Looks like they got the hint - theyre in todays email

Guess what I got in the mail today?

ANOTHER FUCKING POSTCARD.

AVN, please: if I am not signed up by now, coming from CANADA, it is very unlikely I will show up because there are no more fucking hotel rooms in Vegas for less than the national debt of a third world nation.

I do not want openly adult materials shipped to me without plain wrapping. Can you please adjust your marketing programs for the next show to have a little sensitivity to those people you are trying to sell to?

Alex

AVN's lastest direct mail campaign - ya get that one yet?
 

So have you received your mailing from AVN's lastest direct mail campaign ?

Its for the latest of AVN's magazines. The front of the envelope - yes outside on the front of the envelope right next to your address - perfect for photocopying all together - AVN features the cover of their new magazine.

did you get that mailer yet? Whats your reaction?
H

Uh...good thing they don't have my address. |badidea|

I get all kinds of porn shit sent to me by mail. "Exclusive Video Offers Inside. Must be 18 to open." I mean Hell it happens, I'm sure the postman just doesn't even care about what kind of mail you are getting.

Now when he accidentaly drops your mail into your neighbors box...then it's time to get steamed. :D

Having my neighbor's show up with my "interclimax" check is always a good one...

Strange, they wire money to me now instead :)

Alex

Yeah, the gayvn ad? That is FUCKED up! We live in a quiet neighborhood & we don't need our neighbors seeing this shit!

We need to tar & feather AVN for their stupidity! What tools..... |angry|

THAT be the one. And I agree with you.

I emailed the exec of sales with a nice little email|angry|. Goto avnonline's contact us page and you'll see the email addy's listed there.

I thought the top dog of avn sales was my target - since this direct mailing IS the product of a sales campaign. right?

anyway I live in a more redneck part of LA county and I dont need the local tobacco chewers attention.

AVN/Internext 2008
 

I have attended Amateur Camz Parties the past few years and some of the parties were great and others were so so (2007 party was over at strip club Olympic Garden). When I talk to Dan he just blows me off, he is really busy. Dan and are are cool. I have a bigger vision of where I want to take amateur porn/live TV broadcast. As for AVN, making it great for Internet webmasters/amateurs it will take a month of Sundays for it to happen. AVN is big business and big money. The porn industry starlets will never go away. Joe blow from Nebraska has fantasied about it for 5 years and he is there. I will say that the energy of AVN sucks. Ask some of my amateur housewife girlfriend what they think. I said it! Organizing a "Amateur AVN Show" like AVN would be great like LA Adult Con. Some of my amateur friends are getting attention from the UK/Ireland for their work on TV. Europe is very open minded. And, amateur porn is taking over whether the porn industry likes it or not. Amateur porn is real and fresh. It has personality and pazazz! I know what ABC Niteline thinks of amateur porn, it is da BOMB! Ya baby. |boobies|
HUM? How about a amateur/webmaster section at AVN? But AVN will charge us a lot for it. How about a lot of amateurs going under one name and contributing to the booth. Call it "Porn with Pazazz" come meet the girl/babe/housewife next door. I'm brain storming right now. Any ideas? So then all the web masters and the models can get in under one company name for a small amount. Date changes for AVN, another issue. Ya, having it in September or October would be better. Why January??? It is slow for Las Vegas??? After Xmas? The CES show?
|cry|

Ummm, did I just go back in time 19 months?

AVN could not care less about the independent webmasters and independent amateur sites, unless you're one of the few buying their ad space.

Are we talking about AVN, or AVNOnline here?
One large company, but very distinct divisions.

Seeing as it was 19 months ago, I'd have to go back & re-read it to know for sure.

But based on everything, I'd think it was safe to assume that I think both suck when it comes to the everyday webmaster.

****

Thanks to zoezane for bringing up a really old thread for no fucking reason |thumb

She has a bigger vision of what Am porn should be . . .

I'm sure you have a reason for saying that, but I have to disagree. Paul started as a video store owner, a little guy, and successive editors of AVNOnline have been good, decent people, including the current editor, Kathee Brewer. (Who has been with the mag for Many, MANY years.)
I know first hand she cares very much about webmasters, and treats everyone with respect. She has also been known to bite the hand that feeds them,because it was the right thing to do. Again, I know this first hand, from an experience I knew all the details on.

