Verotel drop their bomb..
 

Just when you thought you were safe...

http://www.verotel.com/new_ipsp.html

The registration fee of each Verotel Pro account is USD 1,500 as a one-time fee and USD 260.00 as a yearly fee. The yearly fee will be deducted in 52 weekly payments of USD 5.00 per week.

|sad|

DD

Aww, you didn't paste the fine print for ticketclub where they take your domain and hold it in escrow.

Didnt read that far.. :) I am Verotel Pro...

either way.. it all sucks..

DD

How considerate of them, to offer to take ownership of their customers' domain names. All those pesky domains in my name are just a headache anyway.|lightsabe

Ouch!!!!

The last important change is that Verotel has reached agreement to become a registrar for domain names on the Internet. Currently your domain name might be registered with other ICANN accredited registrars, such as Network Solutions, Register.com, or GoDaddy. You pay annual fees for this with these registrars.

If you have a Verotel Ticketsclub account, starting November 15, 2004, Verotel will take over the registrar responsibility through one of our subsidiaries, as an ICANN accredited registrar, for your domain names for which you accept credit card transactions.

With this change, the registrant of the domain name will be Ticketsclub and not the Ticketsclub merchant. More information will be made available later this month. This change has a couple of advantages for the Ticketsclub merchant:

1 The WHOIS information shows Ticketsclub as the owner of the website. Therefore, Ticketsclub will handle all abuse complaints in accordance with Verotel's content and anti-spam policies.
2 Ticketsclub takes the domain name 'in escrow' from the Ticketsclub merchant. That means that the Ticketsclub merchant remains the ultimate beneficiary of the domain name. With your Verotel ID and Secret you can at any time choose to transfer the domain name to another registrar from within the Verotel Control Center.
3 The Ticketsclub merchant does not have to pay any annual domain name registration fees. These fees are paid by Verotel.

Hopefully these changes make sense. The Verotel Team plans to open its new website with all detailed information in November 2004.

Hopefully these changes will make sense??????

I just don't know what to think about putting my domains in Verotels name.
It just doesn't feel right.
What do you guys that have been around the block a few times think

Actually, there is a silver lining to them taking escrow.

Basically, the problem Visa/MC has with TicketClub type transactions is that it is very close to factoring, i.e. taking charges on your merchant account for someone else.

So, by Verotel appearing to take ownership of the domain, Its no longer factoring. To Visa/MC, it verifies their 'ownership' and makes it look like they are not factoring. This is what Websitebilling and Globill tried to do before they decided it was more profitable to move to a bearer share island and cash out with reserve money + the last month of income from hundreds of sponsors.

The other issue is that the domain in escrow is now subject to laws in Netherlands -- that will allow more flexibility in the types of clients they are able to accept. Underage in the Netherlands is a lot different than underage in the USA -- potentially a bad thing there. The ownership chain might become difficult to follow -- I can see lots of people taking advantage of that with regards to taxable income.

Overall, Verotel has done exactly what they needed to do, and is posturing itself to be able to stay in business with Visa/MC's current regs. Its the right move, but sounds quite draconian if you take it at face value.

They really could have written that letter a little more clearly.

whats new on there? They posted the same "news" months ago...

I agree with cd34. There are some definite advantages to letting Verotel "own" your domains. There are definite risks involved, too. I doubt that Verotel can automatically have your domains transferred from your existing registrars. You'll have to agree to those transfers. I'd guess that Verotel will come up with a contract for you to sign that lays out how the whole thing will work. For this to be beneficial to Verotel and you in regard to VISA and such, I'd guess that they'll need 100% participation. If you won't sign the contract, you'll probably need to find another payment provider. I'm just speculating, but I've been through a similar process with another company that went a similar route.

It seems to me like verotel is doing everything they can to find loopholes in visas regulations, sooner or later visa will close all those loop holes and verotel will be belly up.

