Thank you. I've opened this thread about 10 times now trying to think of a way to comment without cursing, attacking, or filling a post with extremely negative comments. You've said it perfectly.

Oh, gee, thanks for the generous offer. *rolls eyes*.

What on earth would I get out of it? You get increased exposure due to webmaster's interest in drama and talking shit on me, you have bigger numbers to brag to your sponsors and you make more money. I get to defend myself to a bag of hot air who is too stupid to tell the difference between Trixie and myself and can't even keep track of why he's pissed off at me and which posts on the board are even written by me. You endorsed a boycott of my web site, so I don't really even get the exposure for people who may actually promote my site in smart and interesting ways. I get nothing out of it, so thanks, but no thanks.

Maybe I should start a thread on some other board asking, "How much should I bill those fucking assholes for my time?", like you did when AVN asked you to be on a panel. I mean, I am learning great business skills from the best and brightest pillars of the industry here on GG&J, right?


My lord, there is so much stupid in this thread I could be up all night if I cared to respond to it all. But, I'm going to stay out of this tired old crap for now, because I'd rather go do any number of more stimulating and profitable things with my night. I'm tired of fueling tons of page views so people who hate me can make more money from advertisements.


(And for the record, although everyone loves to represent me as a militant TGP-hater, I am not anti-TGP or anti-submitter. But, I do seem to be the only one here who dares to say that TGPs and link lists are not the most important things in the universe. The cold hard fact is that maybe a dozen of my sales in three years have been the result of an affiliate promoting me on TGPs. So, the argument that I "owe" my business to TGPs is completely idiotic. Everyone does something, but sweet crap, you people need to get out more if you think that TGP galleries are the end-all be-all of the entire sex industry since the dawn of time. My business has only existed for 3 years, but in the grand scheme of things, being in this game for 6 years or 10 years isn't actually much different than 3. It's like hearing a 9 year old go on and on about he's so much bigger and smarter than his 8 year old brother.)

Ok, I just became really fucking offended.

I just wanted to offer a forum for the 2 of you to discuss things because I feel that I fucked up by not having you on personally & not have Alex on to represent himself. I am just trying to right a wrong because I feel bad about how the last show went. Hell, I'd even offer to get the 2 of you on the phone without the feed up & without my recorder on. That's how bad I feel about the last show.

You're relatively new here, so I'll explain some things to you about me - I don't give a flying fuck about the money this board or the radio show generate. Sure, it's nice, but I don't need it to survive. Posting on a board helping other webmasters started out as a hobby to me & that's exactly what it was from 1998 to 2003 when Jim convinced me to join him in this venture. Even when I had my own board at Netsurprise, I got ZERO money for running it. My only compensation was 1/2 the ads on the board, which I gave away to other board members that were helping (DDave, Cleo, Alex, Tommy, etc) As far as numbers or rating for the Radio Show, I honestly could not tell you how many people listen on a weekly basis - I just don't care. The one number that I know from the 27 months that the show has been on is 90 - that's the amount of people that listened to the MarcDe ARS show on February 24 2004. You think it's about numbers & sponsors? Fuck me! How often do you see Jim or me sending press releases about contests & whatnot to the PR machines that cover the adult webmaster side of the internet? For fuck sakes, we gave away Super Bowl tickets a couple years ago & the only coverage we got was from Klixxx, because they donated some money to the winner. We're NOT about numbers. We're NOT about money. We're a legit webmaster board that is here to help other webmasters. Plain & simple.

You're explaining why I thought you 2 should come on the show. Arguments like this tend to become big piles of shit if they are just on the board, but 2 people talking on the phone with Jim & I basically acting as moderators would be a lot better IMHO.

I assume that you are speaking of this thread: http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=28745 ????
If so, you are sadly fucking mistaken. I am not defending any boycott, I simply stated that I could care less what their reasons for removing the sites were. The only thing I care about is that he did what Link List owners ask Free Site submitters to do when they remove sites...to let us know so that we don't have 404's or 302's Endorsed a boycott? You show me where I endorsed any fucking boycott!

