Just remember, I do love ya Aly :D

Demographic Information:
The old form was fine - name, address, occupation, cc info. The rest of it is just info that no one truly needs to know. Why would anyone need to know how many sites I have? How much money I make? How much traffic I have? How much I plan to spend?

Location:
I think part of the "location" problem is that you have it in Miami in August (hurricanes & heat come to mind) and in Vegas in Jan right after the New Year - Vegas is pretty much popular all year round, but with New Years Eve being one of their high points, the time right after is of course a low point. So each convention is at a time of the year that is slow & thus, cheap. But the rates don't seem to be discounted at all. And using the travel agency of Vegas is a rip off, especially if you gamble, because they won't comp the room if you booked it thru a travel agent :(

Badge Cost:
Your explanation sounds as if you're passing off the costs to the webmasters with the new rules as far as allowing parties without booths & whatnot and that doesn't seem fair at all. And it's not like it was 4 or 5 years ago - the badge really means shit for most of the parties. We all know that you need VIP passes to get in to most of them & VIP VIP passes if you want a couple free drinks from the bars. This is NOT really AVN's fault, but it really does decrease the value of the badge.

I have another questions - seeing as the "press" gets in for free, does this site quality for this & how many free passes can I get? I have a large staff :D

Thank you Aly :)
But, over the years, I have watched the shows grow smaller and get more expensive. It's easy to see why the price goes up. You have to pay a standard price and if fewer people kick in, the ones that do have to make that up. But, there seems to be a fundamental problem of a smaller attendance. Don't you agree that point should be addressed?

On these surveys...are you really saying that people say to keep the show in Florida in the middle of August? If so, that is such a strange coincidence with the fact that there probably is not a cheaper venue large enough or a worse time in the United States.

Like I said, the biggest problem seems to be the dwindling attendance. Wouldn't you agree that if the venue was changed or even change of date would make a huge impact on that problem? That's only with Florida in August. But, perhaps a date a little further from Christmas Day would help in Vegas as well.

"After each show, all attendees with a legitimate email address on their registration receive a follow-up survey. PLEASE fill out this survey and suggest alternate locations for the event if you'd like, I've confirmed that the question will be included on the post summer internext survey."

I think I have to disagree with this, I have been to 6 shows and never once received anything like this, and yes, my contact information was 100% legit. I have heard a few mention it, but I have heard more asking if I got one, since they heard so and so got one and they didn’t get one.

As for not selling information, I will not argue, but I never once used a phone # I had for anything business related, until I registered with Internext (3 or 4 years ago) and by my own fault used that number and not a week after Internext I had phone calls from content producers who called me by my real name, which I only used at Internext registration and again, no one else had that phone number or information on my name.

I realize you have not been at AVN for very long, but I disagree with what I have seen and what you are told.
|peace|

Thanks for letting me know. |thumb

Bullshit. How are they supposed to plan a tradeshow for the adult online community if they don't have the slightest concept ofwho we are and what we do? But that's fine, just let them go on fucking it up year after year. What the hell? Did Internext hire through the same agency as GW did for the planning of the war in Iraq?

And after all of these years...it's still a mess.




Aly, it's the not caring that hurts.

It's too fucking much.

That's because everyone's expectations are so god damned low after years of Internext fucking up the show.

Don't quit your day job. You'd suck at car sales.

That's a shame. At least then I could have come up with a reason to like you. ;)

Now why don't you go back to work on new ways for both Internext and Adbrite to screw the common webmaster while telling us that it's not your job to know how these things work.

I completely agree. Dwindling attendance is a concern, and moving the conference may well help.... but here's the thing... attendance itself has NOT declined in the past two years (exhibit size has). Especially for the summer show... Of course, with this whole new ball game maybe it will now, but that remains to be seen. I, personally, won't call it either way until after the event.

