Here's the problem. The record keeping is going to handcuff many people. It's not the threat of going to jail, but the interuption of business. Couple that with some of the other nuggets of this revision, and small business folks will have hell trying to arrange their lives to be profitable.

The biggest nugget of trouble for the amateur section is that the DOJ has taken possible danger (small instances of underage photos taken through false ID or through mistakes we can't fathom) and replaced it with an imminent danger OR the death of a business for many small timers because their personal information is now posted for the creeps and ne'er-do-wells to abduct or victimize the good people that willingly expose themselves for these folks.

That's the one that gets us. We have a family. We have a child that we treasure and do what we can to isolate her from the "treacherous or lacivious" activity that we perform in. The feds, locals or whoever could threaten our family now.

That's the panic. I'm sorry, but when you threaten my family, or endanger those close to me, I don't panic, I react. I'm rational, but I'm also logical. It's still a crossroads for many of us that like to have the work, but not the notoriety of our neighbors knowing EXACTLY what we do for that living.

Wolf.

Juggernaut, no no and NO! You cannot use a mailboxes etc! You have to actually be there, and unless you can climb into that little box and work, you fail. That is a PO box, no matter how you want to play with it. DON'T SCREW AROUND AND TRY TO FIND EASY WAYS OUT. Remember, 5 years in a federal butt slamming prison is your reward.

No mail boxes - no drop boxes - no "suites"... just your real principle place of business.

As for your videos, you need a model release, you need all the cross referencing, and you will need to name and track each performance (unique identifying code unless it has a hard URL unique to that video). You will need to track every thumb, still image, and anything else. EVERY IMAGE, EVERY VIDEO, EVERY CLIP... you need a cross referencing entry for each item.

The DOJ wants to be able to say "This URL who are the models". or "this video who is in it" or "this gallery, show me all the model releases for the people on this gallery" or "this model, show me all the places you have images of her".

Don't fuck around. Don't play cute games. You are EXACTLY the type of person the DOJ will love to meet.

Alex

I'm not a 40 year old, but I could play one on WebTV. ;)

W

The sad thing is that I thought I was Christian. Now, I find that the only way to be Christian is to be forcibly made to follow God's will.

The last I remember in my classes at the seminary, is that God is willing to forgive us of our sins. There was a little jezebel in the bible that was allowed into heaven when she took the Lord as her Saviour and repented her sins.

Maybe I have a different version of the Bible from the Christian Coalition. I really need to quit buying my books from Wal-Mart and discount stores. Apparently these publications have ghost writers that prepare extra text.

Ultimately, I am saying, "Heather...you go girl!"

W

This is a grim forecast, Linda. But take it for what it's worth. There are some reasons to believe that our government will be as inept as they have always been, and life will proceed. June 24th will be the day I look to find out where we go from here.

We're preparing, and hoping for the best. But it's important that everyone understands that the risks of our rightwing brethren going to extremes is very real. If you don't vote, you might want to. If you vote without thought, you might want to change that.

No one saw Hitler in such a light until the smoke cleared Auschwitz. Let's not make the same mistake. We are in more control than we realize, but it's not going to happen without the lawyers, and our own rise to response.

Take heed. Action is privilege, no action is your circumstance. Ain't America grand!? Porn activists. Doesn't happen anywhere else.

Wolf. (stopping the W. response for fear of being lumped into a partisan position)

hmm... two words just jumped into my head when I read this: papers please. |shocking|

Why do I now have a bad feeling about starting my up and coming website? |cry|

Look, I know I've come across as a fatalist, and perhaps, on this subject I have that perspective, but honestly, if you're wise bout how you start, and go the right direction, there's no reason to believe that this won't work out for you, me and anyone else that is or wants to be a porn "producer."

I'm hoping to open eyes. The implications of our gov't in these matters is relevant to more than just the life we lead as adult webmasters and porn models.

There are so many things going on in and with our gov't that the loss of freedom looks like a small thing to deal with, as opposed to some of the other things.

I love this business, and I like most of you folks. Those I don't like, I haven't met or talked with.

Go forward with your site. There's no harm in it, and you have at least 28 days of freedom here. You are lucky to start it, the real pain in the arse is for anyone that has been in bidnezz since '95. Try to cross reference that long list of 10's or 100's of thousands of images and media.

Wow!

Good luck, don't be discouraged, but DO be careful!.

