You wanted my opinion & I gave it to you. If you don't like it, go fuck yourself.

I rest my case. :)

:(

Dude why not just do it Greenguy's way? He does run a very successful LL after all.

When in Rome...

Ok, that was a bit harsh & I do apologize for it.

But like I said, I can't help you with this project as I have no knowledge of the way you want to do things.

You might as well ask me how to code a script for a search engine, becasue I have no knowledge of that either :)

Again, good luck with your project |shake|

Hey GG....

Can you help me how to code a script for a search engine??

XPorn

Guess I chose a good day to be away from the desk.
|couch|

Here is my little bitty bit o' input on accepting galleries on a link list, and yes - I definately agree that by mixing galleries and free site listings, by default, means it is not a link list. (allow me to duck as DD tosses a brick at my head) I believe GG prefers the term 'morphed conglomerate'. ;) I still list galleries from a very small handful of submitters on WW. But I did not build a link list with the intention of accepting galleries. It was the other way around. I had a crappy TGP that I decided to slowly phase into a link list to see if it could be salvaged. Every week I try to weed out more and more old galleries. If there is one thing I have noticed since I began accepting free site submissions, it's that galleries on a non-skim site are nothing more than a traffic leak. A couple of my current gallery submitters do submit gals that bring in some hits, but most are dead wait. (Free sites and link lists have a much more cooperative relationship.) So, if you really want my opinion, it would be to toss the gallery listings out the door, or at the very least, keep them seperate from the free site listings the way Cleo does.

wow...this certainly took an ugly turn :(

Interesting point of contention too. I'm very close to opening FPP to TGP submissions, as well as a complete redesign. Several reasons for the decision, not the least of which is more submissions = more content. Actually I get quite a few submissions every day, just not that many listable sites. Rather than lowering my standards and accepting some of the absolute garbage that gets submitted by the 'teams', I'd rather open to galleries and continue maintaining my quality standards by only accepting quality galleries.

Yea, perhaps no longer a link list by the conventional wisdom, but is it really that much different? This is almost a tomato/tomato thing to me. It is still a site that lists links to content...whether that content be free sites/pay sites/tgp galleries...it's all content.

Anyway, sorry to see this thread get off track...was a lot of good information floating around in here.

I'll tread carefully here while I say a few things
|couch|

One of the things I've found over the years is that everyone has their own definition of what a link list is...which is fine. I think any webmaster who starts one is pretty much open to how they decide to run it and what to allow in their database. As for moving the thread (or perhaps renaming it), is pretty much up to GG's decision...the important factor here for newbies is that Kristian's project is still going and "they" can follow along and see the progress. I would also think it's important to let them know that there are different kinds of link lists and everyone will have their own version. The idea I think should be the foundations of establishing one. There will also be pro's and con's of what to do and what not to do.

I see a link list as a site that provides links to free gallery sites, blogs, AVS, and pay sites in it's most basic, yet usable way for the end user (the surfer). I've seen a few before that integrate galleries within the standard site results, which is fine, but if a link list is going to or planning to list a "large" amount of them, it would be preferred to put them into their own area. Penisbot is a good example.

I know for mine, I classify 69toplinks as a directory which is more than just a link list (and about to go through a large upgrade). I was planning to integrate galleries into the standard directory, but then thought, nah, if I do that, then it would affect the sites that are listed.

Anyways, its late and past my bedtime, this boy needs his beauty sleep..lol...hope all goes well with everyone and progress continues :)

Hi Kristian,

I agree you can do with your site what you want but freesite traffic and TGP traffic are different kind of surfers and I also believe you should keep them appart from eachother.

Can you consider the idea to put them into their own area?

Also note what Useless Warrior is saying out of experience.

I really hope we can continue this thread I am learning every day |thumb

Yanno... if we could all go fuck ourselves, we would have a lot of content problems solved. :D

Seriously though... I hope this thread continues too. It's already saved me from going down two paths I'd have been sorry to get too far down. And it's helped me make some decisions on future development projects.

Way back on page 2, I jumped into this thread and mentioned that the new site I was developing would eventually link to both free sites and galleries, and would have its own blog.

The thing is, I agree very much about the surfers being of a bit different mindset when visiting each kind of promotion. My intent is to have a warning page, like I do now, and offer surfers the choice of visiting the LL of movie free sites, the MGP of movie galleries, or the site Blog.

You see, I think there's a way to feed traffic from one section to the other, but I also think it's going to be tricky to make sure it flows in the right directions, and that it doesn't wind up one big diluted mess.

Which is one thing that I think Greenguy and UW and others have been warning us about here.