Yes, VISA could do that. All they have to do is decide that they will no longer process directly or indirectly any transactions related to the adult industry. I don't know if that would cause Verotel to go "belly up," as you say, because they deal muchly with European credit card companies, but I'm sure that it would put a lot of companies under.

No, I dont think they'll completely stop processing adult sites, look at ccbill and epoch, they both fully comply with visa and bend over backwards to make sure visa is happy. thats the way to go. On the other hand companies like globill and verotel keep on trying to stay compliant but avoid what is unevitable. globill went down, next is verotel. IMO.

I hope the hell your wrong, I found Verotel when Globill folded.


I've learned my lesson on panicking though I transferred all my accounts and domains into a Tijuana girls name then decided that was a bad idea and it was a Virtual 3 week Verotel Nightmare getting checks back in my name

all I can say is heavy

I doubt if Verotel will be next to go down. VISA is putting the squeeze on internet payment service providers (IPSP's). They keep tightening regulations and increasing penalties. It's great that some IPSPs like ccBill and Epoch have managed to stay compliant, and that many of the AVS's have not yet been targeted for destruction by VISA. GloBill's move offshore didn't save them when VISA threatened their offshore bank. What Verotel seems to be doing is making itself something other than an IPSP so the VISA rules won't apply.

I'm not associated with Verotel. I don't even use them for any of my sites. But I'm glad to see that they're taking steps to protect themselves from measures that VISA might take in the future. I don't know why you'd think that they'll be next to go down, since they aren't as dependent on VISA as some other companies. VISA doesn't have the credit card monopoly in Europe that it has in other places.

wow - looks like a real mess to me :(

Are they doing this to avoid the geographical rules of Visa US & Visa EU? They don't mention that you need an address in any particular area. If it works, it could be a good solution for webmasters outside the US. I think I'll wait & see before I cough up the $1500 though.

"Currently, October 2004, it appears that more and more online Internet merchants find their principal place of business outside of the United States. All these new merchants need security and compliance verification with Verotel's European acquiring banking relationships."

The Latest E-mail from Verotel

Dear Patrick

We have received some questions regarding our last
announcement. From the correspondence we have received,
it appears that one main issue was unclear;

Change of Registrar

A registrar change to TicketsClub is only an
administrative change. As your new registrar we
will function just like your current registrar.
(Network Solutions, GoDaddy, Dotster etc) - except:

- Its FREE (others charge up to USD 50 per domain name/year)

- Anonymous Listing & WHOIS (lookups do not provide
beneficial ownership info)

You retain 100% ownership of your domain name and have the ability to
update the contact information or transfer the domain name to another
registrar at any time.

This is a FREE service offered to Ticketsclub merchants for as
long as your account is in good standing with Ticketsclub.

We hope that this satisfies most answers. More information will
be available on the new Verotel website, available mid November.

We thank you for your business, and we are looking forward
to work with you further.

Kind regards,


Verotel Management

Well, given that last message, I no longer have a clue what Verotel is doing. It looks like they just want to keep the whois information secret for all their customers. I suppose I can see some benefits to that...

I dont know why you are all going on about this... it seems clear from the first message to me.. they just want to take "legal responsibilty" for your domain.. and they need the physical ability to control if it is online or offline.

If they turn your domain off, they dont want to process for you and you can move it to another registrar, no matter what they turned you off for.

If you think there is potential risk of your account being cancelled by verotel before now...... I'd say your risk is the same after this domain terms change.

It's very simple actually. The credit card companies want more transparency for the end-user. What they want to achieve is that wherever the customer turns a particular company's name appears in relationship to their transaction - in this case TicketsClub.

Under old models there were too many parties involved which caused for confusion when the end-user wants to contact someone in the event of a dispute. For example, you go to a website and signup, the WHOIS for the website states the name of a company which has nothing to do with the subsidiary running the website or in some cases there is absolutly no meaningful WHOIS information (e.g., GoDaddy private domain registrations), fictitious individuals are listed to contact, you can't contact the webmaster in a timely manner from the e-mail address listed on the website or the customer service e-mail address is something other than at the domain you signed up at, your credit card statement has the billing company's name, etc.