So you equate me wanting you & Alex to come on a Radio Show (that makes fuck all for money & has fuck all for listeners) to openly discuss an issue that you 2 have with each other to me speaking about traffic to 300 people at a seminar? Tell you what - I'll call you during the show and as long as you say just one word (it can be the "Hello" when you pick up the phone) and I'll give you my entire profit from Tuesday's show. It's $62.50...yippee! Same offer goes to Alex, but the price drops to $31.25/person :D

I swear to fucking God, the next ignorant ass that refers to the majority of people on this board with the acronym TGP is gonna get banned. We run Link Lists & build Free Sites. These 2 completely different aspects of the adult internet marketing world might be the same to you, but when you refer to me with "TGP", I can only equate that to me referring to you as either "content" or a "solo girl"

If you don't make any money of TGP's/Galleries or Link Lists/Free Sites, it's because your affiliate program is not set up to do so...which is fine. I don't give a flying fuck what your business model is, but if you wanted advice on what's wrong with it in the eyes of us "traffic" people, I'd give you all the advice I could free of charge (well, I would have yesterday - lol)

You have to remember that when you're here posting on this board, a vast majority of the people that you are talking to run Link Lists or submit Free Sites for a living. You can't bash our business model just because you don't understand it. I'd equate that to me going to an amateur board & bashing all the posters because of the vast number of things that I see amateurs sites doing that go against my business model. And believe me when I say that I am a HUGE supporter of the amateur community - I truly love real amateur porn. Ask around to any of the amateurs that have worked with me in the past - Torn & Kat are prime examples. While my role with amateurs may not be what it was when I had the amateur paysites, I am still a supporter, a fan & I do, believe it or not, understand a lot more about it than you think I do.

What a way to start a Saturday |thumb

Furrygirl, what can I say, you're an intelligent woman, but you have horrible people skills, at least when it comes to forum posting. A person can be opinionated, but at the same time be respectful of others. A person can be passionate about their views, but at the same time not take everything as a personal attack when someone disagrees.

I don't agree with people pulling your links, that's just silly, but I don't think you've done a very good job of representing yourself and a lot of business gets done on forums, even if it just seems silly most times, its where a lot of us form our business relationships.

GG is right, this is more of a LL / Freesite / Traffic forum, certainly not dominated with TGP owners...if you said some of your comments on a tgp board they would have tied you to a stake already and exploded a nair bomb under you (this is meant for the sake of levity and not to be taken seriously, lol)

Anyway, I think all this has exploded a bit out of proportion now. Your last comment is probably going to start a whole other clusterfuck, but honestly...shouldn't we all be getting back to work? :D

First off, your post is insulting because you sink down to name calling again. Can you not make a point without insulting someone first? Is that your game, to come off superior because you feel you crafted a sentence and hid an insult in the middle?

You and Trixie are two of a kind. Your answers are pretty much one and the same, and Trixie even seems to feel that she can speak for you in public. Your answers are the same, your opinions are within a hair of being the same, and your method of debating those points is right on the same. If I took a survey here, I suspect that many of the people would think you either work together or perhaps even live together in that UPS store PO Box where your 2257 records are.

Let's make this more interesting. Show me where I confused your comments. Actual quote, details, information... don't just push hot air or fast type your way out, bring the proof.

Good luck.

Anyway, you are managing to piss off more and more people are you go. Good way to get people on your side!

Alex

I have to agree....except for one thing. We make no money on the radio show. We mention Pussycash as a sponsor because we can't use the program in other ways we promote our sponsors.

Furrygirl, you are very young in this business. You have an awful lot to learn about getting along with people that can make you money. I don't care how much money you make now but with just a touch of people skills, you could have a lot more.

I will apologize to Torn in advance but, Furrygirl, you just acted like an asshole attacking GreenguyandJim for absolutely no reason at all. We have both been neutral in these discussions as we would have been on the Radio show.

I said to act professional and this quote from you is not professional.

"I get to defend myself to a bag of hot air who is too stupid to tell the difference between Trixie and myself and can't even keep track of why he's pissed off at me and which posts on the board are even written by me."

If you would like to continue to post on GreenguyandJim, do not attack the integrity of the site again. And, as hard as it seems for you to be, act professional.

Jim, careful. Torn is going to rip you a new asshole for calling Furrygirl "young". You should know that we should never judge people by age or experience!

Alex

Alex and Torn for that matter...I am just making a point. She is not acting as a professional and yet she wants to be treated like one. As I said, we have been neutral in this discussion. You can say anything you want about Greenguy. You can say anything you want about me. But, nobody is going to question the honor and/or integrity of GGandJ.

Greenguy graciously offered a fourum where both could air their grivences. You Alex, gratiously declined. Furrygirl, thought that having her on would pump up our numbers. We don't need no stinkin Radio Show numbers. It doesn't make us a dime.

And for Furrygirl to think so highly of herself, kind of makes me laugh. If we wanted to pump up our Radio Show numbers, we would have on a guest that someone outside of this board has heard of.

Jim, I figured out pretty quickly that going on the radio show would just mean another week of "RawAlex as pinata". There is little upside to going on, a ton of downside, so I declined directly. Going on the show to answer questions that are like "Have you stopped beating your dog yet?" just isn't something that is going to have much "up" to it.

My comment about "young" was meant as humor. You know I have been reamed out up and down for the same thing. I don't disagree with you, but the ass reaming isn't far off when you go down that road.

