Well, I was exaggerating momentary feelings of queasiness. I don't really feel that way.

I think I was trying to say something about how this situation is so extreme, and the political spinning and illusion-making on all sides is so extreme, that it's impossible to know how to feel about it.

Can't trust the media.

Can't trust the government.

FEMA wants me to give money to Operation Blessing and Second Harvest.

The reports of gunfire at helicopters are shown to be lies. The reports that Gov. Blanco didn't "file the proper paperwork", which filled the media, are shown to be lies. Someone created and coldly used those lies.

And the implications of what CaptainJ appears to be saying are depressing.

It's a crazy, ugly, sad situation. In situations like this, who knows if it's right to give money, and if the money you give will be used properly?

well actually when i first read that response i was like surely he is being sarcastic.. then when RA weighed in, i was like hmmm i must be having a "old-timers" moment and just not getting it..


I would consider the source of the information as well. Even eye witness accounts can differ depending on whose eyes are doing the viewing.

docholly, I wain't kidding... I don't feel great. Thankfully I gave money to the Red Cross rather than to any other organization, they seem to be have been first on the scene (even losing some of the vehicles to flooding... FEMA can't even suggest to claim that).

There is some very serious concern that someone important dropped the ball, and already the signs of coverup and misdirection are in the air. I feel truly sorry for those people caught in the middle - the people of Mississippi and Louisiana who are dealing with terrible conditions and horrific losses of both life and property.

The smell is travelling very far indeed.

In the "for what it's worth category" I've seen alot of Red Cross folks in Baton Rouge, Sorrento, and New Orleans over the last 2 days.

Also, New Orleans police reported shooting and killing 4 persons who were firing at workers who were trying to plug the hole in the levee.

Local news that you guys may not be aware of:

-- Lt. General Russel Honore, who is overseeing the military effort in New Orleans, estimates about 10,000 people remain in the city. He says the city is not under siege, as has been reported.

-- Wireless carriers are returning service to the New Orleans area. Verizon Wireless said crews are working to restore service to New Orleans, Mandeville, Hammond, Covington and other cities. Cell phone service has been restored to the New Orleans airport, which is being used for evacuations.

-- The Murphy Oil complex in Meraux is leaking oil into a surrounding neighborhood. The leak was spotted in a flyover by the state Department of Environmental Quality.

-- Traffic was jammed in Jefferson Parish as residents returned to check on their homes and businesses. People started lining up in their cars in the night to get a head start into the parish. The parish permitted cars in at 6 a.m.

-- ExxonMobil, which was worried about supplies to its refinery in Baton Rouge, now is increasing production here. Energy experts fear an energy crisis will take an economic toll this winter because of production and refining disruptions combined with an expected harsh winter. ExxonMobil expects an increase in supply of oil from the Louisiana Offshore Oil Port, a critical facility that is used to offload oil from supertankers. The port in Venice was not damaged in the storm. ExxonMobil also says the U.S. Department of Energy has approved a request to borrow 6 million barrels of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve

A list of alternative places to donate funds: http://www.sparkplugfoundation.org/katrinarelief.html

I'm glad I donated to the Red Cross and I'm proud to know that many webmasters on this board also donated. It tells me unlike some people that were slow to respond in this disaster, webmasters here responded quickly and generously.

People believe what they want to believe and sometimes what we end up believing can be so far from the truth its scary.

I'm not down in NO nor was I with George Bush on Monday so I'm not going to pretend I know shit about what's going on just because I have access to a TV set and the internet.

Hey, a buddy of mine is in the National Guard and he called and said that the military has shot 9 people so far for looting. He also said that the Army Rangers are in there now. Also, he walked Bourbon Street and said it doesn't even look like a hurricane came thru...said no water and it was clean!

For anyone that is still interested, following is a copy of an article that a friend of mine sent to her e-mail list:

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure

out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them,

because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going

on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think

that we are confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is

obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation

to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop

the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists,

natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary

people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of

doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up

and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to

do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they

are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself

included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind,

and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by

federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane

Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel

has gotten the story wrong.

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not

happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades.

Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be

confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave

in an emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in

other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have

been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is

not even what we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion.

They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously

organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in

America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own

initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of

us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town

whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get

out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars

through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of

New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a

description from a Washington Times story:

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists,

knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and

police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.

"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured

in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened

Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with

shoot-to-kill orders.

"'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,'

she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops

know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if

necessary and I expect they will.' "

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article

shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an

armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of

squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It

looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for

an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to

storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the

drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to

attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further

destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help

them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a

sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News

Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She

studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is

located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert

Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in

America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for

uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since,

mercifully, been

demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a

whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the

informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news

channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the

residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and

of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city's

public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional,

crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had

no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so they

just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap

between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the

jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the

deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from

two

groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over

decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The

welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent

administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of

the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the

city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city

corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure

the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political

supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of

emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact,

some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for

example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans

had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an

execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and

Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American

"individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was

caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the

welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is

behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the

responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to

a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to

overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain

that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos

of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about

saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own

anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their

businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried

about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But

living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains

and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral

ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one

is reporting.

You do know that most of the news agencies are now saying the stories of armed gangs, rapes, and shooting at rescuers have been proven to be false, or at best, unsupported?

I've been looking for hard, confirmed evidence of crimes like these. So far, there has been almost nothing.

There has been suggestions that these stories were invented, I gather the prime suspect is FEMA and "anonymous senior officials" to justify their inaction.

Has anyone seen hard news stories confirming "Road Warrior" type shit?

Nice article Captain.

The problem isn't with the welfare state, because America isn't one. Among all the countries in Western civilization that we like to compare us with America is the one that cares least about the welfare of the individual.

I suspect most of us would have acted like animals after a while if left to our own devices in a disaster stricken city. It's a typical American response to "shoot to kill" rather than address the cause of the problem. It's also probably cheaper in the short term and has the added benefit of thinning out the population of stupid, incompetent, lazy, drunken fucks in the public housing projects. It's a win-win situation.

Here's my response to that: Fuck the governor of Louisiana, who, from her dry safety in Baton Rouge, advocates a shoot to kill policy against people with no other means who help themselves to baby formula, bread and soda in an effort to stay alive.

Anyone who still denies incompetence at local, regional and national levels in connection with Katrina really hasn't been paying attention. Or they're just plain dumb.

The same goes for anyone who doesn't see the connection here with the racial divide America still is struggling with some 140 years after slavery was abolished. Imagine had this happened in Boston MA or Westchester County, NY. But it happened in NOLA, a city with 60% mostly poor, dumb, black crack heads. I'm beginning to see where Neil Young got his inspiration from.

Besides the same old, "Do we blame those poor black crackheads, or do we blame the rich white cokehead running the country?" debate, does any have any leads for groups that are taking on-the-ground volunteers WITHOUT medical training?

I've been looking for days, and I can not find a group who does human or animal rescues in flooded areas that accept non-professionals. Seriously, do really I need a degree to be able to round up stray dogs or pass out blankets? It's incredibly frustrating that with the current bottle-necking of resources coming in to the area, everyone wants money, but not personel. I don't drive or own a car, I don't have a boat, I don't live in the south, but surely there's some sort of formal project that needs actual physical help.

furry girl
http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer...cane_volunteer
although no one is gonna allow someone to enter the city to rescue animals without training right now - there are plenty of volunteer jobs available in the area - someone needs to care for these animals as they are brought in and for someone that hasnt been trained in the handling of possible rabid, contaminated animals, it would be suicide to try the rescue phase - but the shelters are begging for volunteers to take care of the animals

Lemmy - the problem is that (having lived there and going back constantly) New Orleans is a welfare state - true the rest of the country is not on average but there are pockets in Wash DC, Chicago, etc - and I think the point here is that what was left after the initial call for evacuation was a complete welfare state.
The interesting comment I heard yesterday - and most people have missed this - the murder/rape/injury rate in New Orleans that youve been hearing about (possibly blown out of proportion for news casts but thats another topic) is way lower than the normal rate for that city - all the tourists and cabbies are gone so they dont have anyone to kill.
The gang related violence is a hidden, but definitely a huge part of New Orleans - it doesnt get a lot of publicity - they would lose the convention and tourism trade if it was publicized.
Most of the people that are causing the problems that are being reported are the gangs that dont want to lose their "turf" and are protecting it - the police units know who they are - and are trying to deal with them - but its tough when you still have a quarter of the police force out of communication (not their fault - its a command and control issue with the mayor) and still holing up in certain parts of the city as separate "police forces" that are slowly being brought back into the response organization - its just a matter of getting them the comms and directing the separate "precincts" into one force.