Under the new TicketsClub model, the end-user sees the same name all over the place i.e., TicketsClub when they signup, TicketsClub on their credit card or bank statement, TicketsClub for the WHOIS with TicketsClub contact information, they receive a confirmation/receipt for the transaction from TicketsClub, etc. - everything points to the same company - less confusion for the end-user.

Of course TicketsClub cannot be registrar for your domain without your authorization, the owner or responsible party of the domain has to initiate the transfer.

Just as with other registrars, you still retain ultimate ownership of the domain and you retain the right to transfer your domain at any time to another registrar should you no longer want to process with TicketsClub. Please note: in order to be a registrar you have to go through ICANN in which there are regulations.

As for the $1500 registration fee, this does not apply to TicketsClub accounts; it is only applicable to Verotel PRO accounts in which the registrar requirement also does NOT apply. With a Verotel PRO account the trasparency is also provided because you have to show documents proving who you are or for the directors of your company, articles of incorporation, and your domain has to be in the same name.

Hope that clears it up a bit.

If you have any additional questions or are interested in signing up for a Verotel PRO or TicketsClub account, please feel free to contact me.

Great so with that said our Verotel fee should drop drastically as you are the merchant of record.

Then what if you do not want all your records to say Ticketsclub, because you use Ibill, Ccbill, Probilling & Verotel.

Domain name records that do not have correct info on them anyway, is illegal. So if you have a doamin as your client and they do not have proper info, delete their account.

the biggest benefit of all this would be a drastic cut in fees from Verotel. The discount rate they are probably paying is 1.5%. so why then if they are going to be the merchant of record, should we be paying, what is it? 14.5%?!

I will not do this. I process with 4 ipsp because none of you are reliable. I am able to get my ownmerchant account with standardpayments. So if I can get my own merchant account, so can you guys.

Only problem, I can get merchant acct and gateway. But i need backend billing software that will talk to the gateway and add username/pass. I am not a techy chick so I am having toruble with the last piece of the puzzle.

Standard payments will give adult site a merchant acct but you need billing software. Card member services still processes for adult sites, so i was told, and they are next on my list.

Now if you pro webmasters can help me out with software, we all share info and knowledge we can all have our own merchant accounts and not have expense passed on for high risk sites to us. We are no all high risk and mismanged. I haven't had one chargeback with any of the 4 processors i use all year.

So verotel what's up? You are only seeking to benefit your selves. Where are the benefits of cost savings you will enjoy being passed onto us?!

Besides, with everything saying Ticketsclub it shoots "Name Branding" to shit and the interest you have accumlated as a going concern in your own website you forfeit to someone else.|pissleft|

After you pay ibill 1500, verotel 1500 and ccbill 750, (assuming you want backup processing) I do not see how you cannot afford to get your own merchant account.

I have a great idea, which is really just a dream but...

How bout every adult webmaster boycotts Visa. If the whole adult indusrty refuses to process Visa see how fast the miss their % of our revenue. (Only prob, we will miss it too.) It will put a hurt on them. I'd like to see how fast they change their tune then. IT'S ONLY A DREAM, 15% OF ZERO IS ZERO!!!!|knockout|

I have different (legal) info in my administrator and billing section as it is. Ticketsclub is only listed as the administrator so why should it be a problem at all?

To begin with, I'm not sure how a connection got made between the transparency that the credit card companies are looking for and lower processing fees (1 + 1 not equal to 3). TicketsClub receives no discount from our banks for doing this and therefore there are no "savings" to pass on. Furthermore, people always assume what the processor's discount rate is and I don't mind saying they are OFTEN way off the mark as here also is the case.