You may some get traction with "they favor advertisers when it comes to reviewing products." But hey, they ARE a trade journal. I've noticed web boards allow advertisers to put up "stickies," and have special privileges when it comes to announcements and things. Please, tell me how this is different?

If you really want to hear my views on AVN, go listed to these radio shows (in this order)

January 24 2006 - 40 minutes of crap & 40 minutes with Farley from AVN
January 17 2006 - Contests, Announcements, More Vegas Stuff, 1996-98 Sponsors
January 10 2006 - Vegas 2006 Recap Part 1
December 13 2005 - AVN Show Recap, Non-English Speaking Webmasters
December 6 2005 - Far-L From HomeGrown & Farley From AVN Discuss Internext

Yes, 5 hours of crap to go thru - that's how much on air time we dedicated to this subject 18 months ago when this thread was going on. There's more threads about AVN & Internext as well - most from 2006 & prior (but I think there is one about the 2007 Vegas show where DrB was giving them another chance)

Well, I'm very sure it's all good listening, and I mean no disrespect, as I'm sure your opinion is important to you, but it's just not that important to me. That is, not important enough to invest 5 hours. I have grabbed the show With Farrel though. I'll at least give that a few minutes to see what he has to say. I've known him for many years, and
highly value his opinion on any subject.

And I think I'll stick with the opinion of AVN I've formed on my own for now. But I certainly respect your having an opinion of your own.
Aren't capitalism and free speech great things?
|thumb

So you want to hear my opinion...as long as it doesn't take too long?

If you're gonna listen to one, I'd suggest this one:
January 24 2006 - 40 minutes of crap & 40 minutes with Farley from AVN
Start about 40 minutes into it - the short version is that Farley convinced me to give Internext one more chance & this is me discussing what I liked & disliked after the show (of course, he was 40 minutes late for the interview, so the 1st part is mostly me bitching that he didn't have the balls to come on the show)

I love Far-L as well, but he's a tad bit on AVN's side due to him owning a video company & not being an everyday webmaster, which is what the entire debate is all about.

Yea, that's about it. I would like a "summary," not a whole report. Ultimately, it all comes down to everyone's individual perspective anyhow. I've been an exhibitor at Internext, and more often a reporter for AVNOnline. I'll be a featured speaker this week at Internext in Florida. I think, that maybe allot of opinion is about what they THINK it should be, for them, as opposed to what it actually is. And I'm by no means a devote' Of Internext. For us, exhibiting there isn't the best investment of my marketing dollars. Nothing wrong with it, just not the choice I will make after the first year. I also had a major complaint, which is long gone water under the bridge. As a result, I don't exhibit anymore. That's how I voted with my dollars.
But When I find myself having a negative opinion, I say "Ok, but what if it wasn't there at all?" Then we'd complain 'cause there wasn't anything.
'Cause I'm not gonna run a show. I think any "show" has value, in that, it's an opportunity to meet with others you would not normally meet with, and a way to see "new and exciting thing."

Adult webmasters are an odd lot to start with. Most work out of their homes, I'll bet many of them roll out of bed, and into "the office," just a few feet away. They start out as an anti-social lot. How do you make a "happy" show for them?

I mean, let's face it, we all want to go to a show, see what everyone else is doing, find that million dollar idea that will only work if WE do it, meet cool people, go to a good party, and accidentally walk into a hotel room/ pool cabana/ beach hideaway/ (fill in your own fantasy here) with two hot porn chics making out, that suddenly decide we're the answer to their sexual needs at the moment.

Now, do I paint an accurate picture, or what?

How much you getting paid for that? :D

The long & short of it is that Miami is way too expensive & Vegas is a distant 2nd to AEE as far as importance in their eyes (I do love giving a seminar in the basement of the hotel as the kitchen staff pushes a cart behind the panel area)

AVN takes care of the video companies - and from what I'm told, they take care of them very well. The everyday webmaster that's building sites & galleries & maintaining link lists & tgp's & blogs is like the redheaded step-child.

That's why I love that XBiz's forums came along 6 months after I lost all faith in AVN |thumb

Like I said before - this is all old news to most people. Do some reading & listen to some audio & you'll be caught up to where we left this 18 months ago :)

Posted Today, 12:57 AM
I think you really need to re-read this thread, since you posted in it NINE FUCKING TIMES 18 months ago.

So you want to tell me why the fuck you're asking questions that you already know the answer to?

