This is very true.

The best money I ever sent in this business was the trip to Surfn and Dr B's first Chicago meeting. Small enough to remember who you met.

Right after then carried a shit load of shirts and hauled ass to Vegas. I spend a couple grand to go to Vegas specifically to meet some GG&J board members. Never regretted the cost of the trip because doors started opening for me. I am not that successful but the Chicago and Vegas trips sure moved me closer to my goal.

However, small regional shows might be the place to do business and Vegas might be where you go to gamble

Live Half Assed Webmaster Radio Tonight @ 8 PM EST

Timely Topic: Far-L From HomeGrown & Farley From AVN Talking About Internext

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Feed will be up at 7 (30 min from now) & show will start at 8 (90 min from now)

Thanks Chop I know that was my goal. Make everyone comfortable and do some bidness |bananna|


Look for an announcement from me on or about January 15th for a spring gathering :)

I seem to recall one of the best networking experiences took place in a non descript house in Greenwood..

and in attending last year, I did more business outside of convention than inside.. which could be replicated using the aforementioned camhouse and backyard..

*flashing eyes at Far-L*..

Far-L - you know I respect you and always have, that said I know that your view on this is based on your niche and "thrust" of business with the cross-jumping into the AEE and other opportunites that are provided with the current show format - it makes sense for you to fully support the show the way it is developing - heck I sure would. there are two points that I always have stinging in the back of my mind though - the first being the "deals" that you are able to make for your amateurs - which although I fully respect you for being able to do so - kind of grates on quite a few amateur site owners that read this - I'm pretty sure they aren't going to post their thoughts, but it kind of stinks for them as they don't have the recognition or background to be able to negotiate anything with AVN. Again this is not to take anything away from you - it's just one symptom of a system that is broken.

Second - over the last 4 or 5 shows, I have seen and heard over and over on boards like this (and you know as well as I do that this is not the only board with threads like this), that there are a huge majority of webmasters that are the people trying to eek out a living just barely, who have no interest whatsoever in crossover to the video side of adult entertainment, who are the trench webmasters trying to find a way to network with their peers, but are flabbergasted by the prices, the locations and times that generate those prices, and the general apathetic responses by the creators of the event. These are the 80% WMs - the majority that cannot go to these shows because of the prices, that although they would love to network with their peers, are relagated to listening to the sponsors talk about the parties they went to, the 20% that can afford (most just barely) the cost of the show talk about the great networking that went on and (the worst of all) the total silence from AVN about any changes that might be made to give the "trench WMs" a chance to take part in their industries premier annual show.

Just my opinion again but its based on a hell of a lot of conversations with those "trench WMs"

Wouldn't Internext be of more value to the sponsors and exhibitors if more "trench WM's", to borrow Linkster's term, were able to attend?

I saved all year to be able to go to Miami in August and I shared a room to cut that cost in half. The cost makes going to Vegas out of the question. I don't care about attending AEE or CES, and I'll wager most other "trench WM's" don't either.

I guess the bottom line is whether or not AVN wants Internext to remain to be a show for webmasters. If so, changes need to be made to control the costs at both shows. The first step is getting someone on staff, or as a consultant, that has been a webmaster, or "traffic guy", as Farley called us.

Given the current status quo, I don't think I'll be attending another Internext.

Just my 2¢ worth.

Thanks for having me on today
 

Greenguy and Jim,
Thanks so much for having me on today. I think I was able to shed some light on a number of questions you and your listeners (sorry emmanuelle) had. I'm happy to say 3 of your listeners have already reached out to me tonight. As I said on the show, I'll be happy to keep posting answers to any questions on this thread and I'll keep everyone up to date on Internext info.

Please email me at farley@avn.com
AIM= AVNFarley
AVN Contacts http://www.avnmedianetwork.com
Internext info- http://www.internext-expo.com
FREE AVN Online Subscription http://www.avnonline.com/subscribe
Send Press Releases to pr@avnonline.com
Watch the Internext Expo Live for 3 days at http://www.InternextLive.com
Industry News and Info http://www.AVNOnline.com

So we're surfers now?

AVNOnline Management is QUITE aware of my position. I have also relayed that 99.9% of ALL opinions I've read on the various boards are very much along the lines of my opinion.

We have publicly stated that we are boycotting this year in Vegas because of the stupidity of scheduling.

