But the quality of that traffic would be much better... When revenues drop enough, some of the bigger sites will try this.

Dare - ya hit on a point thats been on my mind for a long time - and that is that the sponsors expect that their sites get advertised for free by us - by linking the submitters sites - we dont get jack for that service - and for that matter the submitter never gets really whats due them but thats another thread.
Im sure someone will bring up the argument that without the submitters, we wouldnt have sites to link to - we all know thats not true - between the sponsors giving away hosted free sites and galleries we have more than enough to load a well run TGP or LL - added of course to the pool of LL/TGP owners own free sites and galleries - hell - thats why most TGPs dont need submits from outside - they get enough to list everyday just from their trusted friends that run other TGPs.
The rampant explosion of sponsors lately has been due to the fact that they dont have to budget for advertising, other than to drag more WMs to their programs on boards like this - which is why theyve been able to cut way back on their staffing - the people that used to do the pushing of sites to the public for them arent needed right now.
Theyve about driven some of the best content companies out of the biz with their free giveaways - WMs dont need to buy content anymore for their own advertising.

I totally agree that the people with the traffic need to start getting back to the old model of advertising - some still do it with certain banner placements on som LLs and TGPs, but that is definitely becoming a minority. Its time for sponsors to meet the real world.

One point I left out - Im still of the firm belief that the sponsors should be the ones paying for the submitters to be able to submit to places that now charge - why should a hard-working WM have to pay for the traffic thats going to the sponsor and hope that this weeks ratios might give them a sale - after scrubbing and other things that the sponsors might do

HMM I would love to get my submit pass in the ars rewards store

I was going to ask Karen if I could buy a submit pass with points. Either way you get paid, and it's a chance to get your traffic to their sites as well. You should contact them.

Linkster, this is not quite a true statement. As I stated above, the sponsors are paying for advertising - revenuse share or pay per signup. I agree that if you don't list hosted sites from the sponsor that you 'don't get jack'. Unless the sponsor is submitting directly to you, they are paying for advertising either to you for listing the hosted site or to the submitter for building and submitting to you.

And again as I stated above, I agree 'the submitter never gets really whats due them'

I am pretty sure the owners of pk, worldsex, AND the hun are already millionaires. Do you know how much they make in just ad revenue alone? Including affiliate payouts, the owners of those sites are already millionaires. I would bet money on that.

As far as charging surfers to access content that is not your own, truly and really is, copyright infringement and a number of other legal things. I mean...it's an interesting idea..but it's not a good one.

I disagree on the legal side as I know of plenty of major portals for usenet posts that require you to pay for their listings - you are not requiring them to pay for the content - you are collecting money for your work of putting the links together - cataloging them.
If you want to talk about copyright infringement - I would suggest looking at the cached results that Google and Yahooo serve from their servers - plain copies of your work - thats a little closer to being true infringement but still wouldnt hold up in court

I guess Im still out of the loop here - the revshare or pay per sale is paid to the submitter (sometimes) wheras I dont get anything for sending that traffic to the submitters site and eventually to the sponsor - leave the advertising that is done on the linklist or tgp out of the loop for a minute as that is an entirely different issue that we've kinda lumped together here (I did it too)
Dependant on the submitters selling ability, the sponsor is giving them something - not very much when you compare it to mainstream advertising even on the main side of the web.
The work of the linklist or tgp owner is totally free to both the sponsor - and currently the submitter in most places - I think the overall idea here is that we can charge the submitter (which in my mind has always been the last option) or charge the sponsor for clicks delivered to the submitter - then its up to the sponsor to really help the submitter improve his sale ratios like they used to :)

Even Greenguy said it, it just doesn't seem legal. Just my opinion and a few others. You have a point though, Linkster.


I suppose the only person who would REALLY know the answer is a lawyer with specialization in this sort of area.

But you get the traffic due to the content infested sites being built and submitted by free site builders. There is an important relationship here that everyone is missing. Submitters/builders can't make a dime without link list and TGP traffic. But the link lists and TGPs only have traffic due to years of good sites and galleries being built and submitted. Sure, you could go ahead and stop accepting submissions and list only FHGs and HFSs, but you know that that will kill your search engine traffic due to the lack of back linking and decrease bookmarkers because of the lack of quality.