Another thing that most webmasters don't consider when weighing the pro's and con's of having their own merchant account is that there is a lot more that goes into credit card acceptance than just automating a computer process to accept transactions. For example:

1. Fraud scrubbing
2. Customer Service
3. Technical Support & Programming
4. Payment disbursement
5. Toll Free telephone numbers
6. Financial bookkeeping
7. Risk Management
8. Gateway software

Also realize that payment processing companies are doing all of this for thousands of websites/merchants which means an office building, employees, employee benefits, payroll, taxes, vendors, suppliers, etc. Of course the overhead would be less for a webmaster that was only doing all of the above for only his/her sites.

In principle I have to agree with you. If you can manage to keep your own merchant account in good standing with your acquiring bank and end up paying less fees than what you would pay with a payment processor (all expenses considered) you would be dumb not to go that route. However, the reality is totally different. I'm sure you've heard of webmasters/merchants who at one time or other had a merchant account and "burned it", "lost it", "got eaten up by fines", etc. I also know many webmasters that still have their own merchant accounts but only use them for the lower risk transactions (e.g., selling products where shippments are signed for, for loyal subscribers that would never think of doing a chargeback, etc.)

If you want a better picture of what you're paying your payment processors for, bump up the discount rate at least a few more percentages, then add a percent for every extra service payment processors provide then add another couple of percent on top of that for taking ALL THE RISK and you'll probably be more in the ballpark.

And just for the record, I wish you the best of luck with your own merchant account but I would venture to guess, sooner or later, you'll be back on the IPSP or 3rd party model just from all the headaches in trying to keep your merchant account in good standing - that is if you don't go bankrupt from the Visa/MC fines everytime you go over the 1% CB level.

My $0.02 ;-)

Hi Darryl nice to see you posting here mate :)

I agree ... its great to see a Verotel guy on here!
GG&J would be the only board I have seen that on. :)

I post or lurk on several other boards. It's just that there's always so much going on around here or in the industry that there's not always time for me to spend on the boards.

At any rate, thanks for the welcome guys!

|waves|

I do not blame Verotel for changing their business model. They have to in order to adapt. The whole point is basically we, the adult internet industry, are being monopolized by big business. None of whom want to have any part of us until they get to the bank. No 'big business' wants to admit they are in bed with the porn guys, but they all are. The banks, software vendors, payment processors, they all bed together and they all have huge mainstream clients that would sh*t if they ever made the connection. The further down the line you get, the more businesses the 'big guys' have to hide behind to get a piece of our action drives the price of processing up for us. Costing us the most because we are the end user. Our product we are buying from the banks is costing us at a premium because no 'big business' will tell their mainstream clients they process for adult. They are all connected. Up to the ones that even say they do not process adult. They do but thru so many different fronts and middle men. The problem is we are being monopolized by big business. It's not Verotel's fault if they can survive. I hope they do. I just want to continue using Verotel. I do not have $1500 to pay for pro and am shy of $1000 week with them because I used 4 different processors til last week when Ibill went retarded again. Now I still use 3. So I can not be automatically considered pro. And I process with CCbill and probilling aside from Verotel. So I do not want my whois to say, "ticketsclub". So then I have to give up my Verotel business on 11/15/04 including rebills because I can't change my whois. Just like Verotel needs to have whois say "ticketsclub", I have just as good reason why it can't say "ticketsclub". Why does this apply to everyone, even good and honest webmasters paying for mistakes of many. I can't be resposible for many, only myself. So Verotel guy, you want to work this out for my company so we can still do business? Or not? I just want my whois to say my name and Verotel still gets my business. Verotel guy, check my chargebacks. I have none, correct. So why do I have to do this? If I had $1500 I would consider giving it for pro account, but my ass in debt. It's been a rough economy with Bush in office. Well, Jerry Springer is on now, thanks and consider what I say about being monopolized. See how it is going to be down the road if we somehow don't get out from under the grips of the payment processors. I know this can't happen in one day, but we should think about other solutions on the long term as an industry.|rasta| if ya got it |potleaf|