Building a relationship with reviewers
 

I'm noticing more and more submitters are so busy cranking out free sites that they just seem to ignore the fact that a great many of their sites are getting tossed instantly into the trash. It seems like such a wasted effort, like going down on a dead a chick. Lick all night, but she's not going to cum. She might fart, but definately won't cum.

If you get rejection emails from link lists like mine that tell you to come HERE and inquire why you've been rejected, why not ask? Hell, why waste the effort of submitting if you don't care whether or not your sites are listed? No one is going to bite you. Might call you a rotten cocksucker, but no teeth will be bared.

Establishing contact with reviewers who reject your sites is the best thing you can do if you plan on regularly submitting free sites. For one, those of us who reject your sites may be expecting a level of quality that may be higher than other lists. If you can find out what is flawed in your sites, you will begin to build better sites that are more widely accepted. Secondly, you may be making some major mistakes and don't even realize it. Plus, when we know WHO you are, we have been known to let the minor things slide. Just show us that you care about what you do.

I know what you're saying right now. You're saying, "fuck you and fuck Earl too." Well, first of all, that hurts. Now you've gone and made Earl get all teary-eyed. You bastard.

You should think of the smaller link lists as a litmus test. If we don't accept your sites, what makes you think that the big boys and girls will let you play in their reindeer games? I know, I know, some smaller/newer lists have some pretty fucked-up rules. Don't submit to them. Okay? Generally speaking though, we all pretty much run under the same guidelines and look for the same things. So if you get a rejection notice - ask. After you ignore a few rejections, it becomes so much easier to just blacklist you. No one wants that. Well, Earl wants to blacklist you, but that's only because you hurt his feelings. You bastard.

I like getting accept/reject emails just for that reason. It helps to learn where your weaknesses are and make improvements, or at least focus on that one additional area that you may have been overlooking.

Being able to ask the reviewer of the site in a forum is helpful too, as you get to see what other people's mistakes are and learn from them as well.

Unfortunately not many places send the emails, as it seems far too many people ignore them completely... |huh

Hi UW

Very interesting your thread. |thumb

I do not know what are thinking other webmasters, but my opinion is the following:

My sites normally had been linked by 80 or 90% of the ll that I submitted that are all major ll. (I only submit to 12 or 16 ll, and I have not doorways).

THEN, I think: if these major ll had linked my site the problem is not an error in my site, the problem is that the ll that had not linked my site had a lot of sites submitted and obviously had to reject a lot of them. Because of I dont care about it.

I think that the time that I losted with that ll will no come again: only one site for day.

Also, one thing is that someone will insult you in front of all the people of the board, and another thing is that the same person will insult you in an email.

After the insult in the board, if you will defence yourself, other will insult you too in defence of who had insulted you in first time, because they are friends, may be because there is a clear syndicalized procedure of ll owners.

I only posted for sites rejected for 2 ll, and I think that it was a big bad mistake that I do not want to repeat.

|waves|

Talleyrand

accept/reject emails are one thing I really miss as most LL don't bother with them anymore, especially the reject emails. Useless it is good to know you still go to all the trouble.

WELL SAID, UW! (well, I dunno about the dead chick part - who's gonna go down on a farting dead chick? eeeewwwwww |barf|)

I stopped sending out reject e-mails for that very reason, unless it is someone I know. It seems like there's a free site factory somewhere churning out this stuff every day & no one cares if it's listed or not. Oh well, their loss. Today's little guy is tomorrow's player, just remember that :D

Ponygirl

I don't send either accepted or rejected emails. However, the link to this board is there and my appeal to anyone with questions to ask them here. |thumb

About Size
 

You never know when that little dick will grow into a big cock.

1. Be weary of blowing off the small players.
2. Be weary of the small players with weird rules because they think they already have a big cock.

Well said UW |thumb

You bastard :D

I stopped sending out rejection e-mails because of all the jerks that would just e-mail me back and argue about why I should list their crap. I added a link to this board on my submit form for questions but no one has taken me up on that. As Ponygirl said, there seems to be a free site factory with a bunch of uncaring dumb asses who could care less if their sites are listed or not. :(

Great post UW and really in 2006 if your not building a relationship with the linklists that you send your sites to you might as well just hang it up.

Sorry Im cant think of a more colorful way to describe this :)

Very well said UW |thumb

I send out reject/accept mails too...and it's amazing how few responses I get on the rejections |banghead|

Establishing communications with those listing or not listing your free sites is a great way to move ahead in this business. Not establishing that communcation is a great way to hit a dead end |crazy|

What is this "reject" thing you speak of? :D

Seriously though, when I started out, I really appreciated rejection emails...it helped me become a really good gallery submitter...so when I did make the transition to a freesite builder, it was a pretty easy transition.

Some submitters and owners don't try to nurture a healthy relationship. Submitters blindly keep submitting without correcting their errors, some owners make outlandish rules that alienate submitters, and both submitter and owner end up losing out because they didn't take the time to nurture a good relationship.

