I'm sure 99% of all sponsors who chose to make hosted galleries are more than happy to see them posted on skimming thumb tgps. But that doesn't really help me if it doesn't say so in their terms and they suddenly change their mind. Or if I come across a sponsor like Torn who doesn't want his content on a skimming thumb tgp and he closes my site. Legally Torn is right about this one, I'm afraid. And that's why I think it would be a good idea if all sponsors who like to see their hosted galleries on skimming thumb tgps says so in their terms.

BTW do you think a sponsor would be happy if you skimmed 80% of your traffic to trades ... or 99% ... what's the limit?

Is there a pecking order?

|buddy|
I had a TGP on a free host in 1998.

So why are people still using free hosts for TGPs in 2004 and expecting to stay online?

I seriously cant beleive most of the replies in this thread LOL

Just to make it clear to everyone, running a CJ site and skimming TGP traffic isnt illegal and i would say that a good 95% of TGPs currently in operation today do it in some way shape or form.

This thread has really opened my eyes to some of the long standing webmasters in this business to. Especially as it would seem a lot of the havent got a clue about trading traffic or the law.

Regards,

Lee

I also had 2 servers and a few virtual accounts.

It was a freehost belonging to a friend of mine. But he sold it a few months back. I've put up a blank html page there with just empty head and body tags and it does indeed seem to produce a popup which is not meant to be there. But that's what some freehosts do, I guess they have to make money somehow. I hadn't noticed it before. I didn't put it there.

Remember this, Torn posted on AWI inviting AWI webmasters to join his program. So I joined, and just added gallerys to thumbscript. http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/sh...threadid=71774

However, I'd just like to reiterate this one point YES I HAD AN ENTER CONSOLE, NO - I DID NOT PUT VIRUS TROJAN EXPLOIT OR SPYWARE CODE ON MY PAGE.

And no, re-reading this thread, I don't believe that Torn has called me a cheater, but this thread is posted in the "possible cheaters" forum.

I shan't post here again. If you want to continue this discussion please do so at AWI.

What if he went to get gas as well? You didn't give him permission to, but because he did you can now drive a bit farther.

Kloot skims traffic from Torn's galleries to a trade. This (hopefully) increases traffic to Kloot's site. More traffic to Kloot's site = more traffic to Torn's galleries = more money for Kloot AND Torn

Is this illegal? As Torn didn't give permission for Kloot to do this, yes.

Is Torn a clueless idiot? Yes.

Holy Fuck! :D

No one said that skimming is illegal, but back in the day when it all started, there were no "thumb TGP's" & it was just a skim off a text link. Personally, I'm not one to fuck over my surfers with blind links in the hopes that others will fuck over their surfers with other blind links & maybe one of them will buy something when they get fucked & sent to my site. I prefer good old fashioned hard work & marketing skills to get sales.

Now you have webmasters posting a copyrighted image but not sending all the traffic to that site & IMHO that is illegal.

In this case, you also had all kinds of alarms going off because of the malicious pop-up's that came when you clicked as well.

Put yourself in Torn's shoes - you shot this content - it's for your personal website - you see one of the images on someone else's site & click on it, thinking that you'll be going to a gallery on your server. You then get sent to a top list or some other site & have your spyware alarm's going off left & right. You'd be pissed too!

If other sponsor's & content providers want to allow this, that's great - good for them! But we are not talking about anyone other than Torn & Kat! Their website, their content - THEIR RULES!

LOL.... I have still yet to see an "entrance counsel" that set off my Norton 3 times..... But I guess when it’s been removed you can say it was anything you want. Care to explain why the site was taken down over an “entrance counsel”?

Looking forward to seeing everyone in Hollywood, I'll be there From tonight to Monday and more then willing to talk face to face about this or anything else.

Have a good trip everyone!

|bananna|

Torn - I'm sure you & me will be the target of many conversations this weekend :D

Holy... a more clueless group of people about tgp I have never seen in all my days... I will make sure to add Katcash to the list of sponsors I won't be promoting, and I'm glad to know my "shit" tgp traffic is so shitty. I'll keep it all to myself thanks :)

Oh and Torn, you might have been better off going to the affiliate and discussing it with him before actually goign to a board and bashing him.. did you even bother to contact him before you ran here? Damn, that's a fine way to treat an affiliate.

TGP's don't "skim" traffic to be crafty..they do it to fuel trades and encourage growth. Why a sponsor would want to limit the growth of a potentially endless stream of traffic is beyond me. That "skim" can mean the difference between 1000 people going to see that sponsor's gallery and 100,000 people. If the way TGPS are grown and administrated are a problem, by all means it's Torn and Kat's perrogative to discontinue allowing people to use the content in this way.. But it's funny when you realize a lot of the really big programs come to people like us and trust us with their content to brand their girls and their sites. There IS a reason for this, you know.

Just my humble opinion, if you run a pay site and Don't want to have your content used on a thumb tgp that skims it is a business decision I can admire in the fact that you are willing to give up a good 35% to 45% of your income potential on principle. All I can say is Bravo and welcome to the cheese line :)

I can't believe this conversation is even taking place at all. And to think that Torn was on AWI soliciting tgp webmasters to promote his "humble" little site.