I find it a bit rude to ask someone their salary? Perhaps you'd like to share your 1040 with all of us?

I didn't re-start this thread, I just added to it after someone else did. I caught my eye, so away I went.
I was responding to Zoe, and then you chimed in with the "my opinion 19 months ago."

I wasn't aware there was an expiration date to threads.
If it bothered you so much, why did you post into it again, and again????
And what's wrong with reviewing an old position? You make a determination 19 months ago, and then locked in for life on that? That explains allot.

Yea, that was 18 months ago.
So let me see if I've got this right......
Post here infrequently, get a rash of shit when you do post something....
Post here, and get a rash of shit for responding to another poster's comments. (Who apparently broke the "Thanks to zoezane for bringing up a really old thread for no fucking reason" Rule) Oh, and she apparently did have a reason, as she posed several questions in her "no fucking reason" section of her post.
After learning she broke the expiration rule, I'm not surprised she didn't post again.

I asked because I've spoken at AVN events - I know there is no pay (other than a free badge)

So we're to believe that your "AVN or AVN Online" question was solely based on zoezane's post?

If your question was based solely on zoezane post, then why didn't you clarify this 5 posts ago? All you had to say was "I was asking zoezane which they were referring to..." & I'd have shut the fuck up.

So why are we reviewing my 19 month old position?

This thread lost steam 18 months ago. I have no idea why someone would post to a thread that's 18 months old. You'd have to ask zoezane that question. All I can do is comment on how silly bringing up an old thread is since this message board has had 15,000 topics since then.

I'm sorry if I don't follow your philosophy of dusting off old things, like your Dec 2006 post in regards to a TV show that aired in Oct 2002 where your website was displayed on a monitor in the background of a cluttered room for a grand total of 2 seconds. Of course, had I not read your post, I'd have had no idea who's website flashed on my screen anyway |thumb

And this has nothing to do with how often you visit the board or post. I'm just boggled as to why you seem to have so many questions about a topic that you heavily contributed to. It's like you wanted to start another (or reopen the existing) debate on the subject for some reason. But obviously, I'm a moron because you're not speaking to me or anyone else.

I guess zoezane needs to reply to your question.

Yea, whatever.
I can see you'll just keep at this until "you're right."
I think I remember why I wandered away 18 months ago.
I understand the board is your life. It isn't mine, and I don't fact check every statement I make and cross chart it against every other statement I made over the past 24 years. (My time in the adult industry.) It catches my eye, I respond. I don't re-review the thread. I use the "Go to most recent unread post" option, respond, and move on.

And as for our multiple TV exposures, I find every one of them valuable, for any length of time. The episode in question has actually been re-cut from the original, which included a bit more of our material.

Oh, the changing times of what's allowed on TV, and the addition of more commercials to shows. In this particular case, we lost some air time. I must have missed your spot on the show? Did your segment get completely cut?
There were allot more people in the industry on that show, and it was of great general interest to all. And you know what's really ironic about that? Much of that footage was shot at Internext!
How about that? yet another GOOD reason for the shows. The mainstream media recognizes that is where to go to get stories and B-Roll. But I'm sure you have a reason why that's no good too, right?

I'm just so damn tired of this intra industry bashing. People go to the trouble to pull together a show, for whatever reason, and there is always somebody ready to stand in the corner and spit on it.
Or, just run down what is a positive experience.

Hey, that's OK. you believe what you want.

Somebody must be seeing it. Every time any one of our appearances airs, we see a very distinctive spike in traffic and orders.
I can always tell when we are on one of the international appearances they re-run from the BBC.

But you stick with what you KNOW to be right. That'll work best for you I think.

And as for "Ask Zoe;" why that's exactly what I did do. Then you popped in and pissed on her leg about her "audacity" of starting up an old thread that had "Lost steam." -Cooking now, isn't it?

I'm truly sorry that you haven't been paid for your appearances.

Well, you certainly put me & my pitiful 11 years of adult webmastering to shame. Of course, I was only 12 when you got into the adult industry, so I'll have to go yell at my parents for not fucking sooner so that I could have as many years experience as someone who is as wise an elder as you.

LEARN FROM THIS MAN, MY FELLOW ADULT INDUSTRY NEWBIES!