I was unable to listen live. Is the show available for download and listen?

maybe they were surfing listeners..

just for the record (i'm so anal i had to go count) i attended 92 trade shows and expos this year.

emmanuelle - I'm sure he meant "board surfers" :)

EmporerEJ - all the archives from our shows are posted here:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio.html

docholly - sorry for misquoting you - I thought I read 22 someplace :(

You must be a webmaster because surfers bitch less...

|smooch|

Great - less competition for fellow media whores like me!

I'm not aware
 

I'd like to be personally made aware of your position. Please contact me if you'd like to discuss.
Thanks
Farley

farley@avn.com
AIM AVNFarley
818-718-5788

GG you didn't.. i probably thought i did ..but i am anal *that's about the only place i'm anal*.. and had to go look.. lmao.. |thumb

As an amateur site webmaster, I thought I'd reply.

I actually take no offense to AVN not trying to work around me. I don't expect to have the clout of a top adult company, that's silly.

It's my decision to spend the $2500 or so for the experience, or stay at home and read webmaster board archives for a week, for free, in my pajamas. Or it could be my decision to be pro-active and positive and organize a local adult webmaster gathering in my own city that best suits the needs of that group.

I just don't feel conned or ignored, although OF COURSE I'd like it to cost me less. And OF COURSE I'd like it if more people attended, but you can't put on a large-scale business event that is cheap enough for *anyone*.

Seriously, how inexpensive does it have to be to be inclusive of the tiniest "webmasters in the trenches"? $1000 for the whole trip? $500? That's where regional conventions and local webmaster hangouts come in handy, in my mind.

If I wanted to bitch about other businesses not listening to my needs, I'm more inclined to be pissed off that credit card companies charge us exorbitant fees for processing because they encourage customers commit fraud against adult sites. :)

Webmasters truly are the Red Headed Stepchildren of AVN. As Farly said last night, they make their money from the Video part of the business and the magazine.

Far-l, I understand why you would defend AVN. I'm sure they help your business out quite a bit with the Video end. But, they really don't do anything for the average webmasters. Farly said that the magazine was what they gave back. But, come on, if that is all AVN gives back, that is kind of lame.

As I said, with Farly being here, we have a start. But AVN needs to know who the webmasters are.

:-)

Far-L I'll never be as big a whore as you man...
Only man I know that can "entertain visitors," shoot content for the live stream, Get Blown by a cute chic, be interviewed by a british babe for MSNBC, and at the same time, maintain his erection and control his ejaculation time.

You'll always be my hero!

|bow|

I'll be happy to forward my conversations with Kat (With her permission of course)

Jim-
I'm concerned that something is getting missed here in this conversation. There is a very clear distinction between "AVN" and "AVNOnline" in my mind.

Sure they are all part of Teddy Communications, and yes, they are the same company. But within the company, it's always been my impression that AVN was the top banana, and AVNOnline is the bastard child. (MY personal exposure impression.)
webmasters, being the "offspring" as it were, of AVNOnline, are regarded by "corporate management" as just that.
This may be a result of how AVNOnline came into existence. Many newbies here will not remember that AVNOnline magazine was a "Purchased Publication" by AVN. AVN, being the original magazine founded right here in the Commonwealth of PA by a video store owner.

They have separate personnel, editing staff etc. And while I may be biased, I've always felt AVNOnline was a MUCH better magazine. Better writers, better editing, nicer people, and all around much more "on the ball." (No pun intended)
:D

But this show schedule was just a really stupid idea all around and the person that said it would be a good idea should be taken out back and beaten severely.

So tell me, which do you find more informative as a magazine for webmasters? AVNOnline, Xbiz World or Klixxx?

I also want to add this:

Reduced rate badges based on the type of site you run or the amount of yourself you put on the net seems a little bit weird to me. Is my reward for keeping my clothes on (a good thing, trust me) to pay double what other people pay for the same thing?

Is this a question of Homegrown paying the other half, or is AVN giving away deals?

Is there any sane reason why badges are so expensive?

Alex

Alex - I don't think we got a clear answer to that, which I know I asked (why pay $170 to have people spam us in person - $250 to hear seminars from people that are probably there to spam us as well since they are not really being paid)

I think we did get the "it is what you make of it" reply, but the badge (seminars or not) has much less value than it did in 2000.

I will say this & I looked it up after the show last night - the rates for The Venetian are $20/night more than last year, which considering it's the 3 conventions at the same time, is not that bad of a mark up (and badge costs are the same)

The answer is simple math. They have to make a certain amount at each show. As fewer and fewer webmasters and sponsors show up, prices go up. If the attendance keeps going the direction that it is going, badges will be a grand in a few years :)

Does anyone have the basic badge costs from 2004? 2003? 2002? 2001? 2000? 1999?