GG&J as a board has honor and integrity that can never be doubted (even as we make dump truck jokes). Nothing here is ever done with bad intentions or from a position of pur vengance, and many other webmaster chatboards could learn something from it.

Now if all the members could catch onto that, we would have something! :)

Alex

Alex if you want me in this please let me know, and then start off by telling everyone what you are really like and what you want to do to people who upset you and then I will be happy to jump in.

Torn, since you misunderstood my comments from the word go,posting and rehashing them here wouldn't be useful.

However, you might want to give Jim the same two barrels you gave me for pointing out (in private, I might add) my opinions as to the relative age of Furrygirl and her opinions.

No, wait... you only have an irrational hatred of me...

nevermind!

Alex

Furrygirl,
You never cease to amaze me. You want to come across like an educated, well rounded female, and by the time you are done with your condescending attitude and your name calling, you end up appearing to be a 10 yr old who just got told to share her toys and is standing in the corner pouting about it.
All very mature and well thought out comments!

Far be it for me to point out the obvious, but perhaps it was the content that didn't sell your site, and NOT the galleries that were submitted.

I think the most amusing part of your post was to think you are all that and a bag of chips in comparison with GG and being invited ANYWHERE for a fee.

I was an advisor on ANS back when GG had his board there, and he ran that board simply to help people get their start in this biz. That was 2001 and he had been around quite a while, and had quite a strong biz going even then. Then there is you, bragging about being around for 3 years. Your comparison is much like someone giving me my choice...I can pay $100.00 to go see the Tennessee Titans play football, or I can pay $100.00 to see Kingsport Central High play football. Hmm, no brainer, one has draw, the other appeals to a small few who happen to like the high school team.

Apparently with all your worldly wisdom of the internet biz, and your superior intelligence (in your opinion) you have missed out on one of the most valuable assets in this business. PEOPLE and CONTACTS, and the relationships that come from them! You appear to want to make it even harder on yourself by pushing people away. Those very people could be promoting you but you would rather show your ass on a consistant basis so as to make that happen as little as possible.

Stand behind your words alex.

I was staying out of this just like I stayed out of the very beginning of this since at the time it all started it was between two friends and anything I had to say to either of you I would say in private, which is what I did with you which is where I learned the true you.

So either keep my name out of this or be the man you claim you are and stand behind the words you said and don't start the crap "I misunderstood you" since we know you was not misunderstood. In fact if you think I misunderstood them why not share them here?

Thought so.

Anyway if you and FG want to kill each other that is none of my concern, you seem to obsessed with her and Trixy and have been for the last 3 plus months so I would rather stay out of it, but if you really want me in this, you start off and tell everyone the WHOLE story on how I got involved in the first place and where it ended up going, as I said I have nothing to hide and will be happy to repeat anything I said in private once you do the same since I have absolutely nothing to hide.

If not, keep my name out of it, it really is that simple.

Torn, your name is in it only because (a) on the radio show you ripped me a new asshole because (in private) I opinionated about Furrygirl's age and experience, and (b) because Jim just made a similar comment.

You totally, utterly, and without a doubt misunderstood my comments, so much so that you cancelled travel plans and didn't go to see your friends because you didn't understand what I had said.

Now you have nothing but a huge grudge against me, and are more than willing to bring the content of private conversations into the public eye and to spew about them in public. You got on the radio show and spewed more venom than anyone I can remember from anyone in a long, long time. You could have left well enough alone, but you, and you alone chose to have another round.

That is your choice, it isn't mine. Everything posted here is about stuff you have posted or said in public forums, and has nothing to do with what has been discussed in private. If you want to violate private conversions, that is up to you. But I suspect that most people here would look down on you the same way they look down at people who share private email or ICQ conversations.

You need to grow a new sense of humor, because your last one was apparently lost in your move to Florida.

Alex

Yes, Torn is in this whether he wants to be or not, because he was on the radio show on Tuesday, which is my fault because I sorta egged him on. It didn't take a degree in psychology to know that when I saw a PM from Torn about the "feminist" chat room title, that I could get "good radio" out of it by nudging him a bit.

So blame me - I've asked for this blame since Wednesday & I will gladly take it.

Warning, It's a long one
 

I avoid these things unless something really bothers me and this is one of them.

The attack on Greenguy was uncalled for. Yes, there are forum members here that unreasonable, but that is any where you go, the board I use to frequent has a ton of those. In fact, Greenie use to post there until he realized that no one there was actually interested in business and just wanted to flame each and act like they were still in high school.

Greenguy is someone who legitimately wants to help people with the sharing of knowledge and is open to different view points and opinions. He has helped more people then it will ever be known publicly. He is also one of the few who will come out and say that he fucked up.