Wolf

Actually most of the world realized what Hitler was up to far before the war started. (We Americans failed to acknowledge the obvious truth.) I believe Churchill led the way in warning Europe about what was happening and about to happen. Everyone knew about the Jewish ghettos and that Jews were disappearing in the night a long time prior to the first howitzer blast. People invoke Hitler in a lot of really bad comparisons. You can't fairly compare the murder of six million Jews and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of soldiers to the demand for proper documentation on fuck pics.

does anyone have any ideas about what kinfd of software they are gonna use for this

probably the same thing that SOD and Vice use.

Excel. :)

Someone over on GFY came up with something for this, don't have a link though.

BTW, if you read through the 2257 regs, there was a mention of one comment suggesting the ability to use software to keep the documentation instead of only hard copies - that was my comment :D

It's hard to believe that out of the entire adult industry, with all the big players involved, that only one person suggested that - did anyone else write in about this during the comment period last year?

Ah. I was interpreting tgp and thumbtgp to be the same thing. So if my tgp has no thumbs of it's own and just links to someone else's server to display the gallery, I am OK?

ardentgent - you are responsible for what is published on your domain, and that will LIKELY include things like IFRAMES to other sites and images, banner, counters, and other things that are integrated into your page.

You cannot control what is on another site, you cannot edit it, therefore you are not producing it.

However, linking to illegal content (CP, whatever) is still a major no-no.

Alex

I'm probably just going to write everything out longhand on paper. I have half a million images to document and cross reference. I can't even get all the images themselves into a thumbs database because my computer starts bombing out when the database file size reaches two gigs.

If I work 24 hours/day and document and cross reference 12 images/second, I can get the job done by June 23rd. Except that none of the content providers I've purchased from over the years has the info I need available for me yet. And I have the suspicion that I can't write fast enough to handle the 12 images/second pace. I might not even be able to stay awake for a whole month. I guess I'll be going to prison unless the stalkers get me first after I publish my address for the search engines to spider.

And if I link to a gallery that does not posses the required 2257 documents, that is not my concern, correct?

This shows promise http://www.my2257.com/ but it's not scheduled to be released until July 1, 2005 :(

will Excel do this
the files have to be cross linked and include the images and movies

I do not think this is possable to do with paper
because a small 15 pic gallery requries copys of the 15 pics and thumbnails
plus the model relaese and the 2 forms of id

trying to find info in a 12 page thread is ridiculous

I'm using Excel and each tab is a different model, click on the tab and a list of sites with copies of the content. i mgiht have to split it by pages..

I'm not sure if my idea about their crosslinking is right.
I understand this. For instance you have a set of 100 pics completely documented and filed.
Out of that set you make 2 gals of lets say 15 pîcs.
Each gal has a url. I think that now for each pic you have used in the gals, you have to update the original file of the set giving for each pic the url where you have used it.
If you have used eg pic245 on both galleries, then you will find 2 url's for that pic in the original set documentation.
And in the documentation of the gallery you will find a reference to the original set/picture.

If it is something like this, then I think that it is not to difficult to make something in MS Access to keep track of all this. Might be easier then Excel.

Tommy, if you are good with Excel you should be able to come up with a routine to handle these requirements.

When this scare surfaced, I started writing a routine using a database structure. I need to take a long weekend and finish it.

I opened up access which someone told me is like excel
all i see is a bunch of cells

I dont see how this would work

That's my understanding. We have no way to know what they have or don't have. We might see a lot more good faith notices next the submit button that say something like 'By pressing submit you claim to have the proper documentation for the content used on the link being submitted'. Of course, I'm not sure if that's good or bad. One would think that having a Beware of Dog sign would show due diligence if you have an anti-social beast in your back yard, but legally it's considered an acknowledgement that your dog is a ferocious beast and opens you to lawsuits if he bites someone. Crazy, huh.

This is getting nuts. Lots of topics going on here and plenty of unfinished conversations. Maybe someone could add a new board while Jim is out on his moped.

Chop, I have to write this for a client this weekend -- I'd be more than happy to share work/ideas, etc. You have my email address.

Tommy, access is a database that requires definitions and forms to be defined.

There are two things in the law that make me think that a machine dedicated to the purpose of license tracking is a good thing. 1) the records must be present and searchable via name, stage name, depiction location, title. 2) if it is on a machine shared with other activities, things could turn into a fishing expedition.

I did find some very confusing reading regarding US Producers doing non-US shoots and have asked for clarification. For data recording purposes, I have what I need for this client, but, that is one confusing law as written.

I don't see how any kind of automatic database search your server for pics is going to match up what pics belong to which 2257 document.

