I am talking about any adult convention I know of, including but not limited to Internext. I specifically mentioned Cybernet.

Speaking personally, I definitely don't consider it to be doing it for nothing because I've left every show I've ever attended with more than enough business to cover the cost of attending plus quite a bit left over and shows where I've been on a panel were even better for me.

Obviously that wouldn't be true of everyone and it would depend on what service they offered in the first place.

This is no different than posting on chat boards. Some of us are willing to share information and others aren't. Some are so insecure that they feel the need to post misinformation to try to eliminate competition. I've seen panelists do the same thing at seminars before too.

You could always do it and pull a Kanye West and just stand up and say "AVN does`nt care about webmasters." or any number of innapropriate comments.

Why would a man of your statue in the biz want to serve on a panel for a seminar that should be titled "Why I Think My Shit Doesn't Stink"? What a waste of time and money for participants.

Over a year later and yet another board and I STILL think you're an egotistical fucking asshole.

Smooches.

Thanks for the sentiment, but no worries, I don't feel attacked at all. I just want to help - I love those guys - I love you guys - I just want us all to be friends - oh yeah... and to improve BIZ!!!

I would require them to sign a contract with whatever royalty you deem appropriate for the VOD version/PPV and tapes they sell afterwards from the panels. I would also require an honararium, as like others have posted, I have never heard of panelists doing this for free at a convention other than with the adult industry seminars - and where in the world do they get off selling increased priced tickets for something they dont pay the panel for?

Greenie - I do like your idea of the separate traffic get-togethers (similar to the little ones we've done in the past) where we could do an invite to board members to come and learn if they are really interested - and not hear the same thing over and over from the same people that do these panels every year who are leading people where they want for their own positioning. (my opinion but I hear it every year as well at both conventions)

Of course by my saying that we should do it separately, that kinda brings up the same point that we have been trying to make here, which is that because AVN is not interested in the front line webmaster, and have yet to take or even respond to one suggestion in these threads over the years, we end up having a place provide in a central location with a high cost to do our networking. Seems to me that with a little planning we sure could pull off the same results with a huge discount :)

I can't argue with you there. The funny part is that you think you aren't. ;)

Wow..Greenguy excuse me...lol

Hey i guess you being around for awhile makes you that more important that all of us? I guess what is funny mostly is that if i ever start acting like i am better than or far more important than most i have a standing deal with one of my buddies to hit me as hard as he can on my head with a shovel.

Now saying that, AVN reached out to you knowing who you were, i reached out to you awhile ago to do something really cool. But i can see you are far more important so above us all, i am sorry anybody even bothered to ask you.

Long time ago, i have realized that its not always what i can take from something its what i can bring to it. Taking is easy, the best part of knowledge and the time you have been in this biz is the ability to enlighten...

Its a free country and we can do anything we want i guess, as for me saying anything about your board i dont recall.....

Well anyway, it would have been very nice to have you in Vegas and in the amazing AVN article for real. The only losers here would be the readers or people who dont get to hear what it is or what makes you "who you are, who you think you are"
__________________

Gosh GG it sounds like you are fucked no matter what you do... |mml|

The money and the passes. $1,000 is a bargain ... for them. If I pulled the strings, I could see offering you $5,000 easily.

Since the adult entertainment industry leads mainstream on many levels, why should those with knowledge not be paid to share what they've learned? Their counterparts in the 'straight' world certainly wouldn't do it for free.

And this is not to say that we don't willingly share it with others but when called up to give up a few hours of time to prepare then sit on a panel, I think there should be a monetary value placed on this as well as any residual $$ made. People are paying to attend this seminar and there is money to be made from sale of the DVD's even if it's just $1.00. They are selling what took him years to learn, glean, trial and error and what is in his goodhead.

For someone like GG, whose business is to give his bookmarkers quality programs to buy from, has been established since almost the inception of the adult internet and is extremely well known in the webmaster world, I'm sure it would be more to the benefit to AVN to have his name on the program.

of course what the fuck do i know? I think i'm in retrograde newbie status. |pimpin

Well said Doc Holly.

Wow..MikeHawk excuse me...

WTF are you talking about. GG could stay at home and perform his normal routine and enlighten more folks than that entire panel will do in an hour. As moderator, perhaps you could set up computers and have the participants read Greenguy and Jim for an hour.

ummm missed the whole point by this much................................................ |waves|

Part of my anger about this is that I did this panel in 2004 (pretty sure it was 2004 - seminars were downstairs) so I might be acting like I have a big head when I say I'm a bit offended that the person putting this panel together has no idea who I am.