As far as the Florida show survey goes, they didn't ask the location question last year, which is why I have clarified they will this year. As for Vegas, respondents chose to stay in Vegas during the same time period as AEE; 48% attend that show too.

I am having a moment here aly and munching dick... Hmmm. Anyway!

Here is my take: As shows have evolved over the last 3 or 4 years, more and more stuff has happened off the show floor. The show floor is still an important place to visit at least once (to see what's up, meet people, etc), but there are many other parts to the shows now that didn't exist a few years back. Bars, social situations, hotel lobby, pool side, cabanas, and other events that are not directly on the show floor are now all powerful parts of the trade show.

This year in Vegas, it was very hard to get badges (and Aly knows how I felt about that one), and many people instead just set themselves up in the long hallway leading to the show and turned into show leeches. They saved themselves $250 and they still were able to do just about as much business as usual.

Last year in Florida, the leech factor was huge. Many people I saw "at the show" didn't have a badge, were sharing badges, or were using other tricks to get people in and out of show functions without paying. I truly think that about 20% of the people at the event were not actually part of the event.

The biggest mistake made is that the badge is for access to the show floor. In reality, the badge is your way of paying for the SITUATION created by the show. Florida more so than Vegas. It is a self contained adult webmasters and business person's best chance to meet new people, get deals done, and move ahead with projects. Cybernet, which is (from what I understand) a whole hotel takeover will be exactly the same sort of situation - a whole circumstance created to get you networking and moving ahead.

I don't like paying more. I don't like expensive drinks. I don't like "resort fees" when I know I ain't going to be resorting to anything other than the pool. I don't like that the changing buisness model of online adult shows is making it more expensive for me to attend.

However, the economics are there: less companies want a booth, more companies want social stuff, more companies want to do whatever, and as a result, all the income that use to come from floor space rental (at $2500-5000 per 10 x 10 square space) has to be picked up by the badgeholders and possibly by increased advertising space within the hotel. They too are running a business...

Am I happy? Nope. AVN tradeshow division needs to work harder to find other ways to make things work out, otherwise they may find themselves priced out of the tradeshow market.

Alex

$250 just to get in? So after room costs, meals and drinks ($7 for a drink is ridiculas!!!) Greenguy is right. A regular everyday webmaster needs to dish out $2500 just to go to this show if they have to fly there too.

|headbang| that just made my mind up.
I can buy alot of Cervazas for that kind of money
was going to do Phonex but plans changed
I enjoyed cybernetexpo last year and it's within walking distance of me this year.
Hell I can do cybernetexpo and YP for less than half the cost

I'm not so sure that the issue here is $250, but the 67% increase over all previous years and the reasons for it. If it's an issue of losing booth revenue, then why not charge the party throwers an event fee? They are the ones most benefitting from the new rules.
The part about Internext being responsible for wireless access needs to be clarified. When I booked my room, I was told that I am being charged an extra $16/day/room fee for internet, and the useless shuttle bus.
I am thrilled that the 'leeches' will be weeded out, and the fans who stalk the webmodels might have less incentive to be there; but this 'lower-key' show is on the verge of becoming elitist. While we love the idea of having the place to ourselves, we are a captive audience and forced to pay hand over fist for basics like food & drink.
It sure makes me rethink bringing staff and models again.....


edit: I can back up Torn's story 100%- Phone calls like what he mentioned are common in the weeks following the shows.
I'm sure these callers appreciate all the demographic information that we are forced to give along with our credit card number.

Emmanuelle, that is why we lie through out teeth. I trust AVN about as far as I can comfortable spit a rat, disabling the barcode scanner thing on badges is a MUST DO when you get to the shows. There is nothing good going to come to your mail through this system.

Aly: Simple suggestion: can you at least allow us to provide a difference address for mailings and stuff? Using the address on the credit card for a bunch of people means stuff going to their home by mail, where their kids and such might see it before they get a chance to filter out the porn stuff.