I also disagree that it has anything whatsoever to do with race - its class - and that is something the city just did not plan for - no matter what the politics and news spinners spew - it is just a logistical fact that the class of people that are still there are not people with the means to get themselves out of the city - and every city in this country has the same problem - they dont have a plan to evacuated "everyone" - they depend on personal vehicles for most of it.
The only difference in this case against other cities is that New Orleans is actually a smaller city and we are just lucky this was not a city like NYC where we would be facing hundreds of thousands of deaths - something to think about.

Thanks for the link, I've already emailed every animal group in the area, although HSUS and the ASPCA seem to be the only ones at the timewho are being allowed into disafter areas. No one's gotten back to me yet, and as far as I can tell from message boards, there simply are no openings for non-pros in animal or human aid.

If I lived down there, I'd be happy to open my yard to a bunch of dogs, but as a non-driver, trying to get dehydrated, hungry, sick, possibly injured animals to my home in Seattle would be too much of a headache.

I've actually gotten quite a biting from a (possibly rabid) stray cat before and been through rabies treatments, so it is a risk I'm truly aware of the pain of. I've known a few people who have done animal rescues in SoCal after major fires, and it's pretty much being scratched to hell, fighting with scared, injured animals who have found themselves their own safe place and don't want anyone touching them. It's not a fun vacation, and it's not about snuggling with cuddly wuddly puppies and kittens. Animals, like humans, tend to go a bit feral when left to completely fend for themselves.

Linkster....what you said. You hit the nail on the head.

It's too bad that you folks can only watch the national news where each station is striving hard to scream "the sky is falling" the loudest and with the most emphasis on each and every word. We have a local station that is much more unbiased. We're seeing pictures from New Orleans that are filmed by locals. We're hearing stories from folks that we know that are in New Orleans right now, who are calling us, and telling us what is actually going on.

None of the authorities are shooting folks looting for food and water. There are stores in New Orleans, Walmart is one of them, that opened their doors and are giving away food and bottled water.

Nah, the looters that the authorities are ordered to shoot are the ones that are trying to take advantage of the situation. The ones that are stealing electronics and other valuables. The people that don't want to leave because, for them, it is a huge oportunity to steal.

My ex-wife's cousin stayed throughout the storm in Metarie, but left 2 days ago because she saw looters every night breaking into homes around her.

Well, I've been looking for news reports to confirm that there was murder, armed gangs, rampaging and rapes. So far nothing, but the day is young.

I did find this first hand report by two EMS folks who were trapped in a hotel by Katrina.

I think we all heard the story about how this group pooled money to hire a bus convoy to take them out of the city, but that the national guard stopped the busses and commandeered them for some unknown (to the news sources) use.

Well, this same group had a hard time, spending four days trapped inside the city.

http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman/pub...le_18337.shtml

Here's a bit from the article:

"From a woman with a battery powered radio we learned that the media was talking about us. Up in full view on the freeway, every relief and news organizations saw us on their way into the City. Officials were being asked what they were going to do about all those families living up on the freeway? The officials responded they were going to take care of us. Some of us got a sinking feeling. "Taking care of us" had an ominous tone to it.

Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the sinking City) was correct. Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed up, jumped out of his patrol vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces, screaming, "Get off the fucking freeway". A helicopter arrived and used the wind from its blades to blow away our flimsy structures. As we retreated, the sheriff loaded up his truck with our food and water.