Jerked around a bit or not.....TGP's are here to stay and command a sizeable chunk of the total traffic picture........So go ahead and opt out of that corner of the market.......go ahead.......crazier things have been done........like patting yourself on the back because a bunch of linklist guys happen to agree with your position.

Skimming is not your enemy.......the damn "xxx toolbar" is! I hate those damn things and hate it even more when somebody tries to autoinstall one on my machine. I see fewer and fewer sites trying this now.

Amen.

GG I did put myself in thorn's shoes and I did look at his program.. unless I am blind and couldn't see it, there is no TOS on his site. I will state it again every single sponsor program I have ever signed up for, I have used a skimming TGP as my example site, and never once has this ever been a issue with any of them.

Making Torns case the first I've ever seen of a sponsor complaining about skimmed traffic. So being that his rules seem to be out of the norm of 95% of all the other programs providing free hosted galleries, don't you think he should have at least put his rules on his page? How can someone follow rules if they don't know what they are?

Loot said yes he skims, loot said he did have a console (pop up) but he said the auto install is from the free host.. Is that really that hard for you to believe? Dose Porngraph ring any bells in your head? Did that free counter not get sold and the new owner started auto installing toolbars on everyone using his service just like Koot said happened with the free host he was using whom he said was orginally owned by a friend?

While Torn might not have come out and said koot was cheater, he did pretty much did imply the fact, and went as far as sending his host a C&D letter.. Some of you jumped right on the bandwagon and started calling and implying he was a cheater with out even doing any reasearch. Which in fact if you follow the rules on Katcash.com, Koot is not a cheater because there are in fact no rules on the site.

God DAMN, brother! The preachin' is GOOD today! You keep preachin' that Gospel and I'll keep puttin' some cash into the offerin' plate!

Keep on showin' 'em the light, my brotha!



|bananna|

I agree with you almost 100%. If I was the sponsor in question, I would be happy to let anyone do anything they wanted with content I "gave away". To me...it's just good business. I have had the same feelings since the very beginning and don't think they will ever change.

But, if you look at Torn's first post, you will see that one of the problems is the content was being used" to help install whatever crap he is trying to install." I believe that would be "the damn "xxx toolbar"" that you mention or something just as bad. Would I go out policing my content to make sure it wasn't being used for that...No. But, if I stumbled on someone using my content to install something, I think I would be pissed off. I would have written to the advertiser and asked him to stop. I would not have gotten any host involved until I was sure that didn't work. And I would not have terminated the advertiser's account. But, that's just me. I also believe that if you are going to "give away" content and you have rules about using it, you should make sure they are posted clearly.

Until GreenguyandJim, I did nothing but run and market affiliate programs. I believe that is why my thoughts on this subject differ so much from the other regulars on GreenguyandJim. I have always been about the business of making money for the affiliate program. I don't think you will see sponsors coming out of the woodwork saying they would allow this type of thing. Just as you will not see sponsors saying they allow email spamming. But, most of them do. That's just the way it is.

Torn, you and I should really sit down and talk in Florida :)

Can a sponsor tell you that you cant have consoles on your site
or use toolbars or even spyware. Can they cancel you because they dont like your advertising methods

whats next..... Torn tells you what colors your site should be

I think thats a violation of free speech
in fact in canceling your account because you use consoles or spyware he has violated your civil rights. In fact I would bet its actionable.

but of course thats only if you and Torn are in the usa

he made those galleries for tgp owners to use.
90% of tgps skim traffic, if torn made those gallerys and didnt know how tgp's really work then thats really torns problem

Please.

It is not a violation of anyone's civil rights for a business to place limitations on how their product is promoted. In the "brick and mortar" world, you will get told what specific color and brand of ink to use for printed promotional materials by an awful lot of companies.

I don't think most people posting in this thread are nearly as clueless as they are coming off ... this is just the very tired, very overdone, very pointless "to skim or not to skim" conversation wrapped up in a new package.

Incidentally ... was there a clause in the TOS prohibitting promotion of the sponsor on sites also doing autodownloads?

Lets not forget that his tgp got shut down because of this
and at this point is still down

I think this is very unfair to Torn.

Just because he is the first sponsor to actually stand up and say...
"Hey!! don't use my content like this!"

If the TGP had been on a paid host, then I am sure kloot would have had the chance to comply with Torn's request.

Let's just put this behind us and learn something from it.

Torn DIDN'T shut the guy down. He asked the guy to remove the content by emailing him and emailing his host. That's it. His host shut him down so he needs to deal with the host by not giving him the 24 hours Torn gave him to remove the galleries.

Cut Torn a break, he's not an ass. ;)

Thumb TGPS that skim are here to stay and a huge part of sponsors making money. Be real! Call it CJ or whatever you want but they send valid customers to the hosted galleries that do buy memberships.

ohh I didnt know that. That changes things a bit

I am sorry I should have read the thread better

Buy an email list & then spam a sponsor's site & see how fast you get terminated :D

Only if the sponsor get's a lot of complaints. Otherwise, with most sponsors...the advertiser is golden.

Please........... we all know nobody get terminated for spaming