I see some very fundamental differences in the dynamics of LLs vs TGPs (and Blogs of course). I'm starting to understand more about "why" LL traffic converts better than TGP traffic. So I'm going to offer my suggestion/vote, Kristian, that you develop separate sections for each kind of traffic.

Now, I'm really a beginner when it comes to LLs and TGPs and Blogs, so I probably should just shut up.

But I wanted to say that I hope this thread continues, no matter whether it's a Link List or a Directory that's getting built. And I really do hope that no matter what's getting built, everyone here would still be inclined to stop by and offer whatever helpful bits and pieces we can.

Okay, that's more than enough out of me.

Simon

P.S. Who am I kidding, if we could all go fuck ourselves, there'd be a lot less people showing up for work today. (Sure, go ahead and say "not me" in your head, we know it makes you feel better.) |jester|

A "link list" to me is a free site list, thats how it's always been. Not a list of any sort of links, but links to submitted free sites.

A list of any sort of links is a "FFA list" free for all. Almost anything goes. Some are not even reviewed, you just go paste a link and submit and it shows up instantly.

I dunno, but if it's called a "Link List" in adult, then it implies (or is inferred with 99% accuracy) that it is a list of submitted free sites, plus your sponsor links (whether they be banners, links to paysites, or text links)

I had every intention of continuing with this thread. We were building what could have been a fantastic informational resource for anyone in the adult industry. Although it began as my thread about my story, in only a few days there were signs that it was evolving into something bigger : Other webmasters sharing their ongoing plans, experiences, ideas and tips, in a manner of openness that is uncommon in our industry. However, in an effort to restore harmony to the board and avoid subjecting it to possible repeats of yesterday's discord, I've decided to limit my involvement to email conversations.

My virtual door is always open and I love a good chat about business. Anyone wanting to discuss topics started in this thread, feel free to contact me.

personal email : admin@pornmoviedirectory.com :)

I had a really long post almost completely typed up & then I saw this, which was posted 2 days into it.

The writing was on the wall then (and I'm pissed that Useless caught onto it before I did :D)

Well I have a question and maybe it can help keep this thread on track. What is a proper layout for a LL? I have been playing around with my new site and have not really got to into it as I have alot on my personnal side of life. But from this thread I realized I was doing it wrong, completly wrong. Which is fine by me cause it's all a learning experience. Anyway back to my question, what is the proper layout? Things have gotten so crazy its very easy today to confuse what is right and wrong with any type of site. You can look over someones site and never know if you are looking at the correct stuff.

There really is no "one layout" for a link list. In fact, its really up to you to decide how you would like it to be and will depend on what your link list will offer the surfer. The key though is to make it so that as soon as a surfer comes into your site, they can easily see where to go to find what they are looking for, or at least give them options to choose from. Nothing should be hard to find and site navigation is definitely important. In simple terms, you should at least have the basics:

1. Category list of niches
2. the ability to easily go to another category from the one you are in
3. the ability to provide easy to find navigation to any other section

For the actual site listings themselves, you will definitely want to have the Site Title, Description, and of course the Link to the site. It is at the descretion how a webmaster wants to list sites: Alphabetically, by date of submission, by hits, by votes, or a combination (if your script allows it).

Not sure if this helps or not, but I am sure the others will offer more :)

It does help, but this is why I was confused. Most of the LL you see have their index that has sponsers and trades along with warnings enter links and some have cat links at the bottom, once you enter the cats, again you see mostly sponser graphical ads and the text links on the top that are either featured or premium links that go to sponsers either fpa or hpa, then the FS below that. #3 is the only one that has me really wondering cause alot of the sites I have looked at are not that way. There seems to be so much text and links on the pages sometimes it's very hard to tell if you are even going to stay within the site itself. But as layouts kind of go, thats how I looked at LL. Wrong, right?

Usually you will find most LL's will have the index with a selection of hard link trades with others and of course, the Warning details that the person is about to enter an adult site...a lot of times the extra text of categories and other things on the index page helps with onsite SEO efforts and again, everyone has their preferences to this.

As for the #3 one...many LL's I've seen have wild text all over the place and could frustrate the surfer and can be hard to find your way around. I think you will find more organized link sites in the form of "directories" but for LL's, some are very easy to use and others not so. I know Ultimate Warrior said before "Keep it Simple Sucker" is actually a valid point for most LL's to establish that mind-set. However, those who want to start a LL should also keep in mind the surfing habits of a Porn Surfer. There are many variables to think about when planning one. I sometimes like to say "dare to be different" but still use the basics. There is nothing wrong with being creative and design it as an encased structured Link list without borderless text all over the page, while keeping a simple clean user interface for the surfer in mind. Penisbot is a good LL...