The $16 is a "resort" fee that includes shuttle bus and other "resort" things... the internet (wired) in the rooms is included in that. Last year I bought a wireless unit and used it myself.

What AVN seems to be suggesting is that they will make sure that there is wireless access throughout the whole hotel area, likely out by the pool, in the lobby area, bars, eateries, etc.

As for trapped, I think not. Walk out the door, hop in a taxi, and say "Take me to" and name somewhere to eat. You are only trapped because you let yourself be trapped. Buying $15-$20 hamburgers isn't anybodies idea of fair pricing, so don't eat there.

There is also a nice depanneur (I love quebec) about 1 block south, you can go get your snacks and stuff down there, rather than paying hotel prices for it.

There are options, you just have to have the desire to apply them.

Alex

Options are good, but after dropping several thousand dollars on flights and accomodations for our group, I don't want to eat at the 7-11.

We got smart last year and picked up a $15 blender at Walgreens, and $100 of liquor/mix which sustained 4 of us for several days |dizzy|

Without a car there is not a lot around the hotel and cabs get real expensive real fast.

The hotel was built there because it was relatively cheap to build it there since it was, still is, kind of a run down part of town stuck halfway between Fort Lauderdale and Miami.

Really the only thing good about that part of town is the Diplomat Hotel.

Emm: I am not suggesting you eat dinner at the 7-11... but for soft drinks, bottled water, etc, it's a great way to save a TON of money over what the hotel would charge you.

Cleo, I agree you have to go a little bit to find food, but 4 people in a taxi for $40 round trip isn't bad when compared with $20 club sandwiches.

Yes, it's a tourist trap, yes it sucks... but that's where the show is, love it or leave it.

Alex

Alex, my first Internext in Miami we was refused a ride from a cabbie parked outside the westin since it “wasn’t far enough for his time”, which started a huge fight with the westin staff and the fallowing night Toni and I, Brett/Sammy and Emma spent well over 2.5 HOURS in a cab for a 15 min ride and I am not exaggerating one bit, so I agree with being "stuck there" when the cabbies have no clue on how to fallow directions even when I buy him a map.

And I have been in many cabs/limos with MANY MANY people over the last 5 years where it would only be a few bucks per person and ended up having to pay 1/4 to 1/2 of a $60 - $70 the fare since people can not be trusted.

I will have a car **IF** I go, but for people who do not have a car I strongly suggest stay the hell away from the cabbies down there, they have zero clue what they are doing.

Oh what a night!

Put a well stocked cooler in your trunk, hand over a kickback to the doorman, and you can be our chauffeur all weekend long :-)

I have come to the conclusion that there is no reason to go to this show. It's lost. The hotel is too expensive, the cab rides are from hell, and I will have to buy chips at the hotel for $5 for a short can of pringles.

It's a lost cause.

Alex

On the plus side Florida has heat, humidity, mosquitoes and hurricanes but no earthquakes.

This part is just really irking me to no end. What does Joe Blow webmaster get for the increased price? And don't say the seminars, because, for me anyway, I probably wouldn't have gone to them if they were free LAST year.

Is it just me or is ther eno information about the show like registration prices and cost of rooms?

If I can help it, I am most definitely not going to FL this year. Too damn hot and humid, but ya never know.

UW, if your goal for a show is to meet and talk with webmasters one of the conferences is a better way to go than a trade show. A lot more people attend the trade shows usually up to and including surfers so if is harder to hook up with people or get to spend time with them.

I agree about the AVN shows shrinking, and that comes from companies not getting a good ROI on exhibiting, AVN should start to look at what they can return to the exhibitors to make it worth their while rather than pass the cost onto the attendees, but that is just my opinion.

My real biggest complaint ever with the AVN shows have been the time it takes to get badges. I stood inline for almost 3 hours just to get my badge at the Vegas show this year, I almost said fuck it and just left, but people I wanted to talk with were on the floor so I waited to get the badge.