The person that's putting this together doesn't know who Joe Blow Webmaster is nor what they are all about.

Would you be offended if AVN went to Person A about an amateur seminar. Person A recommended Person B for the seminar. When Person B was asked if they knew of anyone else that would be good for the panel, they said "Far-L from Homegrown" & AVN's reply was basically "Who?"


1 - The person at AVN running this panel has no idea who I am (maybe they do now, but they didn't 24 hours ago)
2 - It was not the responsibility of this board to promote an event in Miami that was not being given by our sponsors. That is the policy of this board & you sent me a PM telling me that the policy of this board basically stinks & that we do not know how to do business. This board is not like all the other "popular" boards & we do not put up with spam from people that are not advertisers of the board OR a member in very good standing. I'm truly sorry that you do not like our rules, but if you post here, you have to abide by them. If you don't like the rules, then you have to learn to live with what happens to threads that are posted in the incorrect forum.

I've never claimed to take anything from AVN, but you have to admit, they will be taking $80 from each person that buys a pass from the seminars in exchange for a wealth of information from panelists that receive free passes.


AVN did an article on me in 2003 & they only got 5 of the 8 facts/questions wrong. At least they printed my hate mail full of corrections in the next issue. I don't think there was that big of a write up about the panel I was on in 2004.

I certainly am! :D

***********

This is for everyone:

This isn't about the money - I don't care about it nor need it. It's the principal that AVN gives experts a free pass that costs them NOTHING so that they can be on a panel & give into to webmasters that have paid $80 (total, not per seminar) to hear them. I am a whore at heart, but I don't need to whore myself out to AVN so that my site gets more submits or the board gets more posts.

Speaking of the seminars - as of today, there are none scheduled:
http://www.internext-expo.com/semina...riptions.shtml

If you want to be come a panelist, you have to fill out this form:
http://www.internext-expo.com/semina...me_speaker.php

On there, it says the following:

...2) Confirmation emails will be sent out in writing at least 1 month prior to the show detailing your acceptance, your assigned seminar day and time, contact information for the seminar program manager (pre-show, on-site and post-show) and a brief Speaker Release Agreement requiring your signature...

That means that they could very well not finalize things until Dec 5th. I know, that's the worst case scenario, but when you throw in there that Joe Blow Webmasters might be on the fence about the seminars, he'd have to decide by Dec 2nd if he wanted to get the discounted pass ($25 more after Dec 2nd) for a list that may not be published until Dec 5th

I find it really strange that there is this potential for failure & that tentative list of seminars is not posted yet to at least let Joe Blow have an idea of what they are getting for their extra $80.

And yes, my ego is a bit bruised that I was not "known" or even remembered by AVN about the panel. And I've only touched on it briefly, but my ego is also hurt that I was 5th on a list of 4 people for some sponsor stats segment that will be coming out in AVN (I was only offered it when one of the four backed out) And it's not that I think I invented the stats thing - Netpond & The Statistician did. But I have been publishing them since Jan 2002 (oddly enough, all of my 2002 stats are still on thestatistician.com) & I like to think that I know what the fuck I'm doing with them.

But that brings us back to the whole "AVN Has No Idea Who Any Of Us Are" problem.

PS - Hi Becky!!! |waves|

I went for the "Just make an ass of myself..." - LOL.

Hey Greenguy -- Maybe we should get good and boozed up and turn it into a comedy show. :)

|bananna|

Whatdaya think?

I think I celebrated 1 year of not drinking on Tuesday :)

Yeah man -- I just caught that on the first page. Congrats on that BTW! :)

I do agree with you -- there should be some kind of compensation for doing the panel.

I've seen a lot of people on panels do what I like to call "live spam" -- where they don't offer any real information, but dron on and on about whatever it is they are trying to promote.

If AVN want people to educate the public...the people doing the educating should be compensated.

I don't know that everyone they picked for the pannel were the best choices, but I'm not going to get into the who and what so nobody gets offended...I can say one of the questionable coices was NOT Greenguy -- GG is at least 8 years deep in knowing about traffic.

