Thanks Kacy... |waves|

To answer the original question, I would say when adding a second processor. And I would agree that NATS, or MPA, isn't necessary in itself. The admin and affiliate features are nice to have, but it's just window dressing without cascading processing.

This is a great thread, and a subject where I can give my 2 cents and have them worth more perhaps:-)

Going with the original question, when starting an affiliate program your focus should first be on the sites in the program, if you have sites that convert then affiliates will promote you regardless of the back end you use.

I think it’s extremely important for programs to use a third party back end and here’s my reasoning (I cannot say one company nats/mpa/riverstyx/X3 is better then the other as I’ve only used nats and can only comment on their back end)

As a program owner I think having a third party software can only help you in building your business and you should budget it in to your start up costs. Sure there are the features that benefit affiliates, stats, access to content and link codes etc. But as an owner of an affiliate program you should want to have as detailed stats as possible. I find it extremely useful to see from where my affiliates are making their sale, it helps me support them better. When an affiliate signs up to you’re program you want to know as much information as possible to better help them with the promotion of your sites.

I find it much easier to add hosted promotional material to our program using the nats back end, and when promoting other sponsors I love the options to dump link codes in the format I chose.

I’m aware that many of the features offered by these affiliate back end software companies can be done with some scripting and coding. I sure as hell am not able to code it so having the option of a turn key solution really has helped me grow my business.

I like the fact I have access to my affiliates addresses, it made it possible for me to send them X-mas cards last year.

Btw Emma, You can set the min payout to whatever you like, that isn’t an issue.
If anyone is worried about a sponsor shaving, you shouldn’t promote them no matter what they use for billing, stats or hosting, use common sense here.

In conclusion :-) you do not need any third party affiliate back end to make a success of you sites and affiliate program but in my eyes it makes managing the whole program much easier and has helped us in being more productive.

wow it's so much easier to just type "I'd hit it" LOL

Agreed, but I've never heard anyone accuse CCBill of doing any shaving.

That said, shaving can be done many ways, and most of them DO NOT involve using the backend software.

CCbill doesn't shave, but anyone who owns a website that uses CCBill as a biller can change links, have leaks on their tour, or find may other ways to skim off top.

I think these days the vast majority of programs spend their energy building their business and supporting affiliates, not finding ways to shave their partners.

As a very new program owner (less than a week), I would like to know what I can do as a program owner to gain the trust of the affiliates. I come to the adult world from the mainstream ecommerce world. To me, there is no gain by cheating an affiliate. Paying affiliates for what they do is a cost of doing business, just like buying advertising or paying your light bill. The only thing you can accomplish by cheating your business associates is damaging your reputation.

I can tell you as a program owner why I chose to go with NATS:

Because I have the same fears that you have - If an affiliate sends in fraudulent joins, gets paid and then suddenly I am struck with a great number of chargebacks and credits, it could cripple my ability to stay in business.

Because I only have so many hours in a day - The features in NATS that allow me to create the hosted ad tools, etc. saves me time. If i save time, i can do more. Using NATS gives me the ability to give my webmasters the tools they need faster, and managed in a way that is easy and flexible.

Because I don't shave - Now, I guess anyone can just say that, but it's just not part of my character to cheat someone. Your reputation is all you have in business. If you don't have a good one, you have nothing.

All that being said, if anyone is interested in signing up, feel free to visit the site at Frogbucks.com and I'll make you this promise: If we ever cross paths, be it in my hometown, at a show or anywhere, you are free to take a look at your account through my admin.

If I'm not mistaken, you can come in and create a link dump of every gallery from within NATS. I don't know if I have this feature turned on or not, as I am still loading the program with galleries, but I am certain that you can do this. You just choose the separator,then download the dump.

another huge reason I went with NATS. CCBILL is fine, although I think their fees are over the top. Because of that, I hope to move away from ccbill in the future to a merchant account. I was billing several hundred thousand a month in mainstream, but getting an adult processing merchant account with an american bank is more work than it's worth for a startup (you cant have a webcam, you cant have this, you cant do that, etc) so unless you are doing $100K plus per month in adult with a 1-2 year track record, you move into something like ccbill. But I also want the flexibility to provide paycom and other billers so that sales are better, affiliates are happier because sales are better and my girlfriend doesn;t leave me because we have to move into a cardboard box.