Once again, at gunpoint, we were forced off the freeway. All the law enforcement agencies appeared threatened when we congregated or congealed into groups of 20 or more. In every congregation of "victims" they saw "mob" or "riot". We felt safety in numbers. Our "we must stay together" was impossible because the agencies would force us into small atomized groups."

So - the authorities apparently _STOLE_ this groups food and water to force them out of the public eye.

On the local news, the New Orleans police chief just confirmed that his officers were shot at from the Superdome.

Also, the news confirmed that locals are throwing rocks at the National Guardsmen.

Gotta tell ya...the more I hear, I'm kinda embarrassed about our governor. I hear that the President gave her two options, and she told him she needed 24 hours to think about it. Apparently, she is having problems making decisions.

Well, here is a reference to a "shoot out".

The only shoot out that I've seen clearly mentioned on the TV news was an incident where supposedly armed men "on a briedge" fired at rescue workers, and the police fired back. The first report was the 5 locals had been killed, that was later revised to 2 killed, two wounded, and others missing.

One version of this I heard in a blog was that the men who were killed were not firing _at_ rescue workers, they were firing in the air to attract the attention of rescue workers. The police then fired on them. Not sure if this is true, but it does match some television reports I've seen, in which Nawliners were complaining that they were shot at after firing guns to attract help.

I'm not sure if this is the same incident:

From Reporters Sans Frontiers

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=14894

Police violence against journalists in New Orleans in Katrina aftermath

"A second incident involved Gordon Russell of the New Orleans-based Times-Picayune daily as he was covering a shoot-out between police and local residents near the convention centre where hurricane victims were awaiting evacuation. The police detained Russell and smashed all of his equipment on the ground. Russell was forced to flee to avoid further violence and reportedly left the city the same day."

Does the local channel you are watching have a website Jeff?

As far as I'm concerned, Louisiana can shoot or imprision anybody they want to. It's not my state, and not my city. I don't live in the city. I assumed all cities have a hard core of poor and lower class people who commit most of the casual crime.

I'm just interested in the facts.

Bill - nola.com has about the best news that seems to be accurate - they are the website of the Times-Picuyane (the NO newspaper) - there is also a small blog being run by the guys at DirecNic downtown at mgno.com - kinda isolated but they do have a birds eye view of the business district

You have heard her explantion, haven't you? She says that the president wanted her to hand over all authority for the area, possibly for the whole state. to the federal government, and I believe allow them to declare martial law.

She says she didn't believe it was in the best interests of the State of Louisiana to hand over the state to the federal government, and that she didn't want martial law to be declared.

There apparantly is a lot of backstory - about her thinking this was a CYA move by the pres, who could then ride in as a conquering hero and blame the state entirely for the delay.

There are two sides to every story.

First off - lets get something straight as there has been a lot of misuse of terms here:
Martial Law isnt something a local government can request - it can be done by the president or recommended by his local area commander -
http://www.washingtonwatchdog.org/do...501.html#501.4

Secondly - the military cannot act as law enforcement by law in the US - unless congress specifically authorizes it under the Posse Comitatus Act:
http://www.nwc.navy.mil/library/3Pub...ibpossecom.htm

That said - A declaration of a "state of emergency" was made by the Governer prior to the hurricane coming ashore - that gave the President power to mobilize FEMA and the Coast Guard to assist locals

The real issue here is that the civilian population of this country thinks that the all mighty US government can just march in and do what it needs to do to help - by law it is specifically prohibited from doing just that - we fucking fought a civil war 150 years ago because of those laws - to prevent the government from telling states how to run their business - I know everybody thinks the issue was slavery - it wasnt - read the real history sometime.

I hate that sometimes we think that they should help out and they have even overstepped their bounds in many cases (like Fla hurricanes) - but those cases all used Natl Guard - which in this case took a few days to mobilize since there werent any available except for the soldiers in Miss - who were a little busy with their own problems

I'm not sure I'm understanding your point, Linkster.

Would you elaborate?

I'm willing to stipulate that the Governor and the Mayor were incompetent. It's fine with me if Louisianans want to string them up. A people gets the government it deserves.

But, this storyline of the Governor blocking the Presidents offer of help has been talked about quite a bit, and as I said, there is supposedly more to the story than the damning headlines rolling across the screen two to four days ago.

