that sounds good about the one time fee Tommy.. it will achieve the main objective without actually have to charge anyone per submission... Sounds like it could even be a good add-on to the global blacklist system.. but instead of it being a blacklist.. could be a whitelist that linksites use to automatically mark submits as "partner accounts"

You talked about it as a revenue source though.. Would people be able to pay for submits too to generate ongoing income from it?

*edit: If the "service" is free to linklists to use too everyone would use it and make the one time fee seem very reasonable.. (that still doesnt help me as a linksite user of the service to make money from it ongoing though.. a better model would generate ongoing income imho)

One of the biggest problems right now is site builders creating multiple accounts - I have been paying extra close attention to accounts that are created here by webmasters over the last few month or so, I have noticed that there are site builders creating several accounts at once in anticipation of the 1st one they use being deleted. So, all accounts that have zero submissions after 7 days are now deleted here.

Who are these webmasters? In my experience mostly from Poland (the biggest offenders are operating from this country) and the former USSR. It got the point that I have even considered banning the whole county from the server, which would be a shame really - why should I deny a whole country from accessing my resource because of a few bad apples. Plus, I do have 1 or 2 Polish submitters here who are honest.

Why are they doing it? This is the tricky question for me - if they were creating multiple accounts, subbing sites, then redirecting after a while, I could understand the reasoning behind their actions. But they don't - some of them sub sites, they get knocked back, some get a reason as to why they were rejected. Do they fix the problem - No. They carry on submitting with the same problems - the account gets deleted, they set up another.... an so on.

Another curious thing I have noticed. Is that some of them actually get it right - then shoot themselves in the feet. They sub a site, it gets listed, they sub more, they get listed. Then for no apparent reason some of them create another account under a different identity, and start subbing acceptable sites with both accounts. I catch them, I get suspicious, I delete them.

doublep, these are free submit accounts ???

Hi Tommy - yeah. The fill out the form, they get a validation code to activate the account, then they can start subbing.

For me a Free site is an Ad -
I can promote a sponsor, I can promote Jays, I can promote Marks. Makes no difference to me, it's simply an ad.
Since it's an ad, how to get the most eyeballs on it?

Paid to get listed on Tommy's? of course.
Paid to get listed on GG's? of course.
Paid to get listed on .... ? of course.

At some point the Idea of the internet being FREE, will end. And I believe it will start in the Adult arena, where every other internet concept has developed.

Do I expect a Top Listing through a Paid listing? NO, if Everyone else has paid too.

I simply think this model will become the norm in the next 12 months.
For those in this as a business (full or part time), those who aren'te won't even be a concern. For the latch key webmasters, those days, and IP numbers may be numbered.

I think paid is a good idea if applied in the right manner. I doubt that I would ever charge on my traffic pumps. I have over 40k in unique pages I've built the last 6-7 years and have enough trusted friends that I can update 8 months a year without repeating.

With advent of sponsor hosted galleries and sites, especially with quality of some of them rising, I could probably operate close to 14 months without a repeat on a couple dozen traffic pumps.

That said I would probably buy a submit pass at a nominal fee to a couple of places to keep my feet wet, or check that my marketing strategy is still effective. Which is pretty much what I'm doing now anyway.

I bet if people paid for the right to submit they would put more effort into their free sites.

As someone about to embark on this, I'd really rather the model Tommy mentioned. Basically, paying as an unknown to eventually become a 'trusted' webmaster and be able to submit quality sites for nothing eventually.

If I get 'x' amount of declines I go back into the paid pile for another bit of time as a penelty.

Granted, webmasters outside the US may not have easy means to pay Link Lists and a small fee to US residents may be a chunk of change. However, their sponsors pay in US dollars so that cancels it out a bit.

dareutwo,

I like your observations and agree with you.

I think other major problem is ignorance. As a newbie I know something about that - since one and a half year I have learned a lot but I still 'pay' for my primary mistakes (backlists at some major LL's and TGP's)
First of all most newbies think they are anonymous and if once they screw something, they will start few hours later with new identity - in fact it's is pure fiction.
Second problem is they don't know some facts about AB... they know the rumors about easy money but most don't know they have to work continually for few months to get these nice letters from sponsors :)
Next problem is imitation - everyone is looking for pattern to start with but most offen it ends with copying all site design and changing sponsor links
The final problem is that they don't really know what they want to do. It ends with often server changings, file deleting and such things which are found by TGP/LL owners as cheating.

As you can see I'm from Poland.. some of you still got me on your blacklist (I know I deserved it in past - didn't want to cheat anybody but for some reasons I mentioned seconds ago I found myself there..) but I've learned a lot and I finally know what I want to do. I belive all of you have no reasons to say I'm cheater now - of course blacklisting is unavoidable but sometimes we should give others second chance - it's a pity but as old truth says people learn best at their own mistakes

so your saying you were a cheater and now your not ???

