Good thing us folks not going to FL had something to do while everybody else is gone! LOL

The problem with this thread is there are too many issues, so we're all debating different things. And Torn is gonna have a long read when he gets back. ;)

Item A - The Skim vs. Promotional Content

Item B - The exploit/toolbar crap. Was it on his site or one of his trades?
(Kloot's fault either way, IMO. Who you trade with is still YOUR responsibility to police.)

Item C - Were Torn's actions a little rash?



In future posts, please clarify which Item you're discussing. |jester|

Tommy, I agree with what I think is your main point, which is that Torn shouldn't have been offering hosted galleries if he didn't understand TGP and how they would be used.

In my personal opinion, Torn made several BIG DUMB mistakes. He's going to pay for those mistakes, and he and other sponsors are going to have to clarify their terms because of this.

I don't know Torn, and I don't promote his program. I don't approve of what he did, how he handled the problem.

But I UNDERSTAND what he did. He thought he found a new affiliate using his content for criminal purposes.

He over-reacted. You and I can see that. But he thought he was just defending himself.

It was an unintended consequence that Kloot got deleted so quickly. If he hadn't been hosted on a criminal freehost he would almost certainly still be in business today.

I haven't read Torn's Terms and Conditions, I have no idea what they allow. I agree Torn over-reacted, and went to the cheater board and the DMCA attack too quickly.

But put yourself in his shoes for a second. You check on a new affiliate and the guy's page gives you THREE virus alarms. I think you'd be dammed pissed too. I know I would be.

Then it's Torn's bad luck that on top of the toolbars, he doesn't happen to know about the skim, so he thinks he's being ripped off by a double cheater.

And that starts this whole comedy of errors in motion.

Tommy, I know your system is possibly the best there is, so that's a solid gold endorsement. If I implied that Kloot was responsible for the toolbars, I apologize, based on your endorsement.

It doesn't explain quite why Kloot didn't know his page was autodownloading. Of course I got lots of pages I haven't checked in months myself. Maybe Kloot had a cookie that kept the page from downloading to him.

And, I want to acknowledge again that we only have Torn's word that the page was trying to infect him. Torn might have been mistaken.

I expect Torn will speak up soon to clarify his terms and his actions.

I am not endorsing Kloot and please dont applogize for anything.
I hope I was not to pushy

when you think about this, do you know how far this can reach


anyway I am gonna keep my comments to myself from now on

It is kind of a fun argument, except maybe for poor Kloot and Torn. ;-}

However, Kloot can presumably start his TGP up immediately on a real host that won't mysteriously dissappear. His actual losses should be fairly small. Presumably his trades will forgive him for getting involved with what appears to be a cheating freehost.

Torn's losses could be substantially larger.

People sure got upset.

it is a fun argument,

and you make great points

btw KCat I use your gallerys on a thumb tgp, I am sure you know that though

You can use 'em wherever you like, babe! :)

Jesus, if you guys are gonna drag this thing on into the next milenium, at least GET IT RIGHT!


Tommy - this statement was in relation to SEARCH ENGINE SPAMMERS - and had NOTHING to do with TGP jerkers

Circle jerk TGPs are not the ONLY place that uses hosted gallerys, and so why do they make the rules!! There are plenty on NO-CJ TGPs and linklists and hubs etc etc that all use hosted gallerys.



Bill, Yes I was with OutBack, and have since departed, but I also have my own programs and hosted content/galleries.

There are really two questions here that people are confusing.

1. Is it Torn's right as owner of the imagery to do what he did?

I would say yes.

2. Is it a good business decision to act on your rights?

In this specific case, I have no idea. But, if a sponsor generalized the concept to disallowing skimming on a thumb, I would advise them that they have made a poor business decision.

Things like this crop up in business everyday, not just the porn business. For example, I have had customers fall behind on payments a number of times over the course of any individual year in my bricks and mortar business. Is it my right to throw the account into collections and seek a judgement - yes. Would it be good business to do this in every case ? No, it would be suicidal to my own business given the prevailing practices in the industry.