Here are some of the key features and benefits the Summer Internext Conference has added since last year:

- They've paid the hotel a lump sum for wireless Internet access to be turned on in every possible corner of the property. Meeting space, the exhibit hall, seminar rooms, the lobby, restaurants, swimming pool....etc. This allows for all attendees to do get online freely.

- They're building up the Seminar program so that it is on par with what is now done at the Vegas show. Typically the summer event has only had 6 or 7 seminars. This year there will be a full seminar program, designed to deliver the same educational value that people have come to expect from the larger Winter event.

- They will be providing complimentary Breakfast (in the Feature Pavilion/Exhibit Hall foyer) and Lunch outside the seminar room.

- They are shutting down the entire Diplomat Resort for Internext. Other than the convention center lobby (registration area), no one will set foot on hotel property without a badge. This is a tremendous benefit to all show participants. This is an exclusive Industry event. Only those individuals who are looking to do business will be there.

- As requested, they are mailing badges out prior to the event to all pre-registered show goers. This will cut down the wait time on-site.

Overall this event is about ACCESS.
Participants pay for a badge that grants them access to the market they want to reach – the people they want to do business with, access to the seminars, access to parties, access to do business without restriction anywhere and anytime. The point is, once you get the badge - the entire resort property becomes your business forum. You are paying for access and Internext is creating the optimal atmosphere conducive to your business needs.

- There are also other networking events currently being designed to offer additional benefits to all attendees.

|cool|

1 - wireless - I may come off a bit rude, but who cares? Really? Do you really need to have wireless access at the bar? In the restaurant? Pool? Come on! Think about all the self-absorbed assholes that will be sitting in the restaurant with their laptops on the table surfing & chatting away with their friends. I can see maybe needing it in a seminar - that one could be valid. But I doubt very heavily that I'll be walking around the lobby surfing uncomfortably in a chair when I can walk a couple 100 feet to an elevator, go up to my room, sit at a desk & plug myself into the network that I'm already paying for thru the hotel.

2 - seminars - have you guys considered that by giving free access to the seminars, that the show floor itself might become even less popular?

3 - food - breakfast & lunch for 3 days for 5000 people? I don't even dare ask what's on the menu - LOL (enjoy the cereal & soup)

4 - hotel - it was supposedly closed to just us the last 3 years. So now we have to pay a little bit more to actually have this happen?

5 - mailing the badges - best fucking idea yet! :)

****

You know what our problem is? We're too educated. Joe Blow contractor that goes to a convention in Cleveland on lumber & home building has no idea who's running the show, if the Home Depot party that he's enjoying at the hotel is endorsed by the convention or if the Lowes party down the street at a bar isn't endorsed. He doesn't know that sponsors can pay to sponsor the badge, the banners in the lobby, the pool, the seminar, meeting rooms, etc. Nor does he care. But if you told him that this year, you were going to charge him 2 times as much as you did last year & he was gonna get basically the same convention as he did last year (with more sponsor banners floating around, but free cereal) he'd probably decide to stay home with the wife & kids.

It just seems like AVN is trying to recover lost revenue by raising the price of the badge & thus screwing the everyday Joe Blow webmaster.

I'm gonna stay home with the wife & kids & save myself $2500.

Is that your final answer?

[quote=Greenguy]1 - wireless - I may come off a bit rude, but who cares? Really? Do you really need to have wireless access at the bar? In the restaurant? Pool? Come on! Think about all the self-absorbed assholes that will be sitting in the restaurant with their laptops on the table surfing & chatting away with their friends. I can see maybe needing it in a seminar - that one could be valid. But I doubt very heavily that I'll be walking around the lobby surfing uncomfortably in a chair when I can walk a couple 100 feet to an elevator, go up to my room, sit at a desk & plug myself into the network that I'm already paying for thru the hotel.
QUOTE]

|bow| |bow|

I'm sure that the people who do buy booths will appreciate not having to pay hundreds of dollars to have net connections on the floor.....