As for UW, I submit to both of his sites because he's straight forward with his rules, there's no mystery rules that only a mindreader could figure out, his rules page isn't the size of The Declaration of Independence, and if you get accepted at Filthyearl's, you're going to get accepted at all the sane LL's that are out there. His sites are a good litmus test (or was that pregnancy test, hmm), for the "bigger" sites.

Very good UW...

I know for us we send out emails. I also make sure that in the rejection email that if they feel this was in error, I encourage them to reply back with the question. Reason for this is that I know sometimes rejecting or deleting a site submission when you meant to do another can sometimes be a mistake.

One thing I got back on track with now (as of recently), is to send a quick email off to the submitter that if there is something wrong and its something that can be fixed, I will provide a solution. Once done I get them to reply back and then we do a 2nd review.

I think it is important to let the submitter know whether or not they got accepted. I know if I was one, I would want to know if I got in or not so I can move on without going days, weeks, or months wondering "did I" or "didn't I not get accepted" ....if I had recip banners in my sites and didn't know if i was accepted or not, I would be pissed knowing I have been sending traffic to them. At least an email notification by a LL or directory would allow me to know which recip to remove off that site.

I do know though that its all a two way relationship to make it all work. LL's would not be in business if it wasn't for submitters; likewise, submitters would not be doing too well either without them. It really is a business and it is an ongoing learning experience for "everyone" regardless how experienced someone is.

Anyways....its mocha time for me :)

Again I ask: "what happened to common sense?" Why is it so hard to determine who is sending you traffic and who isn't? If a particular LL isn't and everyone else is then go reread his rules. There may be something about your sponsor or their type of link banned. Or if only one or two smaller LL's are picking your sites up then consider going to work flipping burgers.

I don't mind helping someone who is willing to try. I am not your mother here to hold your hand on every submission.

I used to send rejection emails to everyone, and after spending way too much time sending emails back and forth (even though I state the 2 boards I post regularly at) saying the same thing over and over to different people, now send rejection mails only to submitters I know.

Getting your name 'out there' as a submitter is a good thing - I know I'm not alone in my practice so you get an email where sometimes you wouldn't, As UW says I'll let minor things slide if I know the submitter (ie I won't reject, but I'll let them know in an email), and you get the opportunity of invites should an occasion ever arise.

Hi NetGoonie

Excellent post!
You performed your job with professional skill! |thumb

Sadly, some people have not the necessary common sense for to work so hard like you.

|waves|

Talleyrand

Not sure what I did exactly but thanks Tallyrand for the comment :) ...by the way, do you have any sites listed with us?

Ok that's it - this thread made up my mind! I'm only gonna wrte a rejection reason to the submitters I know and care about from now on - I was getting tired of writing the same rejections over and over with people not taking notice at all - thanks UW, you made the final push ;)

It's no trouble at all. I have three options when reviewing: accept, reject silently, reject and notify. I hardly ever reject silently. That's for special situations.;) I sometimes write a little note during rejection, but many times the problem can't be summed up in just a few words, so I leave the comment area blank. But, my rejection emails do give the recipient a link to the specific thread where they can post inquiries. On the board, I respond pleasantly and honestly and so does the submitter. We can all get nasty behind closed doors. Hence, no replies to emails.

I have no qualms with lists that choose not let you know if you have been listed, but I know that it's a big pain in the ass to go searching to see if your sites are listed. I can't say much about other site's policies without stepping on anyone's fat little piggies, so I'll shut up about that.:D

I feel that bears repeating.

But again, 90%+ submitters to my site set my notification's to off, so either they can't figure out to click the button that says set it to on or they don't care to hear why the sites been rejected.

And as a couple of builder's out there know, if they build good honest free sites and make a mistake, most of the time I'll email them to ask them to change the bad link or whatnot and leave it in pending rather then reject it outright.

Ditto

Ponygirl recently sent me rejection on one of my sites because I screwed up. She was correct of course and I noted my error as not to make it again.

However I was unsure as to email her back because I know most LL folks get enough email as it is.

So I guess my question is if it’s proper submitter etiquette to send a return email acknowledging the error?

If yes. Please accept my apology for not responding Ponygirl.

PS. I know how hard folks work to set up and maintain a level of integrity for there LL’s, so I can assure that my aim is to reach that level. But as a “noob” sometimes I miss.

PSS. Oh yeah! I think I’m also supposed to say “ Nice thread you bastard” :D

too late, I already banned and blacklisted your ass :D j/k

If I know a name from the boards then I will take the time to send out an email - I don't expect a reply, but when I get another sub from you I know that you got it & it's cool :)

Good submitters are hard to come by so when you get them, you tend to try & keep them.

Ponygirl

Thanks Ponygirl. I can assure you that when any LL reviewer sends me a rejection I take note of my mistake. Should I have a question they will always receive a professional response from me.

This may not be my primary business yet (I hope I hope I hope) but I treat it as such, so when someone takes the time to point out an error I consider that a learning experience.