Same thing here, IMO. It is a sponsors right, in my opinion, to limit the use of thumbs made from their content, but it would be suicidal to disallow skimming given the prevailing practice in the industry. Just because certain practices are common does not make them right, but fighting them may doom your business. It all boils down to a simple, everyday business descision not unlike those made by businesses every day.

^ What he said ^

Hi everyone, sorry we been at Internext since Thursday and the connection there was crappy at best, so I will try and catch up.

I do find it interesting that so many are upset that I called someone a “little piss ant”. Was it professional? No, but in the grand scheme of this thread does it matter? Who here hasn’t seen far worse over far less?

I also find it interesting that people are making comments and then coming back later and admit that they have not read everything.

Have I made mistakes over this? Maybe I have. Am I sorry? No I am not. Will I do things differently in the future? Yes I will.

Most of you still do not understand the lives of those with personal Amateur Sites; we live this 24/7. It’s a much different world when it’s you and your wife/husband in front of the camera. When the only thing you have is your image and reputation to keep your members you will go out of your way to make sure you are not misrepresented in any way. And we are VERY protective of our members as well as our image and reputation with them.

Everyone wants to point out I know nothing of the TGP world, that is not entirely true, I do know some things of it, and yes I did know and have always known “skimming” or "CJ" takes place, but I have only seen one thumb tgp which was just a few months ago and he didn’t skim, and since I do not surf tgp sites this was “new” to me.

I have been to so many sites over the last 4 years and not once have I had any affiliate site set off my Norton. The only sites that has EVER set off my Norton are the thieves who stole my images and put on all their links to whatever crap and sent them to popup hell (and even a few illegal sites) just to make $. And most of those who have done this were from Russia, Romania and other countries outside the US…. even the UK. So when I saw the Norton, and when I saw the “skimming” and when I saw the “who is” being in the UK I thought I saw the same shit I have seen over and over for the past 4 years.

I will still offer TGP’s to those who want to use them, if you do not want to use them, no hard feelings here, I understand. As I have also stated prior, I have every right to say how my content is used and I would like to mention that a new design and setup for KatCash is being worked on and should be done by end of the month, and for the first time in 4 years I will be adding a TOS.

I am amazed that I have started something that turned into this, last I saw, this was on 4 message boards, and from reading the post’s here and at one other board I have no problem with everyone jumping on the bandwagon to “ban Torn” since it is so apparent they have not read the whole story, but just responding to what they heard or what they wanted to read.

No matter what people, this would have never been a thread if I did not get 3 Norton warnings. Total time I would have spent on that site if it had no Norton warnings would not have been enough for me to click on anything since I just wanted to see the site, nothing more. If it was his or his friends or whoever’s fault that my Norton was set off I really don’t care. It was set off. I saw my content, and with my past experience of stolen content being used I terminated the account.

It is not my fault that so many of you are worried I will set a precedent on the use of content that you do not own the copyright on is being used. I did what I thought was in my best interest as I always have. What all the major affiliate sites do is not up to me; I have not and will not start a movement with them or anyone for starting new rules on the TOS for all tgp sites to end skimming. How people want to make their money is their business.

So many have chimed in on this, not many who have posted are even my affiliates, so going out of your way to tell me that you have never made me $ and will never make me $ is really a waste of your time, but if you feel the need feel free.


|peace|

Torn, since you posted back on here I was hoping you could clarify your stand on this issue. As a potential thumbs TGP webmaster do we have to ban your content as it may be used in a way you do not agree with? I dont want this to come off the wrong way but as I simply do not have time to police your affiliate program the most effecient way would be to simply ban it (and any other sponsors who dont want their thumbs used on skimming TGP's)

Thanks
~Ghost

Even program owners & those who shoot their own content don't understand this to the same level, as it's not their face, their image being presented to the world.