I figure I have over one million urls with pics. I would need a much lager monitor to view these spread sheets. I doubt that I would even remember what most of the models name's were or which content suppler they came from.

I am very happy that I don't touch the teen niche. :)

I am getting a number of requests for documentation from Thumb TGP's. I suspect the "big" sponsors are flooded.

Honestly, I do not see how a sponsor, in good conscience, is going to be able to just hand out model info. I would not mind hosting the thumb, but that would not comply. Sure hate to lose the traffic and some of those guys have been with me from the beginning.

Jim & I have talked about opening a 2257 forum, but without a real live lawyer to moderate it, it's all just opinion....like this thread :)

You want good hard 2257 info? Get a lawyer :D

For small operators, a spread sheet app might work, but I think any app to handle this is going to have to use a relational database. IMO, Access is not going to be strong enough either (but again I have only used Access a few times)

Don't underestimate access though never tested it with over a million records. But there are other relational db's.
For the people with huge amounts and fixed procedures it might be a good idea to (let) make some customized stuff. Perhaps with Oracle or so.

And about Excel. I'm not sure but I have the feeling that you will have a lot of redundancy.

Dude relax. You are jumping on me for asking a simple question. I got news for you. I worked for the government I'm sure allot longer then you and can bet you that the people they hire to over look this whole issue. will be hard chargers for about 3 months but after the long hours, little pay and major paper work and politics this whole issue will be the same as any other issue the government ever launched towards the adult industry. As far as my stuff on my box. It's all there. Every model is fully tracked. Images, video feeds, time online, thumbs, model release etc. is documented and saved. So it's been my personnal experience they will not be comming to your house to put you out of business, they will be comming to your house to make sure you are not promoting CP. Which if you have all the documentation in order should not have any issues. I understand many people here don't have control over much of this. But thats the way it is. Now everyone here can talk about how this affects them but fact is I would rather spend my time talking to an experienced internet laywer and getting my paperwork in order. No one here is remotely able to give legal advice on this subject. So don't freak out cause some people are givin their thoughts as to what this law means. Like Jim said talk to a laywer. That's the best advice in this whole thread.

juggernaut, I think you haven't read the 12 pages that have gone before this. I don't think you have read the regs as published... and that is a very important thing to do.

I don't have to go any further than the po box thing. That is a very basic thing covered clearly in the whole discussion from the DOJ. It is a serious issue that is causing endless stress to many people. I am not trying to jump on you, but I don't want anyone to get false hope or to take misguided suggestions as their solution for business, only to find out those solutions don't match up to the requirements of the law.

If you are running a cam business, then you have it worse than most. The new requirements for storage of the original content is going to be a challenge. I wish you luck with it.

Alex

I've actually been giving a lot of thought to expanding my current Excel/HTML databases that I use for keeping track of banners, photos, page URLs, etc. They only run locally now (never been uploaded to my server), but I don't *think* that will be a major issue.

I haven't worked out all the details yet, but if I come up with something efficient and functional, I might be persuaded to share |cool|

I'd pitch in to get a lawyer to moderate and the truth is even with a lawyer it's an opinion. 2 lawyers would very likely have 2 seperate opinions on this.

SirMoby, You are 100% correct, I have spoken to 3 over the last 2 days, 3 different stories from each Attorney, And I refuse to pay for a forth opinion

Has anybody read this article...

https://www.ynot.com/modules.php?op=...ticle&sid=9459

and thoughts?

I have a friend (he's difficult to reach though) who is a federal lawyer, works for the US Government. I plan on asking him about the 2557 regs when I see him again...

Here's a question...and I am not asking for legal advice here. What are you all doing about dates of photos, etc. I am going back to 1999 with my own pictures and based on the computer I have stored them in, and based on my logo which has the year, I have a month and year for my pictures. But what kind of dates do the rest of you all keep? I mean, it's bad enough that we have to track each and every depiction but we have to add the date too? I cannot even imagine what content producers are facing if I have just myself and George to track. What a headache I have....

Linda |cry|

RDBMS backend (why go commercial when you can go free?)
 

Why is everyone always running for a commercial solution? There are how many sites using MySql that are fielding how many hits with how much data? If you're using Windows you also have the option of using MSDE as your RDBMS backend. MySql or MSDE plus a Perl or VBScript (if you're using Windows) would do wonders for making things easier. Of course that requires someone who can program in either language to make that type of a program....whistles(yes, programming is something that is also on my list of skills)