Aly, I don't know you, but it's obvious that others here have a certain level of respect for you, so forgive my undying attacks is they seem rude. (My bad, I've lived in a cave for quite some time.) But you can't really tell me that the same individuals who penned that demographic questionnaire are going to be able to educate us. They simply don't know us.

It has just occurred to me (forgive me, I'm a slow thinker) that AVN never really considered the webmaster to be within their demographic. The show is completely designed for, and about, sponsors. It's their tradeshow, not ours. I guess I have no point in arguing on. Damn. :(

PS.- Hi Tev! |waves| Long time, no see.

I seem to remember paying $20 a day for wired high speed in my room. I like the idea of free WiFi everywhere. :)

I don't care about the seminars as I never go to them anyway.

Probably won't eat the free food.

I live here so if I do go, I'm really thinking of skipping it, I won't stay at the hotel. Last one I paid for a room for three days and never even slept in it.

Good lord! ... We're about to agree about something..! ;)

You're right, the Internext staff are NOT in a position to design the seminar schedule etc...

...I'm designing it along with AVN Online's new editor and three experienced, intelligent members of the industry who have nothing to do with AVN or Internext directly. (And I have no idea if they plan to sponsor or advertise... that's irrelevent to the choice.)

Great point! Thanks! |thumb

Aly, are we correct in saying the "resort" fee will disappear because (a) nobody in our group will take the shuttle bus to the other building, and (b) internet is now free everywhere?

take that $16-$20 off the room rate, and I think more of us would be happy to handle an increase in the badge costs. But if we are still paying for what we are getting for "free", then you have just found a way to double charge us.

Alex

Hmmm......

Maybe reserving a block of rooms in Buffalo or Chicago that weekend might make for a better venue :) I'd much rather do that then spend $250 to enjoy the beer that a sponsor is playing for.

Darling, I don't think a resort fee gives you free internet access. I recall paying daily for it last year whenever I logged in. That would no longer be necessary. As far as other hotel fees and charges go, Internext really has nothing to do with those and doesn't actually make any money off any hotel charges at all. (which seems like a lost opportunity to me frankly... but I digress!)

OKAY.. sorry for the delay in answering. Renee contacted the hotel managers for me to clarify exactly what this 'Resort Fee' is (it's a new thing)....

You're right in that it does include internet access in each bedroom, (Internext has set it up so that all the rest of the property is wireless) but it also covers:

- Access to the Health club/Gym
- Free local calls
- Free long distance calls within the continental U.S. (up to one hour per
call)

This is why I was getting confused. Last year we had to pay extra for internet and this year it is included in the resort fee so I have to get it.

Yes, it confused me too!

The thing is, this is a change the hotel made at some point in the past year; it's not something that the Internext crew implemented, so I can't make the hotel not charge that.

What Internext is setting up is wireless across the entire hotel though, so at least you're not limited to your room if you need to get online.

It's funny as heck to pay for something in the room that will be free in the hallway.

Ahh well.

Alex

I understand that you have no control over what the hotel does. Actually it sounds like the hotel decided to make us pay for it since they knew we wouldn't buy it if you gave it away. The problem is I only care about it in my room, I'm not going to be dragging a laptop around the hotel with me, so now I'm basically paying for access that I'll never use.

Which brings up the other point. It isn't just the show fees that has gone up, everything has gone up.

I don't know… I've gone to every Florida show… they just keep on getting more expensive and smaller and I keep on asking myself why I keep on going to them.

You know with all the hype, the obvious need for a reputation, the requirement to have 'VIP' passes to get anywhere after hours, the lack of real business benefit apart from 'being seen' and most importantly the move towards even having your toilet breaks organised ....

Is it no wonder many of us from overseas wouldn't spend the estimated $4-5000 and whole week away from work to come over there?

Internext sponsors and participants would benefit from having me and my business attend the conventions, because my current business presents many opportunities for others, and we spend a lot of $ on the many services being offered at the convention.