Jay - that is exactly the problem - AVN is so out of touch with the "real webmasters" that they just jump on who they see posting the most on a particular board, or who touts themself as the leaders or gurus of the industry - and miss the boat in about 90% of their choices - the exceptions - GG being one, MML(although I dont remember if that was AVN or another show LOL) and a few rare others.
That said it goes a little deeper in that its pretty obvious that AVN doesnt really understand the web business other than their little niche of it (and based on changes I have seen over the years even that has been questionable) which is the adult video (hence the AV part of their name) end of things.
While to them that is a very important part of the game and it shows from their incorporation/melding of the AEE and Internext shows without thought of the consequences - it is not the "premier leading edge of the internet business" - (kinda paraphrased from their mission statement of Internext).
It is a very small part of the internet business as most of us understand - but in their sphere it is all there is.

Until AVN (if they really want to be taken seriously - which I still am not convinced of) makes a stand to promote the adult web business - and the whole business - this banter will continue in circles.

I understand people (like a good person such as Far-L - or even my fantastic great friend Aly) trying to step in and do something about bringing both ends in - but I think the part that gets missed is that even the combination of our little LL, TGP and SE biz combined with AVNs star video as well as Homegrowns amateur video - only scratches the surface of the adult internet business - sure its 30% of it - maybe :) But there is a world of WMs out there that get left out in this venture - and that is the major shame of all of this.

Linkster: Many thanks for the compliment and your very succinct critique of the situation. This is the kind of feedback that AVN needs to hear.

GG: I have been on that end of the stick... Years ago when we hit a particular milestone and wanted AVN (the magazine for us brick and mortar folks) to do a piece on us being the longest running series, the editor at the time who didn't think much of us gave us one tiny paragraph that was headlined "Big fucking deal" - Then went on to describe how we had the longest running series in adult history.

Needless to say - as long time advertisers - we were pissed.

We went in and made our case and strengthened our relationship and learned to work with them. We have had smooth sailing since. AVN/AVN ONLINE/Internext have come through for us time and time again.

Oftentimes, as i am sure you already know, resolving adversities and overcoming problems in business and in friendship is where you learn real respect and lasting admiration.

I hope that AVN/Internext will respond to the positive criticism here and move forward with a new sense of mission and purpose - and stay current with the needs of the industry. I just hope everyone here will give them that chance.

Hope you don't mean me either... ;) ;) |peace|

I think I am slated to be on a panel about crossover of brick and mortar old timers getting on the internet and internet guys adding brick and mortar style product...

"no idea who I am"

Now you and i both know that is a joke, may i remind you of an email and attempt on my part to reach you months ago regarding something new that AVN was and is going to do in there Mag and roll it out at the show. I asked you at that time if you would do this, and you said no.

Its to bad....oh well.

Oh and posting on your board, i follow rules, and i do respect. I also speak up when there is something on my mind, that is something i will always do.

Hey if you change your mind, contact me directly if you want to discuss this, I think some of it might surprise you.

hmmm Jay that is nonsense and bullshit, i contacted GG long long ago, he decided not take part or not even talk about what it was i wanted to run by him. You unlike him know what it is i have in mind and what AVN is trying to do.

I agree GG should be in this, he is not just for the very reason, he decided not to be on his own.

Congrats GG on your non drinking...this Jan 17 will be 17 years of non drinking and all that other shit too.

GG and I aren't even "the guys with the traffic" -- if you took both of our total traffic and multiplied it by 5 it still would be less than one of the major TGPS.

GG, you bring up a good point about Internext, because they do charge an extra fee to attendees that want to go to the seminars. Cybernet, for example, charges one flat fee for the entire event so I have no real problem speaking on the panels for free, but now that I think about it, speaking on a panel where AVN has made additional money from everyone in the room -- who are technically paying to learn from me and the other panelists -- without getting paid does sound unreasonable.

I'm thinking that since without panelists, AVN would make nothing from the seminars, that the panelists are entitled to at least 40%. So, if there are 200 people in the room that each paid $80 for a total of $16,000 and there are 6 panelists, each panelist should be paid about $1,000.

I would now like to eat a big fucking piece of humble pie, as I am a big fucking not-remembering ass.

I completely forgot that you asked me about doing the stats things with Farley & AVN back in March, which I turned down.

I think I turned it down because it's hard to put webmaster referral codes into a print magazine :D

Everyone: Please ignore every thing I said about AVN & the stats thing, because I was asked & I turned them down. I am an ass for not remembering this.