The loop is closing.

Exactally, either to the sumitter or you as the LL owner if you list the hosted sites. Regarless, of who the sponsors pays the revshare or PPS, it is part of the sponsors' advertising budget.

Now don't tell me that in your brick and motar business that your adverising makes up 50+% of your total budget.

True, unless you are using the sponsors' HFS/Galleries and/or charging the submitter for listing. Tommy has stated that the 'submit charge' was successful.

This tread started as being a discussion on charging the surfer. Just assume these things - LLs and TGPs charge a submit fee paid by the submitter; they charge the surfers to view the submits including HFS/Galleries and as stated the sponsor is paying thru revshare/PPS. Who is not getting compensated? You can not charge the sponsors for PPC and expect them to pay revshare/PPS to the submitter.

When I started my little program, I asked Dr B if he rather me pay his charge for submitting or would it be better on him to list the hosted galleries. He stated that let him list the hosted galleries - that way if we made in sales he would be happy and I would also. My point is that we were both gambling - me that he would list the hosted galleries and him as to where I could convert the traffic he sent me to sales.

Repeating myself from another post in this tread, this biz has three groups that need to be in sync - LL/TGP owners, submitters and sponsors. I think Tommy's orginal thought implies and I agree - the surfers are the one that is getting the free ride.

You nailed it. Greed will kill all three groups.

ya know I use to think that FHG killed your Se Chances but in the last 6 months I have found that not to be true

Tommy, I think that google and don't really care what you list, as long as you list a variety. Smarter programs are using real URLs on their galleries, while others are still using "dailygallery.cig?gallery=20585" which isn't such a good idea.

For a TGP, I think that premade sponsor galleries are a great thing, to a point. When everyone has the exact same things listed, it is pointless.

Alex

This idea was brought up on GFY a few months ago & the guy got crucified for this very reason. A lot of exclusive content producers were not too happy with his idea to use their content in his own quasi-paysite.

Personally, I'd submit anywhere with pre-qualified traffic like that. |headbang|

So is anyone gonna test this out? The pre-qualified traffic would definately be a marketers wet dream. :D

It'd also be smart to get the sponsors onboard instead of hoping they're OK with it. Come up with some additional incentives for them, like feature their different paysites everywhere inside for a week/month, etc. |pink

Most of us with well-established links lists have nice Google-rankings. It would have to hurt to put your list behind security.

there are 3 different models to do this (i admit, i was thinking to do this with some of my sites in the past):

1. you charge for access to your linklist: this should not be a problem at all as submitters must agree to your tos anyway. the content and everything is hosted on the "free" site as normal. What you will get is very high quality traffic from submissions and the ll/tgp owner probably will loose a lot of traffic.

2. you keep your site as usual, but use a gateway between the link and the free site/gallery. here you charge for gallery access. this should not be a problem if you use a textlink. but it probably can be a problem if you are using thumb previews. However, what you will get is that the linklist will not loose as much traffic as in (1.) and you could use clever marketing like tgfind who let you see 3 samples and then asked for email (in 2001) or payment (after 2001). this is probably the sort of thing most of you are thinking of as a good model.

3. (not a real option) you load the content from your site or in frames like some tgps/lls do. this is a problem anyway whether surfers pay for access or not.

yes, this is what i consider the avs model.

the access to the galleries/free sites could be managed by each ll/tgp individually or by a 3rd party system, which would be 4rth party processing then (eg the system was using ccbill).


CLICK HERE TO ADD YOUR LL TO OUR LINKLIST SYSTEM ;)


however, if established it would not have serious consequences for free porn.

This makes me think of an AVS.

The people who actually pay the fee are much more easier to upsell to because they've already pulled the card out and paid for porn

I have a silly question, as I often do. Have you thought out the recip link situation? Say Mr. Dingle enters a free site on the eternally free link-o-rama, on his scroll down the warning page he zooms in on the recip for a Scrote's Links, a non-free link list, and clicks-thru. Now he is confronted with something that is, for all intents and purposes, a paysite.