The radio show is a place where people in the business can socialize, shot the breeze with out spending ton money at a convention. I think DocHolly describe it best on her blog when she called it is a kind of Wayne’s World, but online. It is a way to know that you aren’t the only one out there in the business, heck the majority of the time the discussions aren’t even business, just bs. But if a good top on business pops up, then hell yeah lets discuss that. It is much more beneficial.

Greenguy and Jim try to do what is right, not just do it for the money.

Yes, there are tpg’ers here, but there is huge amount of free sites & link lists. This forum is made for anyone who is open to learning and conduct business.

Yes, as independent sites the way we draw income maybe very different from the others in this forum. But there is no reason why it can’t be utilized and analyzed for a way to work together. It has worked very well for us and we made some very good contacts and friends from this board, even if we don’t use the same business model.

Greenie never said he supported the boycott. He was respecting a submitter’s right to do what he felt he had to do. And as a linklist owner, it makes it easier for him to take care of his surfers by removing bad links. I didn’t agree with CrazySy decision, but I respect his right to make it. I sure didn’t care for the childish bumps that were made to that thread, reminded me of another board that I avoid for its pettiness and trash talking.

Greenguy was giving you an opportunity to address the issues yourself in a different form, because we all know that things do not get expressed properly through the boards and goes down in flames. Even with some members of the board, they are too bitter not to attack no matter how reasonable you come across.

There are many good very points you had brought up and I agree with and yes, I feel that you have been unfairly attacked on several occasions, but the attack on Greenguy was totally unreasonable and uncalled for.

I’m very proud to call Greenguy a close friend of ours.

Greenguy, you cannot make people who are not angry suddenly become angry because you put them on a soap box. People have to come to the table with a chip on their shoulder or anger in their belly before the poisonous spew that came out of the radio show can happen.

Your only blame lies in not stopping it or putting a plug in it, and instead dragging Trixie on the air to build it even bigger. Any attempts at defense and redirection were overwhelmed by venom and nasty personal comments.

I am not going to add anything more to this (or much of anything else). I am not so blind as to see what is what, and I have received the message loud and clear.

Alex

Thank you Kat |smooch|

*****

I still say I nudged him a bit :)

FG. I don't see how you can flame GG&J for speaking their minds and being honest. Hell GG has stood up and is taking the blame here. The way you confront members of this board only shows how open they are to letting people speak their minds. On any other board you would have been banned a long time ago 1) for bashing the owner of the board and 2) bashing other members the way you do. You proved my point, in my post. Your first response in this thread and you could not help yourself, you had to insult someone.
You have proven to everyone that you have mastered the english language and grammar, along with being very smart. No one doubts that. But as intelligent as your posts are, they still hold close and underlying immaturity. It's hard for anyone to side with you, when you post so emotionally but yet so childish.

What show did you listen to? Trixie was on, not furrygirl :)

Sorry, that post took me ten miutes to write, i just smoked some weed and was thinking radio show in my head. Sorry I'll edit it. Lesson here, do not post when high lol.

You're welcome. |boobies|

Nudging him on doesn't always take much. He does it to me all the time, kind of fun seeing you do it to him. :D

A good example of how things get blown way out of proportion sometimes:

I just re-read the thread referred to above in GGs post, and I didn't see anything anywere that even smelled of any kind of "boycott." It was one webmaster deciding to stop promoting a program and thus pulling the sites...and doing what all LL owners ask...posting that he's pulling the sites. I stop promoting sponsors regularly for various reasons, and when I do I pull any sites that promote them. Sometimes it's because the program owner makes statements in public that make me, personally, not want to be associated with the program anymore. I DID NOT see anything in that thread looking like Sy implying that anyone else shouldn't promote the program...in fact he went out of his way to state the opposite.

Guess who was the first person to escalate the drama with the use of the word "boycott"...

Like it or not the personal relationships we develop or destroy have a lot to do with who we choose to promote.

i dont see the "sy dropping sites thread" as an boycot, yes i showed my personal feelings there "what i never may do as an reviewer" funny thing is i didnt even readed the threads involved i only heard from others because this "radio thing thread" and the Feminist thread" are both realy the big talk on icq. SY had all the right to drop the sites, yes i didnt agree, but he may do that, and yes it was a very good thing from him to post the sites instead of an 404 or whatever, i was so stupid to ask ( and yeah i knew what he was going to say) and i should have kept my mouth shut there and just acked like an good reviewer and say "oke Sy i will remove the sites". The last days the board is almost only about the radio thing the fight between the people involved, i just hope it will all work out, i like some little fights on boards, but i do prefer the just normal gg and jim board with funny, teasing, joking, and bizz threads. mmmmm and now again, i ealy dont know if i use the right words here, but i just hate, the insulting and name calling or waht ever in thread which can go on and on.:(