I stink |banghead|

True, but AVN was still foolish to ask you to be on their traffic panel. What do you know about traffic? Have you ever successfully fixed the problem with my neighbors parking in front of my home? No - you haven't. What the hell kind of transportation engineer are you anyway? I intend on writing a strongly worded letter to city planning.

maybe... but Jim still has dogs. :D

You could have ended it there & I would not have been offended - I really am a "been in the business so long people think I know something" ass :D

I'll drink to that! |cheers|

Ill second that toast :)

The payoff of doing a seminar like this is different for everyone. I was never offered a pass to the show, I happened to be exhibiting but I was never asked or offered anything. I didn't do it for compesation. I did it for recognition and to share knowledge...for me it was putting myself up on the ultimate chopping block and testing my know how against the masses school of thought. What made it all worthwhile was a guy coming up after the seminar to me, shaking my hand and saying "everything you said was right on" - and hands me his card. He was from Yahoo/Inktomi. That was a high :)

So the question is, GreenGuy, what makes sharing that knowlege worth it to you? Is it money or passes? Ask and you may receive. Should they cover your hotel room? If it's not about money is it about recognition? Will doing the seminar bring more people to this site as dedicated participants or bring more advertisers or traffic to your site?

I guess that's what you need to ask yourself. AVN is just providing the platform - build what you will.

I say try to ask them for free passes for you and the wife, then when you get there, give them a call about 5 mins after the panel starts talking. Tell them you can't make it cause you are stuck in "TRAFFIC" and you would like to just tell the audience that the best advice you can give about traffic is to avoid it at all cost, if possible. Then go gamble up a storm.

And here I thought I had the perfect Hot Topic for the newsletter. Oh well, I found others :)

I think any of us that have ever been on a panel before or have been asked to be on one this year should boycott until they agree to start paying all of us. If they have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with panelists that are willing to do it for free the seminars will suck worse than usual and next year they'll be more receptive.

Look at it like this. You are doing a speaking engagement. You should be paid for your knoweldge. Even tho you state you have none. Just staying in this biz for as long as you have is worth something, and lets face it you are some what of a celeb in this biz be it big or small. Ex-presidents get paid to speak, why should'nt you. This biz is just like any other, everyone is trying to make a buck and save a buck. In no way should you feel that speaking for them is anything special. What are they giving you in return that you can't get yourself? With things like this it can go two ways, you can get some respect from your peers (which you already have) or you can say a 1 or 2 dumb things and have your peers start wondering how you survived so long. I say forget about it and drive on. Life will not be affected.

Johnny V at Wildline aint a bad guy to know....

The one benefit that might make it worth while is exposure for the board, and that's a big might

I'm going to Vegas anyway - hotel & flight's are booked (not thru Rose cause I want to get the room comp'd with my very poor gambling habits) I do not plan on getting a pass as I really see no need for it. Submits at LOR are fine, so I'm not at the point where I would need to seek more submitters.

So exposure for the board would be the only benefit & I'm not sure we need to gain exposure by doing the panel.

I'm just so fed up with all the AVN crap & a lot of this needs to be brought out into the open & talked about (even if AVN has not joined into our discussions)

I've never heard of him, but if you say he's an ok guy, then so be it. My point about him - and I'd say this about ANY traffic broker on the panel - is that you have to assume that a traffic broker has an agenda. It's his business to buy & sell traffic. So maybe there needs to be 2 separate "traffic" panels - one on how to generate your own traffic & one on how to buy & sell it.

You could say the same thing about ANYONE on the panel - Jay's doing it to get exposure for his link list, his traffic projects & his affiliate program. Q'on would be doing it to get exposure for his projects, etc.

And this shit thing about all this - and I am a cause of this - is that it's happening on the board instead of on the phone or in person. We really need to get people from AVN in here & start up a serious discussion about the conventions so that they know our side of things instead of just bashing them & hoping that they read the threads.

I've used this analogy before - we know way too much about how this particular convention works. My Dad's been to many conventions & when I tell him the problems that we have, he, being just an average convention attendee, has no clue what I'm talking about.

I'm rambling again......

Or as guests on the Radio show......
That would draw more people to the radio show, give webmasters answers and info about Internext/AVN and keep the listeners entertained.

|thumb

We do plan on having Far-l on the next show (Nov 29th) & he's gonna AVN is someone wants to join him so that there's 4 people on the show & no one can hear 2 of them :D


That's a shot at the Radio Show & not at Far-l or AVN