Wouldn't the recip for a link list which charges become considered a sponsor link out?

Also, shouldn't the link list then have to have an affiliate program to pay webmasters for bringing traffic to their sites?

What goes around, comes around.

This idea is not so far fetched, with PayAsYouClick you can do it. And get paid for sending the referrals as an affiliate of PayAsYouClick.

Imagine starting off with a section that surfers have to pay to enter, you could eventually remove the free section. (Sort of wean them off the free stuff.) This indeed may be the way to make free porn less available.

- cheryl

well i not in tgp or LL. but i look at it like this. music was free for years on the internet. then people had to charge for it and still people always look for the free music. i think this would be a really hard sale. i mean if i wanted to sign up for something why not just sign up to a really good porn site that offers weekly updates. the only thing the i can see the tgp or the LL would offer is more varity and daily updates. could be a good selling point but i dont know. for me as a surfer i would feel very scared to pay for a tgp or LL. to many times i have gone to them to only find pop ups out the ying yang, and someone trying to install spyware on my box. i would be very pissed if anything other then a cookie got installed and i was paying for the service. just me. im not the pro just the surfer.

Is it the end of January again?

I can't wait to have my Super Bowl party :D

LOL. no shit. why did this thread get resurected?

The username and web site of the resurectee gives a pretty good clue to the why, a topic to post to where it wouldn't look like blatant |spam|

I think this would be a great project for someone to start with a NEW tgp

juggernaut, I am suggesting clean galleries, no popups nothing secretly installed, not even blind links.

Bret, and Greenguy I thought the thread deserved a reawakening in the light that it is possible to turn TGP / MGP and other free sites into money making opportunities. And since PayAsYouClick is now starting to seek to advertise on boards it is always nice to know how friendly those boards are to new ideas.

Thanks,

- Cheryl

PayAsYouClick - we're not that friendly when threads like this are brought back to life as if you just found it, when in reality you were contributing to it back when it was popular 15 weeks ago & only brought it back to life to spam your program.

So it really is possible to make money doing this? I had no idea.

I appologize if I came across as spamming. I am new to the company, and in my search to find what to post and where to post I am discovering older threads that were missed by the company that I feel are relevant.

|bow|

with appologies

- cheryl

PS, I am serious about advertising. Please send me an email of your rates to:
cheryl@payasyouclick.com

cheryl - maybe you should read the entire thread before you post, as the username "PayAsYouClick" has posted to this thread numerous times, which means your company did not miss this thread.

Yes, there are many ways you can make money with this concept.

1.) Just send referrals to the program. ( You will earn 50% of whatever they spend where ever they spend it in the system. -- As far as I know, no other billing company offers this kind of payout.)

2.) You can create a section on your TGP / MGP or Link List site and charge for the surfer to see it.

3.) You can use your own content to create a 2nd chance for those who do not take your full membership.

4.) You can use your own content to create sites that offer part of the content for a small fee and an upsell to the full month's version

No signup fees and nothing to lose but a few hours of time designing and setting it up.

If you would like more info please ask or email me.

Thanks for your interest.

- cheryl

I think this is a great thread and I am glad someone woke it up

I hate you Tommy :D

I am sorry, you are correct, I did not read the entire thread, I read the initial post and some of the first page.

I would like to be friends here.

Thank you Tommy.

- Cheryl

this is a good subject...
that pay as you click program could work out really nice for gallerys if a smart webmaster worked on it

think about posting a gallery of really sweet content
you put 15 pics on the free gallery/site
and then tell them there are 100 more pics to this set and they can download the rest of the pics in a zip file for 2 bucks or 10 cents a pic

Good point, but to be real honest, all a TGP / MGP sites need to do to earn some cash is to send traffic the site list to accrue referrals. Those that are referred by the webmaster are his/hers to keep - each referral will net 50% of the sale to the referral. There is no reason why every TGP does not have a link to send traffic to the site list at PayAsYouClick. It is just another money making opportunity.

- Cheryl

True, but getting webmasters to cough up some dough for the privilege of submitting and getting surfers to cough up even one dollar is two very different things.

I think most surfers would look for other sites that aren't charging a fee.