If you want to blame Lousianans, the Louisiana Democrats, and the local responders, that's fine with me.

If you think FEMA and the Bush administration did a fine job, well, I think you are bug fucking nuts, and I'm wondering what the fuck you saw in person that wasn't on my TV screen.

Here is the Washington Post article that was the original source to the blogosphere discussions:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...090301680.html

Note the source of my statement about "martial law". I knew that there was a concern about declaring martial law that was part of the debate, altho I didn't remember the particulars clearly:

"Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law."

This is the part of the article that is relevant to this issue:

"Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.

"The federal government stands ready to work with state and local officials to secure New Orleans and the state of Louisiana," White House spokesman Dan Bartlett said. "The president will not let any form of bureaucracy get in the way of protecting the citizens of Louisiana."

Blanco made two moves Saturday that protected her independence from the federal government: She created a philanthropic fund for the state's victims and hired James Lee Witt, Federal Emergency Management Agency director in the Clinton administration, to advise her on the relief effort."

First off Bill - that article has quite a few false statements in it - I guess the one that stands out is that the state of emergency wasnt declared "as of Saturday" - this is misinformation being promulgated through the Bush press aides - she did declare a state of emergency at 5 pm on Friday - the rest can also be disproven with actual statements that were put out on publicly broadcast tv statements in New Orleans.
This writer BTW is rewriting an article that came out on a blog written by a guy in Florida who made the whole thing up.

As far as the state not wanting aid - that is from what Im seeing not a correct statement either - according to news reports before the storm hit when asked, the governor stated she had not been in contact with the white house

Overall - I am trying to avoid most of the blame stuff because there is so much BS being put out (some even by reknowned journalists that arent checking their stories) and the spin machine is in full force int he white house obviously - since Bush is the one dropping in the polls by a long shot.
As far as local politics - the mayor issued a mandatory evacuation on Sunday morning - whether any large city could really evacuate all of its people in 24 hours is debatable - I tend to think its impossible - and anyone that thinks that it really could have been done any better with that timeframe should be in that position instead - but even if you had 1000 busses waiting, airplanes ready, troop transports standing by in the roads of New Orleans, the same people that didnt leave before still wouldnt have left - they DIDNT WANT TO! and still dont!


As far as your statement about FEMA and their response - that is a normal response from FEMA under the homeland security umbrella - that is why every former director of FEMA has said that the setup now is stupid - secondly - a lot of people are hammering the director for ineptness - which may be true - but its not his job to do immediate response - that responsibility is with the 6th district of FEMA located in Texas - and they did respond per their plan - as did numerous other governmental agencies (ie FBI, ATF etc who were in the city as soon as the storm was over) - but they were doing what they are supposed to do per their plans - which is to protect government interests in the city ONLY! That is the fault associated with the new Homeland security department - it places all of the initial "disaster recovery" on local fire depts, police and sheriff depts - the amount of money they were given to prepare for response was incredible - of course most departments just bought new command busses, coffee dispensers etc. FEMA also provided locals with money to train for these type of disasters, as FEMA was transferring the "job"

I hope you understand that I dont like what I see - but being my age and having been through riots, bombings and other amazing things I saw as a teen (like seeing Washington DC on fire) - and watching the transfer of power under the homeland security department and knowing what would happen with an additional layer of red tape - I fully expected this to happen - just didnt think it would happen so close to home :)

BTW Bill - having been to so many Mardi Gras events - in the back of my mind I still have spinning this feeling of something just not being kosher - this police dept and the local sheriffs, hwy patrol etc, every year, can control 1.5 million drunks partying, killing each other raping, looting, you name it - and do one fantastic job of it with never a complaint or issue - and yet a little storm that blows some water into the city comes along and they go ballistic? Something smells

OK - one more little post LOL
Here is what Region 6 of FEMA did on AUG 30 - which is exactly by the book and exactly the way FEMA is set up now:
http://www.fema.gov/news/regionnews.fema?region=6

Hey Bill, that local TV station's website is at:

http://wafb.com/

You know, I'm not much into politics as I stated earlier. My guess is that the governor is incompetant and that she didn't want to give up power to the federal government because she thought that she'd never win another election if she did. Unfortunately for her, she probably won't anyway.