2000 was the 1st year at The Venetian - 1999 was the Monte Carlo if I remember correctly.

I lost all my old emails mid 2004 so I don;t have that info :(

GG, the rates for the hotel were like that only until they sold out, and that was a long, long time ago. Most people are paying significantly more than last year, especially those who would normally stay at secondary hotels. What finally decided it for me not to go was when I found places like Imperial Palace and Harrahs at more than $200 a night - 60 and 90 days before the event. If you did that same event 2 weeks later, we would be looking at something like $39 a night.

Jim, bad math. In making the badges more and more expensive, they in turn make it less and less attractive for sponsors and people planning booths to be on the show floor to start with. If there are less people to market to, the value of marketting goes down. Plus, you need less sales people, less hangers on, and less support staff. Why send 10 people to a show when 2 will do?

You have to have people to market to, or there is no point. At $250 for a badge, they are cutting their own legs off in the long run.

Alex

You act like it's AVN's fault that you didn't plan ahead & book early :D

I of course didn't factor that in & just went off the emails I got from Rose for last year & this year (which I usually just glance at & then delete to the trash folder since I book this stuff myself so I can get comped)

The question has been asked in this thread but I don't see any responce to it at all.

"Why not change the date of the Vegas and Miami shows"?

The only reason I'm going to Vegas this year is to introduce my wife to some people. If the show runs into booking problems next year I'm not going. Last year the show floor was way small and people had to wait for hours to get badges. It was simply wrong.

In 2006 I have budget for 4 shows and I'll take my wife to Vegas. If the dates don't change I'll go to 4 shows in 2007 and none of them will be AVN. If Dr. B, Tommy or GG have a get together I'll be there but Vegas is just getting silly.

You are preaching to the choir, my friend. That seems to be the math they are using. Better math would be reasonable hotel rates + reasonable badge prices = more attendees.

But, Greenie and I were talking earlier. The money doesn't affect me at all. I have the MGM wanting to get their money back from me and for the past several years they have offered a free flight and free room. In this business, I like the business. I don't care for the content part. So, unless, we turn back time to the good old days of sitting in a room smoking cigars talking business without strippers, I won't be attending any of these events.

And get rid of the damn strippers walking around with the scanners on the floor...I forgot that part :)

We got a lot of answers to that on the show - Vegas is good for AVN because of the other show, Miami in August is dirt cheap & the don't want to move to another month because they'd interfere with the other conventions (San Diego, Phoenix, etc)

5000 people in a suite calmy smoking cigars & chatting while sipping on Brandy?

We did what you're saying in Miami...remember? :D

Didn't Aly tell us to just use a Sharpie on the bar code?

[quote=Greenguy]
EmporerEJ - all the archives from our shows are posted here:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio.html
QUOTE]

OUTSTANDING!
I shall now be a "regular" listener, since I can download this to my personal listening device and avoid some more of "real life" by listening instead!

There's enough listening in there to last me quite sometime

EmporerEJ (and everyone else) My apologies for the recording of last night's show - for some reason, about 20 minutes into it, it stop recording one channel from the mixer, which is partly why the last hour sounds like Jim & I are yelling & it's hard to hear Farley & Far-L :(

...and last night's is the only one really worth listening to :D

Hmmmm...hard to say.
I think it's more of a bit here, bit there?
They each have great contributions, and I read them all religiously.

DIRT CHEAP?
Wow, I'm coming to work for you.
Us "Po' bidness men" don't see those rates as "dirt cheap."

Sure sure....the one show I REALLY want to listen to, and you muck it up...

Greenguy...........you're FIRED!

(Get yer damn suitcase, and go down the elevator to the waiting cab)

Can you think of a cheaper location than Miami in August at the beginning of the Hurricane season?

And it was brought up that it's not an easy task to find a place for 5000 pornographers to hang out for 4 days, so the Westin can say to AVN that they'll let us take over, as long as it's in August & they can charge their own rates since they're probably not that busy & the rates justify allowing us "porn" people.

I suggested that AVN just have a convention at some hall or convention center & let us all find our own hotels, but they said that people like being able to bump into each other in the hotel & we're all together so we don't have to worry about offending people, which contradicts what happens in Vegas, since people are staying at 30 different hotels :D

I could give 2 shits if I even see a nipple in Vegas, but AVN does want people to see nipples & tits & twinks in tight shorts, so we're back to the "Internext is not for us" scenario.