Have fun in Miami & keep telling yourself that a free badge is plenty of compensation for your appearance |thumb

Oh, suggestion for the system administrator to avoid these awful thread revivals?
Turn off the "alert user when someone posts in the thread you posted in" for whatever time period you have determined is an "out of steam thread." Or at least add the line : "Post at your peril, cause this thread is xxx months old, and has been determined to not matter anymore. You will be ridiculed and berated for responding."

'Cause, as I look back, that's how I got involved. Got the email from your system telling me someone responded to a thread I was posting in. Not sure how Zoe revived it. But that's how I was alerted.

Oh, wait....can't you lock old threads? Yes, I'm sure that's a function of the message board software. Then you could avoid all this nonsense as well. Just lock 'em all up after a certain time. Then you have that "control fix," as well.

I figured it was safe to respond to a thread I had posted in (my bad for thinking that.)
I already knew it was wrong to start a new thread that didn't fit the ever changing requirements. (See above confirmation)

But I will give you a bit of marketing philosophy we use, since you've been so kind.....
ANY appearance, ANY...where the outcome is to expose our product to one new potential user, marketer, or media source is worth it's time in gold. Compensation aside, I think I would consider PAYING for an appearance that meets my criteria.
That might have something to do with longevity in ANY business.
Rolling with the changes from Super 8, to Video, to BBS, to internet does give one a perspective on the industry that only a lengthy exposure like that can do. If you're lucky, maybe you'll be able to see that thing that comes after whatever is happening when I drop dead, being the next generation and all.

Y'know Eric, more often than not over the years I've been on your side when such debates occur. However, in this case I have to say that all that experience you listed above is of absolutely zero relevance to the topic of this thread, which was (when it began 19 months ago) AVN/Internet and the independent webmaster, i.e. those that don't own affiliate programs with multiple paysites, but those of us that make a living promoting affiliate programs. I don't think you've ever worn that hat.

Listen to the two radio shows with Farley. He does finally admit that perhaps Internext isn't the show for independent webmasters.

Toby-
I certainly respect your opinion. At this point, it's so far off the original topic I don't think it really means anything.
I just don't think that a general statement that they could care less covers it, as I know the editor personally, (AVNOnline) and I KNOW that's not her attitude. It is never my attitude when writing for the magazine, and never would be. Can't speak to "AVN." Always been my opinion that they think the internet is a "fad."
AVNOnline was always a separate "property." I started by asking for clarification on who "sucked." I don't have an argument on AVN, as it's pretty clear this isn't their venue.

But I don't really have anything else helpful on the subject.

The rest of that post is unimportant - but this is a gem.

Do you not realize that AVN knows this as well, so while their getting 4-6 experts in a field to speak for free, they are charging the people that are there to learn from them $100-150 per person.

And then there's the spam part - you're not the only one to sit on a panel & use self-promotion. But what does that say to the person that forked over money to hear the speakers basically spam themselves.

That's one of the reasons that I've fucking hatred EVERY "traffic" panel I've been on with the exception of last month's XBiz seminar - there's always a Search Engine or traffic buying/selling person on the panel giving away tiny bits of the puzzle, then plugging how you can find them after & the URL of the website where they will help you buy or sell traffic so that they can get their cut.

XBiz finally figured this part out & had 4 of us up there that had nothing to sell anyone listening. We were Link List owners & a blog guy explaining to the everyday webmaster how to get traffic for free.

I'm not saying that I didn't plug my site as well as the board. I'm saying I had nothing to sell anyone that was listening. I was there to give out advice - like I do every day here on the board & have done for the last 8 years.

So go grab your media exposure & speak to people that paid AVN to hear about what your product does |thumb

***

And to answer your initial question - AVN & AVN Online are the same when it comes to the independent webmaster, because they have no idea who any of us are - we barely exist in their eyes.

Actually, if i recall correctly, you did a piss poor job of promoting the board. and what not |club|

Yup - I only mentioned the board twice & I missed a great chance to whore myself out by saying that I post my stats once a month.

I'm the kind of asshole that's there to actually help people & not |spam| myself :D

You say asshole, I call you a great guy |smooch|

OF COURSE THEY ARE. They are a BUSINESS. They are providing access. It's the payoff. Is this NOT obvious, that it has to be explained?
I used to shake my head when starry eyed dreamers would talk about "helping everyone for free," and "love thy neighbor" crap. Now I just say, you go get 'em. You go get'em greenie. You're a swell guy.
You get your e-ticket punched for the slice and dice world of traffic management heaven. They will name a chair after you.
I prefer to earn along with the people we are helping.
I used to shake my head when starry eyed dreamers would talk about "helping everyone"

I provide the future by selling it to people. To pay for the research. I show a non-competitive way I can re-purpose people's content. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE THERE. to find new ways to make money.

