Are you *SURE* she's 18?
 

Just kind of wondering what you guys' thoughts were when it comes to chicks that look under 18. I'm going to pick on the folks at nubiles.net here because some of their 'talent' looks awfully young... Are we to just blindly assume that if they say they have 2257 docs ( and very likely do ) that the chicks are of legal age? It kind of scares me that if there's some shady shit going on somewhere down the line that is out of my control I could potentially get in a lot of trouble. What do you guys think?

b1ng0

If you feel uneasy about using them then don't. :)

I don't care if the model is 90 years old if the model doesn't look over 18 I don't accept the site.

Alphawolf hit the nail on the head.

Let me also add & ask:

Are you sure she/he/they signed a model release?

Are you sure the website operator has a license to use the content?

If they have a 2257 page up & it looks to be in order, then all 3 questions have been answered.

there are a few content providers that visit ggandjim often and are fairly well respected. if you buy your content from a "good" source you are fairly safe.

if you buy your content from some guy living in eastern "Krackastan" I would worry a little

(i just hotlink all of greenguys content because I know he checks his 2257 stuff) |horse|

Really you should just do what I do and steal Tommy's stuff. He has much better content then Greenguy. |potleaf|


|clown|

LOL, that's part of what scares me, who knows where paysite x gets their content from. All points taken though, and just in case it needs to be said, I was not accusing nubiles.net of anything. :)

Yes you are. Your original message implies that the content is questionable.

If the thread was supposed to spark discussion then you should have left the name of the site out.

If it were one of my paysites, you would be getting a letter from my lawyer.

I won't list or use content that I believe looks young. Whats worse is when beside those pics are the terms: "Only if you like them young" and "Barely Legal" etc.

Well, I can't edit my post but if a mod wants to, feel free to mask it out with *s or whatever. I didn't mean for it to come accross as though they have underage models. In fact I've seen nothing but positive comments about them and thier program, it was just the first site that came to mind.

I have a very narrow definition of what teen is. I see far too many submissions to the teen category or described as teen that, if I were picking the content, I never would have considered teen. Most teen models look too old to me. I hate seeing mid to late 20s babes being described as teen unless they really look like they are 18 or 19. But if they look younger than that, I won't accept them.

As far as Nubile's girls go. I'd bet you could legally take most them out for a few drinks. It's just the way they are being shot that makes them look teen. It's all props, poses, and facial expressions that does the trick. A teen girl carries herself differently than a slightly more experienced girl. If Nubiles can convince you that those babes are teens, then they are doing their job well.

And b1ngo, don't worry about your comment about Nubiles. I seriously doubt that they'd be insulted. If they read this thread they'll probably be pleased to see that their content is good enough to fool a webmaster. That's the secret to any teen sponsor's success. You've got to sell the salesman before he/she can sell the consumer.

Well, those are 2 very different terms - the 1st could be interpreted one way or the other, but "barely legal" technically means that they are legal.

If there's horrendous wallpaper and a colorful couch in the set, then you know it comes from eastern Krackastan.

I was just talking to GG yesterday about sites with guys or girls content that look very young yesterday and the way they name the sites like "young boy or young girl and young teen" that i don't like so like Cleo said and GG told me. General rule of thumb is that when in doubt, throw it out. :)

You know what Filthy Earl says... Old enough to take my ten dollars, old enough to get banged in the back of a pick-up truck during half time.
:D

2257 is an America only issue, and I think that there are some privacy concerns about full implementation in Europe. If 2257 causes European webmasters to break local laws, then they won't do it, and their declaration may not be complete.

Maybe the best answer is to turn to your own morality, and don't encourage the search for illegal content if you feel that is best.

Canada has privacy laws as well, and I have run into the a couple of times in the past - companies asking me for information that I cannot legally provide without violating the privacy rights of others involved.

However, 2257 is the standard we all seem to live with. If any part of your business touches the US, you need to be compliant. As a reseller, you have to accept the statements of the program as true, they enter into an agreement with you as a reseller based on their statements. If a site says "all models are compliant with 2257, here is the records location, and you can check them at any time", well, they have made a claim as part of their reseller program. You are operating in good faith.

However, if you go to the site in question and the models look specifically underage (I don't mean 17, but maybe 10 or 12) all the nice claims are nothing. That is to your own good judgement.

I should point out that a number of sites i have seen use very specific wording that does in fact suggest that some of the models are underage. If it looks like KP, if it smells like KP, then leave the room.