But simply put ... internext doesn't make at all appealing to people like me. From what I see, there is a large shift towards more local conventions and gatherings, and reading the reports from each past Internext ... I can understand why.

Aside from meeting Cleo and an ex father-in-law/grandfather, I have no reason to visit Florida. (sorry Cleo)
I can get wireless on the Strip in Vegas for free.
Phoenix looked good, but airfare from here sucked.
"Badges" used to be like popcorn, given away by nearly everyone. Booths used to be filled, and cars given away.
That Biz model changed years ago, unfortunately I don't see anywhere that AVN is changing to fit the times.
My ex and I stayed for 5 days/4 nights for about 450.00 each, including the "badges".

Find a mix like that again, and you'll have way more than you know what to do with.
(hint- walmart, nike, toyota - does anyone there read Fortune?)

Aly - met you and Snoop at the Vegas show along time ago, this isn't personal. You just have some idiots running that company, that need to seriously figure out their plans.

Many of those who actually DO something in this industry are the ones who will suffer and be excluded based on financial issues.

The amateur website owners- you know, the ones who put their heart, soul, and personal (and intimate) pics on the web- it used to be that they scrimped and saved all year long, to be able to attend the show. It represented the only opportunity to network, shoot with other web girls, and most importantly- LEARN. Hell, I flew to Vegas before opening my first paysite and the education I received there was invaluable.
In the past, many amateurs would learn to cut corners- stay at the Holiday Inn and hike up the street; eat at Denny's instead of the Grande Luxe... Whatever it took, but good golly they could do it! You know what? Nobody pays for their passes either. They're far too insignificant for sponsors to want to cultivate. These people work damn hard to earn the extra money to purchase show badges.

The webmasters who are slaves to their autosubmitters, who pray that something works to keep those (sporadic) sponsor checks coming in. The tgp and link list owners that we all rely on for our traffic supply... The people glued to their desks 15 hour days, growing their home based businesses- nurturing them like small children, trying to think 5 steps ahead... Also people who pay thier own way. People who work damn hard, and still refuse to see the shows as a vacation, but as an important opportunity to make those crucial contacts that will hopefully make next year just a little bit easier.


Sadly, it is no longer possible for those who have not yet reached a significant financial benchmark to participate, be educated, and be motivated by those that went before them. Our 'trade shows' have become elitist soirees designed as an opportunity for major players to pat each other on the back...


I get a quiet chuckle in the last weeks preceeding the shows. I watch people scramble to find someone they can piggyback off of, 'represent', or just beg for a pass. These people would never dig into their own pockets to attend a show. They simply will not attend unless someone else pays the bills. Yet these are the people at all the shows, while so many others cannot.

I have a completely different perspective.

I have had a good working relationship with AVN for years.

In the past, AVN worked with us to be able to provide a discounted rate for amateurs. They went out of their way to help and give people that can't afford it easily an option. We wanted to create focused roundtable discussions and they were very amenable to all our suggestions. I would say they are more than willing to find the ways to make the show worth every penny.

Most mainstream events cost far more. I spoke at Digital Hollywood and the walk in price was $695. The hotel was much pricier (though admittedly not off season).

The opportunity to network at the show was, is, and will always be what you make of it. In my own experience, every single one of their shows has brought me business and been full of opportunity. IMO, any event big or small is what you make of it.

I know from previous experience that the hotel likes to make bank and that is not something that AVN has any control over. But let's face it, there really are not that many hotels that will gladly accomodate a bunch of pornographers even though we are actually less obnoxious than other conventioneers.

People always suggest doing a different show. Some pull it off but ask any of them it is not easy. AVN tries hard to be a resource to the entire adult industry and it is no easy task either. They might make some missteps along the way but they have always been proactive to address issues. Ultimately, imo, they are focused on on providing a benefit to the industry and doing it at a fair rate.