I did that recently and got turned down at several big lists and I have decided to go back to having multiple directories. As a free site builder I want to standardize my work and make my templates easy to use and not have to change them all the time. It's easier just to put everything in a directory and duplicate it as UW shows.

---art

I agree.

I dont think index.htm/index.html is a big deal at all. I mean what's with all u Link List owners who think being on a mirror page is so terrible? You really expect these submitters to put you on an index if you're sending minimal traffic? When I used to submit freesites I would do it like this:

freesite/index.html
freesite/index.htm
freesite/warning.html
freesite/warning.htm
freesite/enter.html
freesite/enter.htm

freeesite/main-page.html

freesite/gallery-1.html
freesite/gallery-2.html

there's nothing wrong with the above.

http://www.unlimitedfreegalleries.co...ig-booty-hoes/

http://www.unlimitedfreegalleries.co...disclaimer.htm

They're both cached, they both received traffic and they're both giving the surfer what they want. Anybody who owns a LL that isn't hoes.com, link-o-rama.com, penisbot.com etc and always want to be on an index is dilusional IMO and people will just stop submitting to you, rather then change how freesites are made.

I think its best to do it the standard way with the html from each mirror site in its own directory.
I use advanced submitter to help make the mirrors which makes it pretty easy. It takes me about 5 extra mins to do it that way. So for 5 minutes work why cut off all that extra traffic and linkbacks from the smaller link sites.

I'm not to sure why they have the rule but its their site, I want the link backs and traffic (however small it is) so I follow their rules. That extra five mins of effort really is worth it for those extra link backs and traffic. Submitting to the smaller LLs atleast triples my total traffic compared to just submitting to the top 10.

Sean.... I wont argue with you..Do it if you wish..:)
But these LLs have rules and its easy to follow em :)
Upon my experience ... artwilliams is right.
Just try
site1/folder1
site1/folder2
site1/folder3
you will be surprised getting accepted much faster and more often :)
Dont be surprised if your cached pages will lose PR very soon as well as index. (see below)

BTW the second page does not seem to be cached for me already:)
Besides..Your recip "More Porn For Me!" on these pages reminds me sortlinks'...AND I dont think it is a coincidence :)))

What do you say?

nevermail...words of wisdom.

Old Bitches! New Point!
 

Though I only have recently starting posting, I've been around this biz for more than year watching, learning, listening. Here are a couple thoughts with all due respect to those it affects.
Its an old bitch between submitters and LL's who want to be on the index.html page. Other than about 12 - 15 LL's, most don't DESERVE to be on the html page... period and those that INSIST on it are petty. Check your server records and if they don't send traffic ask for hardlink exchange somewhere and DUMP them saving yourelf time on the submits they'll come around eventually.
If a LL on its rules page insists on index.html placement, he gets what he asks for, and then the submitter is clever enough to use htaccess to get around it (I would never do this and I really don't know why anyone would, where's the benefit, just piss people off?) then it seems to me a bargain was made and kept and there shouldn't be any crying later. A deal is deal. Stand up. Besides, a majority of webmasters I've seen (most new ones less than a year or so) don't even know what or how to use htaccess.
http://www.freewebmasterhelp.com/tutorials/htaccess/
More importantly think about the long term. Its not just clicks now, its PR later too. Any page with inbound links from decent sites is going to gain PR. I've done searches and often found several pages from the same site in the results. I almost always check these out on the thought that there must be something there if so many pages are indexed (they will be indexed if you change your content around and work keywords). PR benefit accruses to the LL' too regardless where the pages are or what they end in and actually PR benefit to an LL is greater because the inbound link is usually focused on a category page.
Finally, for submitters making doorwways, I recommend making them logical and intuitive:

yoursite/teens/jan/
yoursite/anal/feb/

or

yoursite/tits/0065a
yoursite/milfs/0065b

and then sticking an index page into the
teens, anal, tits, milfs, directory. This is because surfers (especially porn surfers) are pretty clever themselves and if they like your pages they'll keep digging and just delete off the page id and try and peek into the directory. Your index will come up and you can keep them longer and maybe sell them.
Finally, its really about your site 'cause they'll check that out too and if its quality maybe even bookmark it and come back, and back. I've found that really most of my sales come from my site pages which brought surfers in from a free site submit.
You don't have to and shouldn't just rely on free site sales. If you're not equipped to be here for years then you shouldn't even try. Properly contstructed doorway content (all pages except maybe the pics directory) should be in its own directory, new text, reordered keywords, etc. because there is also going to be a "content size" benefit from the SE's regardless of the placement of that particular page in search. In otherwords you will get a slight ding of your overall sites importance from SE's on the basis of your total site size. IMHO

|jackinthe

Personally I dont see the point in wasting time changing keywords, text alt tags etc on all freesite mirrors making them appear unique to SEs because that time could be spent making your next properly unique freesite. The time it takes you to rewrite say 4 mirrors you probably could have made 3 more new freesites. Thats just the way I see it. I do think it is a good idea but from a time management perspective it doesn't really seem worth it. Thats just me though :)

The only time i feel it would be worth it is if SEs start to penalize your whole site for excessive duplicate content rather than just giving your duplicate freesites one representative listing. But I have not seen any strong evidence for this as yet.