I'm just not gonna argue about this any more. You refine, refine, and refine your dialing in on the very perfect traffic patterns, and your filtering system for picking that one out of 500, or 5,000, or whatever the current Nirvana number is for traffic sales, and you sell away.
I wish you all the luck in the world. I hope you are the very best traffic management/sales site their is. And after all your work, I'll bet you'll understand everything there is to know about that.
And then what?
You sell that access to people to look at whatever website will pay to strain out the 1-5000 customer, right? Churn them out at, what is it now? 37 days membership before they defect?
(I have no idea if any of those numbers are accurate)
Churn and burn. That's a hard way to make a living, but OK, if that's what you want to do. Too high of a work/return percentage for me.

I think I'll pass.

But back to the point. Apparently, from your perspective, AVN doesn't care. So be it. I think otherwise.
We will simply have to agree to disagree.

1 - I have no pre-paid ads - I promote sites that surfers have joined via my links in the past. Sorry if you assumed I was being bought out by the sites I promote

2 - I thought we did 18 months ago :D

A little late for this one question, but has to be asked, as it will be on the minds of everyone looking at their credit card bills from this last show in Hollywood..

Why are there two menus for the diplomat, one with normal prices all year long... and one for our week where a burger and sandwich is $55
...true story. I can almost understand the expensive drinks, but c'mon, those prices are insane.....


Never mind, we know the answer.... it's just coincidence ....

To be honest, the high priced drinks and food, was one of the big reasons I chose to attend Cybernet Expo this summer INSTEAD of Internext.

Is sodomy legal in Florida? Because that's what I call a good ol' fashioned ass fucking.

Why do people feel they must stay at the Hotel?
Being the po' bid'ness man I am, I stayed at the sleep inn up the road a piece. Ate where I wanted to, had a mustang convertible to tool around in, got free breakfast, paper, HBO, Microwave and refrigerator in my room, all for less that the cost of one night's luxury suite at the diplomat.
You guys just gotta learn to be cost conscience.

In fact, the entire trip, with airfare, cost me less than what it would have cost to stay in one of the luxury suites there at the fancy hotel.

Why does AVN force the hotel down our throats? I've asked them why they don't rent a hall for the convention, let people stay wherever they want, let people have parties at various locvations.....oh yeah, that'd mean less money for your friends at AVN.

Oh, I get it now.....
Somehow, you feel slighted by AVN, and since I'm somehow peripherally connected to them, I'm the bad guy, right?
Now I think I see. K, let's get this straight.....I'm NOT AVN, or any part of it. Yes, I have written for them, and been employed by them.
I've also been treated very fairly, and with great respect by them. And I might add, NOT because I've purchased any advertising or anything like that.
They didn't "Force the hotel down anyone's throat." It's ridiculously expensive if you ask me, and yet there seems to be people that want to pay for it. I DO like the fact that they close the facility to outsiders. That way, you know you are only dealing with industry people. And in the adult industry, things can be a bit more "uninhibited," shall we say.
But your above statement of "rent a hall, and let people stay where they want, is EXACTLY what happened. I stayed at the sleep inn. Very nice place. Caters to the cruise crowd, free 'net, all the goodies for $70/night. So you implying people couldn't do exactly what you suggest is disingenuous.

And when did it suddenly become "bad" to make money? Personally, I disagree with the $300 entry fee, as I've stated repeatedly. My thinking is, make the entry fee near -zero- (But not completely zero of course,) get a bigger crowd, leads to more visitors, leads to more booths, which then leads to more interest, and the cycle repeats. But I would think making money on the event would be the reason to have it. I think EVERYONE that has one of these events is in it to make money. Haven't seen a whole lot of non-profits in the adult industry.

I hope AVN makes as much money as they can. I hope you make a great big bag of money you have to rent a wheelbarrow to take it down to the bank. More money in the adult industry means more power to combat the right wing nuts that are trying to shut us down.

Oh, and yes, I'm doing this to make money too. Of course I'd like to change the world, but I'm most definitely going to make money along the way.

You're giving yourself WAAAAAAAAAAY too much credit.