Hmmm
A few final thoughts:

1. The board still looks good blue. Would be better if it was purple.

2. The money wins in the end. But then we're porn webmasters, so that's not surprising really. Everyone still makes their own decision according to their conscience. If people are happy to promote nasty shit like Bangbus, they're probably fine with this, and I think it's a bit of a shame, really. Ah well. I'll just continue to do what I do, everyone else will do what they do. I can only try to make my own part of the web more female-friendly and sex positive.

3. I'm also saddened by some of the misogynist comments I've read here and in other threads. Things got kind of nasty, and that's disappointing.

4. The issue is still CONSENT. Don't most of us operate under the idea that anything is OK as long as it's safe and consensual?

5. When Sleep Assault becomes "Sleep Fantasy" and the tour text makes it clear it's all a fantasy, and when the women in the pics are shown to wake up or have orgasms or be generally OK with it, well, then I'll be prepared to accept the arguments that fantasy is what the site is about. Until then, it's a rape site. There's no consent apparent, so it's sexual assault.

6. Either that or all those lovely sites with violence and guns pointed to the head are just "fantasy" sites as well. I'm not prepared to accept that argument, so that's where I stand with this whole thing.

7. Maybe it's all a good thing. These kinds of extreme sites will keep the conservatives happy with their obscenity charges, so the rest of us promoting consensual things might be left alone. Is it a vain hope? LOL

Right. I've posted when I really shouldn't have, now I'm going away for a few days.

Perhaps the board will be green again when I come back.
:)

I take it you make the assumption that I am in disagreement with the point you're trying to make.

Even if I agree with you %100 my support is worth nothing because we disagree on the number of threads it takes to make a point.

I didn't know we had Republicans in Canada.

Okay, so I've read through this thread (and I think a couple of others that were related) and I've come up with the following:

1. It is not my place to decide what is ethical, moral, or proper for others. IMO, what some are labeling "unethical" should more correctly be termed "personally distasteful". I wasn't aware that the porn industry had developed a code of ethics... why didn't I get that memo, UW?... and even if one did exist, it certainly wouldn't be my job to enforce it. Those who support RageCash have their very good reasons for doing so, and those who don't... well, ditto. Add to the mix the issues of individual comfort zones and numerous unique business models, and the plethora of differing opinions shouldn't be suprising to anyone.

2. Do I think using the word "assault" in a massively-publicized porn site is a good idea? Do I think promoting a site by even remotely insinuating rape scenarios is a good idea? Do I think the sponsor in question would stand a snowball's chance in hell of standing up to legal and/or governmental scrutiny of their site? Not in the current political climate, no. But guess what... I don't have to pay their lawyers, so it's really none of my damned business.

3. I personally don't promote "vanilla" sites at all... teen, amateur, Asian... BOOOORING! That having been said, if I refused to use a sponsor simply because I possess that particular OPINION (keeping in mind that it is my right to run my business the way I see fit!), I'd have no one to promote at all, as I have yet to come across a sponsor who isn't busting at the seams with "vanilla"! I don't think it's right or fair to judge a sponsor simply by the content of one site, especially if they have others that really appeal to you or fit into your business model. Whatever each of us decides to to, it is a PERSONAL CHOICE, and there's really no logical reason to tell anyone else about it... all that does is put you in the unpleasant position of having to justify your reasoning and/or rationale.

4. I am comfortable with the idea that GG and Jim had their reasons for accepting RageCash as a board sponsor. Whether or not I agree with those reasons or their decision is a moot point... I don't pay their bills either. Oh yeah... and it's none of my damned business.

5. I've seen enough righteous indignation in this thread alone to last me a lifetime, but it's all based on emotion, personal opinion, and the above-mentioned comfort zones. To each his own, live and let live, blah blah blah. It's not like we as an industry have ever been able to agree on anything else... why should we be expected to start now? :D

NOTE: The fact that I did not indicate one way or the other my feelings regarding RageCash or their site was deliberate and I won't be elaborating on it further... see, you don't pay MY bills and it's none of your damned business! |thumb |devil|

I take it you think I was talking to you?

We could do this till New Years if you like. The pionts are what matters.

Good post Gramma

Ahhh but we have been able to agree on the words "young" "virgin" and anything with kids in it.