Here's my opinion if ya want it
Bill and Sean are both correct - it doesnt make a fuck how you do the mirrors - if Google was really looking that closely it would be a big deal - but they arent. Second, I have submitted free sites for years where I use the index.htm and the index.html in the same folder - sometimes the .htm version gets a good listing a year later sometimes its the root and sometimes its the warning.htm - but even more important and this seems to be lost these days among free site submitters - the site you want to get into Google and other SEs is a completely different page than what the LLs will allow - you would want to get something into the SEs thats a little more aggressive in my opinion.

I guess what it boils down to is that most people are putting way too much weight on worrying about SEs and how they react to little 4 page free sites built in a half an hour - thats really not the purpose - the free sites are for LLs. More important - if a LL wont accept sites without their recip being on an index.html page - Id start submitting somewhere else as they really dont understand SEs and that might hurt you in the long run.

I'm not arguing with anyone, take it easy. I dont submit freesites anymore. I'm just offering my opinoin on things so submitters to my LL know that I dont care about this.


No, because most larger LLs don't allow you to go back in folders or switch folders. They want the entire site in one folder. The only viable option to get listed on most LLs would be to make completely different pages and just link to the images in the root freesite folder. But that would be heavy dupe content and thus not worth it to submit to smaller LLs at all. More people will just end up submitting to the biggest 15 or whatever LLs. So your rule rule, IMO, is alienating you. That's why I decided to make my post.

|pokefun|
I made those recips in april of 2004. I hadnt even heard of SortLinks so don't flatter yourself. My new recips were made in February 2005 when I completely redesigned my site.

I think it's time to move to allowing more recips on a submitted free site.

I've been thinking about this for a while. Making many multiple doorways with 9 recips each hurts everyone in the long run.

I'd be willing to sacrifice the third sales link on the index page in exchange for the effectiveness of having, for example, 24 text recips on that page.

Linklists should benefit from the arrangement, because it will increase the variety of potential _new_ surfers and length of time that their recips might attract a few _new_ surfers to their list.

It should be better for gaining search engine traffic for both the linklists and the freesite builders.

who for example?
I dont know any...
I d rather say that many reject warning.html
I see that you dont submit sites :)

I ve made em earlier...besides color scheme and

I respect you Linkster, But It I should say free sites were for LLs in the past, now they are for SE and you know it!
and LLs for se too.Otherwise please tell me the reason LLs owners began to ask NICHED text links instead of pictures and just link to index page of LL!

Sortlinks - I will respectfully disagree - the free sites that get submitted to LLs (again my opinion) should NOT be the ones that you are trying to get into the SEs - although in the long run some will fall in there - I think everyone is missing the point with trying so hard to get both LLs and their free sites listed in SEs based on recips and the way the free site is made.
I will restate - the submitted free sites should be for making money off the LLs traffic/surfers - the copy that is different enough with more aggressive marketing and submitted to DMOZ etc to get into the SEs should only have recips to toplists and thats about it. You will make a lot more money in the long run and I can (based on years of experience in SEs) state with no doubts - its a very rough road to try to worry about the free site index pages and their folders/recips etc - thats why I went to not using the category recips and I havent lost one single position in Google in the year since I dropped the cat recips. There are a lot more important things for a LL owner to do that will get them positioning in the SEs than worry about what the recip says.

Thats interesting - so can you submit each freesite you make even if they are on the same domain to DMOZ??

Definitely - as long as they are in separate subdirectories - you can have as many as you like in the free sites and galleries areas of DMOZ - I have some domains that have 50 free sites on them and all listed (and no Im not an editor or even know one - well at least I dont take advantage of my friendship with them)

Good thread!
I agree with Bill about the number of recip links, it wouldn't hurt no one if there were more recips allowed on the index page.
In my opinion it's also worth it to use different text on every index copy to decrease the chances getting a double content penalty but on the other hand not all search engines have such strict rules like google has about the dc penalty. Yahoo for example lists at least 2-3 copy pages of almost all my submitted sites,... one gets #5 and one #7 listing for example.

But I also agree with Linkster, free sites, just like picture and movie galleries (and in my opinion even picture and movieposts) should be optimized for direct selling to the linklist traffic and not put the weight of importance to seo.
It makes a lot more sense to optimize special sites like hubs, blogs, niche pages for seo and get those sites listed than trying to get some lower listings for small keywords with free sites or galleries.

Thats perfect!
Now I agree with you on the above...
how about categories? Do you promote em via category trades only?

Surprised that you have managed it with only text recip.. (btw I do it with NON TEEN LLS in my sig too ;)
Congrats!

upon my ex and the experience of 3 of friends who submit free sites...they make sales from SE traffic of free sites 4 month of age.
I completly agree that in the long run it is..
But I always live to have SE optimised free sites, to maintain better positons for our LLs (and free sites) by having better backlinks (As I noticed sites with s1/fn/ live much longer than s1/warning.html at least now with present google filters) and niched recips.
Its hard times for "white optimisation" guys like we are :)

its goona be an interesting thread for all free sites submites...we should rename it

site1/folder[n]/ VS s1/warn[n].html... lol

guys feel free to post your opinion...
and
THANK you so much Linkster!!
You gave us hope that things are not so bad at all :)

Thanks thats a good tip - I will keep doing that from now on :)
You can also post that more aggressively advertised freesite designed for SE surfers on no recip forums and anywhere else you can think of.

Sure nevermail..thats how I did with some of mine :)
but Ive submitted s1/index.htm (no recips there)