Alex

I haven't read much on 2257 recently, but I thought it only applied to US webmasters. I host with a variety of US hosting companies, and I don't have 2257 notices on many sites. I appreciate that if I wish to submit to US lists that I may have to supply such notices, but that not a legal requirement for me, it's a requirement of the list owner.

I am bound by the laws of England, so there is no question of illegal content on any of my sites. I'd be grateful if anyone with more recent info. could tell me if I've misunderstood the situation.

well dude think twice maybe before you grab someones business name that they have worked hard to create and start dragging it thru the mud.


the idea of the thread is a good one however as underage models is a serious concern and EVERYONE needs to be on the lookout

Head Boy,

If you are hosted in the US, 2257 still apply to you.

I agree with that, but penalising and placing excessive burdens on honest webmasters is not the way to go. Forcing a large part of the adult business out of American control will only increase the problem.

define these excessive burdens for us

Well it's maybe a month or more since I read up on this, which was why I asked if there had been any updates. Just consolidating all the info from sponsors onto a page for a site takes quite a bit of work, when you have to chase them for banner image stuff as well as checking on the pics details.

I've copped out and just put links to the sponsors 2257 page when there is one available, but that seems to defeat the purpose of 2257 and means I'm not really compliant I suspect.

Then of course there's the issue of pre-2257 content on my sites.

lol

First: I would think that if you're using content provided by a sponsor with a corresponding 2257 statement, then you should be legally in the clear for using this in 'good faith'.


Second: don't forget about ethnic and cultural differences! In our western society kids are usually well fed from their day of their conception, girls start using cosmetics by the age of 12,13 (or sometimes earlier), they start smoking (at least pot) and drinking some alcohol relatively early, etc. All contributing to faster aging.

Then don't forget about all these growth hormones and stuff people take in with their daily food (meat, poultry, etc.) and the effects it's having. It's been scientifically proven many times, that in the 50s on average girls had their first period with 15 or 16, now it's pretty normal they they start menstruating with 13 or 14 (many at age of 12).

Now many of these Russian (and easter european in general) teens are really skinny, which in their case is most likely a sign of a long life of malnutrition, whereas western teens would have to keep a strict diet to look like that (not that it's realy looking good or healthy). If they'd been malnourished all their life you can expect that their developement is behind that of western girls, too!

Well I'm legally in the clear re 2257 whatever I do, and I gather it doesn't apply to hosting either, but I would like to know what the current situation is regarding 2257 for the US. It certainly makes submissions and links easier if one complies.

There is actually another interesting fact I gather. The laws of England relate to publishing, and publishing is the uploading of pages and images to a server. So if I copy from one server to another and both are outside England, then English law doesn't apply either.

CP is outside all of this and covered by some separate laws here. Just the hint of an association means the police can kick my door in and take all my kit away. But I haven't studied it in depth as I prefer MILF, hairy and fetish niches.

I believe in the US the answear is simple, make them have multiple ID's if in doubt
However I am puzzled about other countries and what a person would do about that????

Actually its not easy here in Australia. I am hosted in the US so need 2257, but by having it I am likely breaking privacy laws here.

Its a tricky one for sure, but at least Australia doesn't police the laws and they seem to be there more for show than anything else :)

if i have a question about 2257, i ussually click to the join page, and if it is a well-known reliable us based CC processor and they accept visa, i assume a team of lawyers has gone over the content with a fine tooth comb :) hope i am right :D however, if they have a more "liberal" without naming names CC processor or are proccessed overseas and dont take visa, i just walk away!

Whether a foreign content provider actually confirms to a yet to be realized 2257 is another question also.

Some european countries consider 17 to be a legal age. And if memory serves, I believe I read somewhere that Ireland has a much younger age limit. |shocking|

I don't even work the "teen" category, so, just observations from a Canuck. |peace|

Not to be confused with Kancukastan -- home to me and the Great White North! ... Art

I never promoted littleapril because when they proudly presented the first trailer on GFY in ended with IS SHE LEGAL or IS SHE OLD ENOUGH? or something like that.
I have no problem promoting teens (18+) that look like they are 18 but when the programs starts to suggest she might not be 18 I refuse to promote them.

Let us never forget what happened with mis Traci Lords in the 80's using fake id's and paperwork to start her porn carrear at the age of 16.

As said here many times by many ppl if you feel the girl looks too young then stay away ;)

-Loki-

Traci Lords is the reason 2257 is in place - it was because of her that the law went into effect.

shit I never knew that :(