and get
a partner access to automatically have their submits posted
directly onto my TGP... I have way to many in my que
waiting approval and I don't want those of people I know
to sit there waiting and waiting... I'd rather you be able
t o get your gallery UP there ASAP...

all galleries are reviewed... it's just that partners galleries
are reviewed a day or so after they are already UP...

I have never had to yank a partners gallery back down....
(crossing my fingers that that never has to happen...)


if anyone from this board does want a partner code
and you are a regular poster on this board....
you can eMail me and copy paste this into the
subject line of your eMail:

Bell - saw the thread on gg&j's about partner submits....



in the body of your letter tell me what your screen name
is here on gg&j's....


does anyone out there have any galleries related to:

Long Hair
Fingernails
Toenails
Ugly Girls
Girls with Shaved Heads
Tattoo galleries
Pierced galleries
mature mature barfly type smoking women
mature mature barfly type smoking men
old hairy men
old hairy fat men
fat men
old old women
old old fat women
bluejean cutoffs
boots
armpits
painted bodies
wheelchair
crutches
cooking naked
christmas
halloween
in trees
in a doghouse
crawling in grass
in feathers
in nothing but gloves
in nothing but hats
naked with a plate of spagetti
or playing with spagetti...

thanks...

eMail me here: evelyn937 At LYCOS DOT com

submit here:
http://www.BellsDirectory.com/tgp



~Bell

Dravyk -
I believe Bill and I agree on the script generated pages, with straight html with solid text links being the key.
Straight html pages generated by CG or whatever program is fine by me.

I thought you were asking if TGP sites would mind if you used variables in your tgp pages(html) to test sponsors.

That, I feel, would have to be taken to each tgp you wish to be listed on because of the level of trust needed.

I've been fumbling around the testing quickly question all summer too.

I know this is a touchy subject for some so please dont take any offence but .....

when your gallery is looked at
your ads are gonna be a huge factor in that review

now you wanna change them ???

how do I know what those ads are gonna say
what sponsors your gonna use
what text
how much space the ad will take up
whats the noise ratio on the page

tgp pages are not a long term source of traffic
so why do you need to change the ads

if you wanna test stuff out then please do it with your own traffic

as far as I am concerned if anything on a page is changed
that page has to be removed from the database asap

doin reveiws is tough enough I cant be goin around lookin at gallerys twice or three times just cause you cant figure out what banners you wanna use

I'm one of those folks who *do* see galleries as long-term traffic, because I leave mine up permanently. Search engines index them, surfers going through TGP archives see them, and heck there are TGPs out there who are just this month sending me approvals for galleries I submitted in March (talk about a backlog!).
So even if you've only got 10 people a day coming in from various sources to an old gallery... 10 of those galleries would be 100 people a day, 100 old galleries would be 1,000 people a day... and every hit counts. :)

Dravyk, it's going to be amusing to watch you getting back into this part of the game. Boy I can hear the ranting now, hehe.
But more than the reviewer or TGP owner, it's the *script* that owns the TGP. Sure, the owner might not have a problem with you changing out sponsor ads - but the script will detect it and either delete it or ban you immediately. There's no reasoning with a script. :(
I would love to be able to change out ads once in a while, but with all of the rampant "our script will BAN you if it detects ANY change in your gallery" stuff going on... it really limits us.
Heck I worry about even changing ads on *free sites* these days, it's gotten so bad with the script check-delete-ban things.

The ones that drive me crazy lately are the scripts that won't take my submission because they "can't get the last-modified date of your page". I just NOW uploaded the thing and I haven't changed it since uploading it, it's brand new - and you're looking for a last modified date?? Arghh|banghead|

I tell ya, its got to be tough for submitters that dont have connections

to many tgp owners look at submits as being worthless

the cheaters and the submit scripts have really takin a toll on the tgps


my first submit was a paysite
and I linked it because I was so thrilled some one put a link back to me

Galleries can be long term traffic as I have many getting SE traffic as well as from archives. But there is no way in hell you'd be allowed at most TGPs to use a rotator in any way shape or form. Make the galleries with text mainly anyway that's designed to grab the surfer's attention.

If you're just getting back into TGP, then you better worry about even getting listed at all at this point. It's a tough market and as Tommy said if you don't know people then it's even tougher.

Tommy I was cool with your post and took no offense -- until the last line, my friend. Shows you didn't read the whole thread before you posted.

If you had, then you would know it has nothing whatsoever to do with "if one can choose a banner or not" -- it is about BUSINESS and figuring out the best converting sponsors and/or banners using the BUSINESS ANALYSIS TOOLS at hand to maximize revenue!!

Regarding the short term traffic comment a) if it is only short term traffic is that a legitimate reason it shouldn't be analyzed for best ROI (return on investment)? b) Plus as Carrie said, with search engines, it can be long-term traffic, not just short-term.

Last question, Tommy: I assume you are talking about general submissions only? You have a friends/partners exception thing for people who have built trust with you or don't you?

Again I understand what TGP owners and reivewers are all saying about general submitters it is too much a risk. I better understand that level of cheating must be tremdendous. Still, that said, it is very sad that new webmasters or webmasters people don't know have to ply stone-aged tools in the age of video cell phones all because 50 s**theads in Romania screw things up.

Carrie regards: "there's no reasoning with a script". Yeah you know I am PRO scripts ... the only script that can't be reasoned with is a badly written one. And it seems to catch cheaters, a lot of these scripts have not had the flexibility put into to them to catch cheaters AND allow honest webmasters through.