Having 1 central authority that controls all of the forces that you mentioned earlier is probably a good idea. Too many chiefs usually means that there is alot of arguing and not enough results. That said the federal government is such a behemoth that it would be amazing if they truly accomplished anything any faster than what is currently being accomplished.

I still say that our contra-flow worked exceptionally well and that the majority of people that wanted to get out, got out.

We'll know more about the shootings and looting over the next week or so. I will keep ya'll informed when I hear things that are confirmed...such as when my friends in the reserves or police departments tell me things that they've seen first hand.

Good night all.

Wait, are you saying that you are skeptical of reports of police misbehavior because they never had many problems you could see during Mardi Gras?

The big difference between the two being that one is a bunch of better-off partiers, one is a bunch of poor, starving, sick people who were left to die. I'm not saying that shooting at rescuers helps anyone, but I do completely understand where people are coming from with the anger and frustration.

Plus, are there any real, confirmed reports of this mass raping and cop-shooting I keep hearing rumors of?


And, on another note, I'm still looking to find someone down there accepting volunteers. And new leads from anyone? I'm thinking of just flying down there with a backback full of Clif Bars and bug spray and seeing what I can do.

I dont think I was trying to say I was skeptical about the police mis-behaviour, more I think I am concerned with the second part - that so far there hasnt been one confirmed report of the shootings and rapes - other than a few heresay reports that the media keeps blowing up - and unfortunately seems to dominate the news instead of reporters doing their job and getting facts (something that they seem to have forgotton over the years)

I tend to believe that there is still a group of old gang members that have run several neighborhoods for some time, that are still there trying to salvage their turf - and may be taking potshots at cops. It just amazes me though that the media has twisted so many stories - the one I keep thinking about is the "police turn into looters and ransack Walmart" story. Here is a whole precinct of cops that have lost their headquarters, have no communication with the chief of police, see looters robbing walmart, shoo them away, and set up their HQ in Walmart - the news media reports it as police looting - but when you talk to the captain of that precinct he is pretty adamant that he was just trying to find a dry place to he could group his cops into one place and set up a central dry location. Just one example of the news media taking a story from an evacuee and turning it into fact - fortunately one news group actually went out to the Walmart and interviewed the captain of police and he basically told the reporter to F*** off when asked about his cops being looters.

No one down there was "left to die" - the days before the storm came in the police were driving through every neighborhood with loudspeakers telling people to get out and where they could get busses - and to use the superdome as a last resort shelter. Having lived (temporarily) in one of the poorest neighborhoods down there I can tell you that everyone has a TV and would have seen the mayor and governor two days before the storm telling them to get out, and the only anger they have is when the cops try to help them - Im not totally heartless - I just know that 99% of the people that wouldnt leave are the ones that are still there refusing to leave and hiding out in the projects.

As far as wanting to help out I know the Red Cross is still taking volunteers - they train you for an hour and then put you out there helping people - although I dont think flying in would be a viable option yet :)

some police were looting

HERE IS THE VIDEO

That's hilarious...and disturbing.

God Outdoes Terrorists Yet Again
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/40305/

With all due respect Linkster, one thing i do have to take exception to is this:

I think at least 30 people would take exception to that:

At least 30 found in Nursing Home

..quite frankly who is to blame or what kind of shoes Condi was buying, or what bunker was Cheney hiding in, or what was done is trivial at this time.. those who think GWB did a GREAT job will continue to think so and try to 'blame' everyone else.. and those of us who think he's destroying 200+ years of democracy will just use this to bolster our position.

Let's just hope for the next 6-9 months we have no other disasters anywhere else in the country that require immediate action because it might take over 2-3 weeks just to find the National Guard.

That is disturbing on so many levels :(

Who said Bush cut his vacation 2 days short due to the Katrina?

Bush is embarrassing. :(

A great country being led by such a self centered idiot.

something consistant about that elite club that includes Nero fiddling, Cake eating Marie Antoinette and George reading er fishing.. |cry|