PS. For just a half second, ya had me going . . . oh shit! :D

Damn, first both GG&J were acting sorta "sweet" on the boards around the Holidays, and now Useless sounds reasonable. Damn what's happening here? ;)

No worries Meat...just relax and go to sleep...that's it...nice and relaxed...don't even give that pod behind your chair a second thought :D

Yes, everything is just fine. Have some more Kool-Aid :D

I think there is a "nice peoples syndicate" jumping in and being all warm and fuzzy to people.

Yeah you are right. Somebody emailed me when I first re-entered adult a few months ago offering me a PC based program where you throw pictures, text, links, a recip table and sponsor code into a set of niched directories and out pops as many different (randomised!~) free sites as you like plus a tgp linking to all of em as well. My guess was that the output would be 100% crap so I never sent him his 49.99.

Very nice post. The sad thing is that a lot of people do not even bother to read the rejection notice which I do not understand.

What you say about rejection notices and having help is very much true from what I see here. Most of the LL owners have gone out of their way to help people. Some have even started entire forums for that. ;) It really is a valuable resource to have. These days it is rare to even have sponsors this accessable.

A naked Brooke Adams :)
Damn she was yummy in her day|headbang|

Sunshine and Haze were my favs, tho the electri kool ade did do the trick too |egg|

Neither Jays or Marks sends out rejections - Unless I know you... hint, post here.
If I see your name in posts, newbie or not, I'll send an email.
A couple of you in this thread got them today :)

I think the pros and cons have already been covered. But time management is really key.

20 submits to the same category day after day doesn't work.
If you're going to become a webmaster, become a webmaster! notice the "Master" part.
Move outside your boundaries, (or the first sponsor you hooked up with that has free content).
This is a business, enough said.

Buy some content, get a good host, and things will improve for you dramatically!!!
(Ie, same sponsor being promoted - but Without sponsor content - Who gets listed first?)
Submitters have to remember that not only do we run LL's, but many also run tgps, or other stuff. Nearly all of us make our own free sites and pages and most of the time we use the sponsor content there. So by the time you submit, we already have it posted.

On average I only get 3-5 emails per week on why they weren't listed, and I answer them all. Like UW said, get to know the reviewer.
I'd said for the most part we're gatekeepers, but it's not like we don't have a clue.

Nice post UW!

I am accessible, just ask :) (ok, ask nicely)

Excellent addition, Mark. Very well said. |thumb

Great post UW, and another great thread. It's encouraging to see professionalism shining through.
Looking forward to starting my freesite submittals very soon and seeing if I've absorbed and implemented all of the advice I've received on GG&J.
|thumb

Yup, unlike a few other threads recently...THIS thread is what makes GG&J the definitive resource site for link lists/free sites |thumb

Knowing who you're working with on the other side of the keyboard is a huge benefit to us all. Just this morning, I got a pm from one of my submitters telling me my site was down. I already knew it was down as we're upgrading the script, but found it very cool to get a message from a submitter to let me know :)

Meat...yes indeed she was!

As a newbie of 3 to 4 months and with all this info about reviewing sites and checking them for compliance with rules.
Does anyone have an idea why I was blacklisted after 2 months of being listed (I unwittingly had a counter, since removed) a rejection email in the first instance would have set me straight from day 1.

From one of the two threads you started about being blacklisted.

http://greenguysboard.com/board/show...43&postcount=2

http://greenguysboard.com/board/show...43&postcount=7

I will honestly say out of all the LL I submit to I love your account section the best. It provides me with more then enough info about my submitted sites and their status. Just a sweet script you have there.
Now for me when I get a rejection (not many but there are a few) I have to be worried about asking why on this board. Here's my take on it. I submit a site to 20 LL, I get listed on a few with in the first day or so. Next day I get a rejection. I don't think it's wise for me to advertise that someone rejected me before I get all my mails back or at least run through my checks to see out of the 20 which ones have listed me. I do not want to give any other LL owner ideas from someone else. I mean if someone comes here and asks GG why they did not get listed an he puts up his answer. How many LL owners go back and check their site for that persons submit and how many don't take the next submit from that person or look way to hard at the page before approving? Just my toughts, 1 or 2 rejections is worth forgetting about. I email back the WM and ask what the issue is and then go an fix it. But honestly I dont think it's to smart to advertise you are not getting listed for a few sites. Now if you are constantly being rejected by everyone then you need to post and find out what you are doing wrong.

I think you're being a bit paranoid here Jugg ;)

Using GG as an example, he lists some sites that I don't, I list some sites that he doesn't. We've got different rules and standards on some things...so although it's entirely possible (and common) for submitters to build free sites that pretty much everyone will list, there are exceptions to that too. For example, GG won't list anything with vid caps. I will list sites with HIGH QUALITY vid caps, but they've got to be good enough to be above my personal standards :)

Personally, I rarely read the "why wasn't this listed" threads except for my own, and I know quite a few others do the same thing. I trust in my own judgement while reviewing, so I don't second guess myself just because someone else declines a site :)