That's the "little" problem I'm having, you see -- Overkill. And that's what I'm pissed at. I know TGP owners are sick of cheaters and I don't blame them one bit!! On that, I'm totally with you and I totally see your point! It is the "can't tell the innnocent from the guilty so machine-gun them all" attitude that sucks. The "kill everyone and let God sort them out" mentality that stinks.

So pardon me for thinking there must be a better and greatly fairer way of doing things that helps the general webmaster and the TGP owner/reviewer both, but I think there must be a better way then the current "standard" that exists. That's all I'm saying.

Yep, that's what I mean, Tommy. I'm not so worried about myself. Yeah, I'm sure World Sex never heard of me and neither has Call Kelly, but I know a bunch of others that have. :)

It's the new ones that I'm bitching about/for. But again, if over time good submitters show trust, then cool.

Now I'm worried about those who do know me and who do trust other submitters over time, as to whether their scripts will allow the owners to turn off certain elements or not. That part I don't know (not first-hand knowing all the scripts out there from an admin standpoint). Hopefully those programmers were smart enough to include some kind of override or "friendly" status. I hope.

Makes two of us. :) This thread is helping me get those answers. At least some of the answers. :)

I'm using one of the more popular scripts and I can't turn it off even for my own galleries.

Damn, Cleo! That's exactly the kind of stuff I was concerned about!!

I hate BAD programming! |pissed|

Dravyk
my stuff is highly classified but to anwser your question
there are preferred submits.
but its based on a points system and points are built up over time

as a submiter builds points the script will start giving him more and more clout

points are lost and gained by the submits and habits of the webmaster if the page changes after its listed .....

its gonna react as if you are a cheater

these scripts arent ment to worry about billys or johnnys submits
they are made to quickly move thru thousands of submits

Makes good sense to me, Tommy. :)

Drav
if you have problems gettin listed at my site drop me a email :-)

Dravyk...just a thought....why not put up your own TGP and list your galleries, rotating the banners with tgp traffic that you buy to get the testing part done as quickly as possible. There are excellent traffic sellers out there that are moving the same traffic that a lot of the large TGPs get. This would get you past the test phase the quickest with no worries about scripts.

As someone mentioned there are TGPs that take 6 months to list your galleries which would throw a wrench into your idea of testing sponsors quickly. Some of the largest sites even take long periods before your gallery will show up.

I understand both sides as I know the large amounts of money that are paid to reviewers to sift through the 1000s of submits everyday, so looking for a script that take care of parts of that is just a good business decision.

Dravyk, I've got an idea for ya -
Instead of making sponsor-specific text ads or using sponsor's banner ads, use a generic banner or sales text. Just one that doesn't mention the site name.
Then rather than sending the click to a sponsor, send it to a php redirection script that will instantly bounce the surfer to whichever sponsor you like.
When you have enough traffic to sponsor A, just switch the redirect code to sponsor B so surfers get bounced over there.

In the end you're still testing conversion rates between sponsors, without worrying about getting banned and ending up like this little guy... |angry| (he's so damn cool, hehe)

Thanks, Tommy!

Linkster, I'm debating ways to do those tests (especially under the circumstances of scripts, as Cleo mentioned, that won't allow that even if owners would.)

That is very much a possibilty what you said. Obviously any TGP tossed up even a month would only give a slight idea (compared to the amounts the top 30 ones can toss in a single day.) I also agree that buying traffic for testing (via Choker, Spot Galleries, etc) is another possible (if more costly) answer.

Ok, here's a BRAND NEW question ... of those people who accept paid gallery placements, does anyone know what THOSE folks do? Do they just side-step a script completely or have scripts that allow "anything"? I've looked at some of the obvious paid galleries at some places and it seems (within reason and morals and such) that anything goes that a gallery submitted normally would never be able to do.

Here's the rub, Carrie. What you suggested is the same thing that most folks won't allow via the banner rotator. The banner rotator does the same thing. What I mean is, that has been my plan, to make niched galleries, change out the sponsor banner and the link URL on the text to test the sponsors.

While the link would not change (and so that should get by the script IF it got by the owner/reviewer) the change (as someone said earlier) in the size of the different banners would however trigger the script. Maybe. Depends on how the TGP scripts cheat function actually reads a changed page. If they do it by weight, no go, if they do it by change in HTML, a banner rotator code will work depsite the script. That's the next question to figure out. :)

Sheesh it's tough to make a buck some days. :)

I was thinking along similar lines:
I don't mind if you send the links to your own full-page ad WHICH CAN BE ROTATED! I check full-page ads and reject them if they lead into pop-up hell or open a dialer, but even permit them if they have (let's say) 2 pop-ups which can be easily closed (better than some sponsor tours...).

In the manner I'm describing, nothing would change on your gallery. Not the link, not the banner. (Remember I said use text/banners that don't mention site names - you'd need to make custom banners yourself if you insist on using banners.)

I'm getting the feeling you're wanting to test out different *banners* rather than different *sponsors*?
If so, that wouldn't work with my idea, but if testing different sponsors it would work.

PS on your paid gallery placement question, every site I've looked at that offers this has it stated right up front that your gallery, even if pre-paid, *must* still conform to the normal rules. No breaks just cuz you're paying - your 'break' is that you're guaranteed a listing and that's it. ;)

That's correct :)