I always wondered about the other side
what they were doing, if they noticed the changes, etc etc
I would be intersted in knowing some of your old domains/emails

how you use to cheat and what you made from it

and why you gave it up


your not andi kuhn are you ???

As I wrote I didn't want to cheat anyone but it could be discovered as I did it on purpouse - here is example..
Some sunny day I made free site (let's say it was free site but these days I wouldn't call it this way :].. never mind...) and it was accepted by few bigger link list like cleo, smut gremlins (this domain still blacklisted there) etc. Got some hits but of course it wasn't enough to get any sale.. Let's say I was dissapointed, probably as all newbie webmasters, becouse this sort of sites didn't bring me tons of easy money (we are talking about 1 or 2 free sites) so I started to think... what shall I do to make my wallet full of green... I decided to make some galleries... as I remember I was shocked with bandwich usage they produced so I decided to use free host.. of course I already forgot about those several free sites and didn't even think of copying them to new server or sending some info to LL owners.. as a 'experienced' webmaster I had 404 redirection to FPA or something like that and LL owners discovered that and banned me quickly - now I know its obvious but that days I didn't realize consequences...
I quess I could post more examples but probably most of you had similar problems at the beggining - the only difference is that most of you started your adventure with adult buisiness when it wasnt so popular ( I mean fresh blood trying it) as these days and than there were no needs and/or possibilities to ban anyone..

I agree with Cleo. I am a dad with two kids and have been involved in the adult industry for the past 10 years. I have taught my kids that they can decide on what they want to do, but I have also tried to install certain values in their lives.

My choice - I work as a Pornmaster
Their choice - Whatever they feel comfortable with and would like to do once they are old enough.

My Dilemma - I have seen what this industry can do to people, and I would rather they do not enter this business!! would not want to see mu blue-eyed blond girl in a porn shoot, or have my son sit and wade through porn pictures, sponsor content or have to deal with all this crap from bulshit so-called webmasters.

That might be something that could work :)

And let's say "someone I know" :) has submitted some freesites to you in the past but never got listed. Would that someone be considered a NEW submitter? :)

"the internet" is not free.

You get a bill from your host.
Your host gets a bill from their provider.
Their provider gets a bill from their provider... They inturn get a bill from the electric company, telco, and numerous other companies.

even the end user gets a bill from their service provider.

as far as new developments. the adult industry likes to claim invention of, when infact at best, they created market for. vhs, dvd, various "internet developments". they adult industry may have been the first to make practicle use of certain developments, but actually doing the r&d, well they couldnt be further from. and the amount of concepts used by mainstream that started in adult, are few and far between. not industry bashing, just reality check.


to the topic at hand. i welcome paid submissions. as long as the list operators remove about 90% of the rules they have in place. most of which are to curb cheating.

if i am an approved paid account, i want to be able to use my paid advertising medium to it's full potential.

with paid submissions should come a wave of innovative and creative "free sites" and free listings. let's get away from these cookie cutter sites with cookie cutter advertising, which has become very ineffective, and get back to a flurishing industry, instead of a saturated & stale marketplace.

I feel bad for the honest webmasters in certain countries. I, like many link site owners, have been forced to block out IPs, hosts, ISPs and all other sorts of things to get rid of people who just can't follow the rules - and worse, are abusive of the system of TGP / link site listing.

If a site can handle 200 new listings a day, why should any one webmaster (or group) feel that 1000 submissions would be good? I closed down my TGP submissions a couple of years ago when I was getting almost 5k submits a day - to a TGP getting about 1k hits per day otherwise. In that 5k, more than half of them came from less than a handful of people.

Link sites put blocks, require code words, keys, type this code, whatever... and still the autosubmitters try to jam as many sites as possible into the review line. They don't give a shit that you don't want to review their sites, they don't give a rat's ass about your rules, they just want to get listed.

Then about half these bastards turn around and redirect surfers to dialers, auto downloads, malware, toolbars, and all sorts of other shit.

There is a small but agressive minority out there that is totally 100% fucking it up for everyone else.

It's sad.

Alex

PS: No, I won't tell you how I really feel!

The stunning thing to me is the number of long time, partner submitters who suddenly have been loading viruses and other nasty stuff onto their pages.

Times are tough and though times will separate those with character and those without. Those without will eventually find a new outlet for scamming or easy money. Right now, however, my tgps are being bombarded by scam submits, but I refuse to close the open submit on many of them - it is the source of future contacts and partners.