I've been giving more and more thought about the excess galleries that I have felt burdened with for so long at WW and this thread has motivated me to remove much of them sooner than planned and to get the ball rolling on making it look much more like a real link list. My amateur links page is one that has been thinned pretty heavily within the last couple of days. The galleries you see left are pretty much gallery submissions from partners and a few old FHGs. Now, compare that to my big tits page and you'll see a ton more galleries there. I have a mountain of selecting and deleting to go, but killing most of the galleries shouold increase the amount of traffic going to the free sites, rather than the galleries, some of which are 3-4 years old. I'm trying to preserve the galleries that have been submitted by current parnter submitters, but will eventually prune them in the future rather than listing them indefinately. I stopped listing galleries on my main/new links page months ago and only list free sites there. That was all part of slowly getting my bookmarkers used to free sites after being a TGP for so long. Of course, it does reside in a directory named 'TGP' and that will not change. I'm not going to chance pissing off the SEs just so I can pretty-up my URL. ;)

God man did this thread kill this whole cat of the site? There has been no posts here for 2 days.

i went again thru this whole thread because i stopped reading it after i posted myself on page 6 or so, there are somethings i wanna say (who cares what i say:D) first i am learning seo, yes they use the big fonts and goddamn do i hate those big fucking fonts myself, i did on my moviepornlist on the index page and it is there for 6 weeks already or so i didnt do my other pages there because .......(maybe because i am a woman) those big fonts dont look good ( i am gonna change mine back to small again) for me a linksite is: listing free sites and listing only my own free hosted galleries and selfmade galleries in an galleries cat, a blogs cat i also have but then on my other linksite, i dont list pay sites well only with my refferer. the word directory means to me, you have all kind of stuff in it and will accept, galleries, blogs, free sites, paysites, searchengins or whatever, directory for me is different then a linksite. Now this is just my opinion.. its a pitty nothing is posted here anymore, kristian if you do believe in your project then you just should post. so your thread is changed to an other forum so what? did that change you way of thinking about your project? what about all those people who where following this thread, yeah in my eyes its also not an linksite, but you where going very well with the thread, so hell oke its not an linksite in others eyes, but who cares? If i was you i would keep posting and go for it:)

hey stuveltje :)

I'll make my one and only exception and post in this thread because it's you. I chose to discontinue my involvement here due to Greenguy's attitude and because the thread itself was bringing a negative and argumentative atmosphere to a normally pleasant board. The argument was never as simple as you have suggested. A number of months ago Greenguy and Jim came to me and asked me to document setting up a paysite. It never happened and months later I suggested doing it but for a link list. Greenguy's reason for pulling out of the project here was that he could not support the documentation of a site that listed blogs and galleries. I chose not to believe this could be the real reason because I credit him with more intelligence. The difference - galleries and blogs / no galleries and blogs - is so slight. His reasons given, as many have agreed in private, were simply not plausible.

I suggest you re-read those last few pages. You will see more clearly, I think, that I only ever had good intentions and would never have been so petty - as you suggest - to pull out because of a disagreement over such a trifle as terminology. You might also ask yourself, had you been in my position, giving away such personal details and providing such a useful thread to this community, if you would have been inclined to contine after similar treatment.

Again, let me make it clear, I pulled out because of Greenguy's attitude and the fact that the thread was bringing arguments and a negative atmosphere to what is usually a pleasant little board.

I had plans to do several things with this thread, some of which included building traffic to a link site with a brand new blog feeder empire, growing traffic while in the sandbox to make returns in the first few months, and several seo techniques which - although I personally am not an expert technican - were discovered through expensive paid courses (I'm a believer in education especially when it helps me earn more money). I am not taking these away from anyone here. 9 webmasters are actually corresponding with me and I have several veterans giving me more help and insight than I deserve. The project is still very much alive. I just choose not to continue with it here for the reasons given.

:)

Yuppers |thumb

ackkkk stu <----- will read all again now in daytime, lol. Well i know you didnt pull out because of the reason i posted , but you guys all write so much that i had to pick one of the examples out of all that writing, because if i realy write what i wanted to say then i need 6 days and a huge novel to explain what i mean with my dutch chinese writing:D Well its good to hear your project is still alive and that you have alot of webmasters giving you the help and corresponding with you to keep your project rocking, looking forward to see when its finished|thumb thanks for posting back, lol it was much easier to just read your post then go thru allllllllll the pages again:D