99% of the time we can also agree that rape is not acceptable.

The issue is whether the site in question is a rape site or not. It has nothing to do with imposing anyones ethics or ideas on others. It has nothing to do with wanting everyone to boycott the sponsor or all of the other sites.

It has everything to do with this one site crossing the line into something that not one person here agrees should be good for our industry.

No one pays my bills either but like it or not every other business out there has the potential to destroy my income in adult by making poor judgements. We stampede over someone that uses kids keywords (especially keys that attract kids that are not porn related etc) What is the difference with a site that pretends its not about rape and non-consentual sex?

Not sure what part of non-consentual you are not understanding Wenchy.

If this was a simple moral question of whether or not I should promote a rape site, the answer is clearly and easily no. But for many of us, that's not really the question. We're asking ourselves how much money will Rage Cash make me and is there anything to be gained by second-guessing other people's business decisions.

It's like asking people whether you should take a wallet someone else dropped stuffed with hundred dollar bills or report it lost to the cops. If you ask a beggar he'll tell you without hesitation you'll be crazy not to keep the money. If you ask a rich guy, he might tell you he won't even bother bending over to pick it off the ground.

As for me, I'll pass on Rage Cash. I have over 260 sponsors I'm signed up with and I have enough work as it is trying to promote just a handful of them.

I put a little extra in the quote above (not in order) as two points you were making I think run along the same lines as what the original poster was trying to point out - the fact that the picking and choosing of what is "ok" sometimes tends to be a little hypocritical - and sometimes defies logic as well as brings out emotions and unpleasentness that shouldnt really be a part of the discussion - almost with a "crowd effect"

I can think of additional cases where this happened involving a sponsor that has many paysites but one tended to rub some the wrong way - so they chose to not push that sponsor as well as be rather nasty to their rep here - and yet now they are shocked when it happens to one of their own sponsors.

The choices you mention will always be an option to everyone no matter what some would have you believe - but I have to agree with the original post's point and think it would be a good time to reevaluate how certain people approach their discussions - not saying that speaking your mind is a wrong thing (I would be awfully hypocritical myself if I said that LOL) but coming out swinging with little or no respect for board members is not something I would want to be remembered for.

It really comes down to "promote what you are comfortable promoting".

Over the years, I have had a large conscience on my shoulder...that conscience's name is Carol! Unlike many here, all we have every really promoted is "Vanilla Sex", mainly of the Amateur variety, and have done very, very well with it. Luckily, we never had the need to promote the more Gonzo stuff out there.

Because of Carol, we have rarely promoted "Teen Sites" (although, in honesty, I have slipped a few in as favours to friends) as she just isn't comfortable promoting girls under 21. Again, that is her choice. We would not promote the RageCash site in question, but I wouldn't tarnish their entire program due to one website either. As the old saying goes, "To each his/her own", and we do what we are willing to do, for ourselves.

Jim & GG can't be held accountable for anything here. They are promoting a program, and not the individual websites. It really isn't their job to police all the sites, as we are all big people who can make our own decisions. It's up to the webmasters to decide what sites, if any, they are willing to promote.

Danny
Has Carol ever done any fantasy sleep sex stuff? Just curious...

all have their own choise(did i write that right) to promoot what they want nobody is forched to promoot stuff they dont wanna promoot, nobody is the same, your happy with what you promoot well do it, who cares what others think? Not happy wtih what an other person promoot? Thats their choise....live and lett live( i am sure i write that wrong i think..so i am not sure:D)

The only thing we ever did involving "sleep" is a Short Story pictorial where Carol was "dreaming" about a Lesbian Orgy ;)

Other than that, no, we never have.

I do want to point out that personally, I am not against most things, even things that just don't work for me. As long as it fits within my personal moral code (which is different for us all), I'm fine with whatever anyone else is doing. I fully understand the eroticism of "Fantasy Rape", as we have played that game ourselves, and with other people. And like Jim, I have also "snuck a poke" while Carol was sleeping. ;)

My main concern about all this is legalities. In the US, you have to deal with 2257, in Canada, we have to deal with images of "non-consensual sex". Ultimately, everything we do, either in life or with our websites, comes down to personal choice.