My biggest problem with NATS, or any other similar program, is the fact that I don't have an ounce of trust in most of you rotten skimming cocksuckers who employ it. A program is not evil. The bastards who use it to cheat their affiliates very well may be.

And the first one of you fucks who replies with "do you have any proof" is going to recieve a solid FUCK YOU in return. I have a voodoo doll and some rusty pins here waiting for you, wise ass.

I'd LOVE to see someone create a simple cascading script which doesn't allow the user to do a damn thing with it. No tampering with cookie expirations or any of that shit. It doesn't need to create or record stats. I'll gladly use the processors' stats. I prefer getting a singlecheck from processor - I DON'T WANT YOU FUCKING WITH MY MONEY! All a cascading program needs to do is cascade. That's all. Fuck your bells and whistles and indecipherable linking structure.

And here's another thing, now that I'm pissed and ranting for no obvious reason - why is it that CCBill can send thousands and thousands of small checks out every single fucking week with a minimum payout of only $25, but sponsors, who send out a lot fewer checks, demand a minimum payout of $100 - and then only want to send checks out once or twice a month. Rotten, no good, cheap ass, lazy fucks. That's what you are! And how the hell am I supposed to reach a $100 payout now that my conversions have mysteriously plummeted ever since you installed that new cascading solution? Which you, by the way, all but guaranteed would INCREASE MY GODDAMNED CONVERSIONS. You simple-minded lying fucks should be fed HIV-infected maggots for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Thank you for your time.
Enjoy your weekend. Drive safe. |thumb

You are not mistaken. You can do this with CCBill. I do it.

This is the #1 reason I am reluctant to sign up with a "new" program using nats.

Lets not forget that most of them charge a $3 service charge as well. If I am willing to be hit with that charge, for all nats program owners, give me the option of being paid at $25 this way I only need a couple of sales from your program before I get paid. This would make it alot easier for me to sign up with you and probably some others as well. More affiliates pushing your sites is bound to help grow your program.

Here is one thing I like about CCbill stats that I have not found yet with nats programs. I am able to see who may rebill in next weeks pay period and how long they have rebilled before this period. Next week I have one thats rebilled for over 1 year. :D I love that person and wish there was more like them. This gives me a small forecast of next weeks earnings. I like that.

NATS program owners (and probably any program owner) can set the minimum payout as low as they want. IslandDollars is at $25 (2 sales) and you can be paid either by check or Epassporte. I agree the higher payout is shitty, especially when trying a new program. That's why mines lower (or reasonable).

I did not know this. Maybe they should state something in their FAQ about this. Most nats programs are $100 with a few at $50. Anyway, since you put up that info I just signed up under you. Of course I now have to wait for approval which I understand but its still annoying since most signups with ccbill you are good to go once completed.

Those are the best Robert! |bananna|

I still have 5 rebills from my very first month my members area went live; 9/2001 ( Just sold VHS videos for my first year + ).

I looked up their usernames. 3 of them are active every now and then, but the other 2 have not logged on in the past year. Guess my old original price of $16.95/mo doesn't shock them on their CC statements. |thumb

Thats great|thumb

Then again, with your sexy green eyes I can't blame them! ;)

UW please don't hold back tell us how you really feel!

I would, but I tend to have difficulty expressing myself adequately. :D

We all know what that is. That's no differant then cam sites. The programs secertly hope you only send them tons of signups. If you send them just a few and don't make the $100 then they are figuring you will get tired or not care so much. And if you don't send them anymore sign ups well that's $100 in their pocket.