Question for other link list owners
 

Originally I was going to write a long diatribe about this, but here's the question.
Why don't some of you accept AVS sites?
If you have reasons that are up-to-date I'd like to hear them, not stuff like, "Well, one AVS screwed me this way", or "I heard they were dying", but reasons why you don't accept them today.
I'd like to hear for purely selfish reasons since I still make a large chunk of my income from them and I'd like to submit to more LL's.
And if anyone is interested I can go into the how and why I make money with them, but I'd like to hear some opinions first.

Because I haven't configured my script to handle another type of content and I'm afraid I don't know what kind of rules or guidelines I should post about an AVS site, seeing as I've never actually built one. |sad|

That being said, if someone dropped an AVS site into my submit form I'd probably be rather curious, and if I like what I see I'd try to accomodate in some way. |thumb

My list is still young enough to grow in a number of directions. ;)

I used to make ALL of my income from AVS sites back in the day so I have nothing against them. That being said, I also don't know how to make my ll scripts handle AVS submissions and if I opened up submits to AVS sites, would I really get enough to put on each category page?

SheepGuy, where would you put AVS sites in a link list? In with the free site listings or ???? Any suggestions? I'm asking because I've actually been thinking about this lately.

Most (if not all) of the AVS programs out there changed their setup/rules, which automatically made the sites promoting them out-of-compliance with my LL rules.

That would apply to my LL as well GG - as soon as they started putting the FPA in between the linked page and the content the sites came off my LL - in addition to the BS they were pulling with trying to find the linked site among all the other links out on the page which also was against the 3 links out rule

I'm with lady designer, I started in this biz with a link links then some one told me about AVS sites, thats all I did for quite a while. Was nice while it lasted. I have no problems with avs sites.

ronnie

The FPA is optional on the wm's part with ProAdult and CyberAge, Netverifier doesn't use them, so you could just have a rule of "No FPA before content"
As far as extra links out, that is up to the webmaster as well, I don't list sites with more than 3 links out and wouldn't expect anyone else to. There are crap AVS site designers the same as there are crap free site designers.
On my sites I almost always use two or three intro pages with a few pics and maybe one link out between all of them. Clean design sells the AVS membership.

Do any of them still pop the new window? Move the content to their domains?

I haven't thought about AVS in a LONG time & I really doubt that I'd go back to listing them anyway :(

Sheepguy - when I pulled all the AVS sites Cyberage was the reason - the WM really didnt control that FPA and stuff was constantly popped, and the entrance page definitely had way more than 3 links out - Im not talking on the feeder site- this was when you clicked the link to go to the actual avs site you had to hunt for the smallest link on the page and try to find the site the feeder was sending to - Ill go take a look at my old ones to see if they still do that

I put them in with free sites, some put them in with free sites and put an (avs) at the end of the description. That would likely be best if you're just starting to add them, so you don't have to worry about not having enough for each category.

If they use pop ups it's the wm's option, I don't use them, as far as moving the content to their domains I've never seen that. Most of them have freehosts, but I don't use them anymore.

Actually Linkster, have a look at this one
http://www.findavagina.com/seduction/
I just put it up a couple of days ago and it shouldn't have an FPA, hate to admit it, but I don't have a password to check.

SheepGuy - I just went and checked a few of mine - the page Im talking about is the "middle page participation" - when that is turned OFF you still get a FPA page with a bunch of ads for live girls (I think I counted 20 of them) and a link to the site that you list - then when you click on the avs site link it pops in a new window and leaves that live girls page open
When you do it with the middle page ON - then it does the live girls page FPA twice

Just too many things that are out of your control.
I rate AVS about the same as free hosts.

Not saying they don't/can't/may make money, just that I won't list them.

I remember what it was - they'd pop that FPA in a new window & the page was hosted on their domain, which instantly broke 3 rules at once (FPA's, new windows, everything on same domain)

One dumb move & they get the trifecta :D

Sheepguy - yes yours does have the FPA - heres what it looks like:
When you first enter your password
Then
It pops the site in a new window and leaves the FPA there:
Seen Here

Thanks for that Linkster, looks like I won't be putting up any more CyberAge sites. I have a password for Netverifier and they don't have a pop up or an FPA so I'll be putting my new stuff there.

I'm going to sound retarded now, but we all know that that doesn't bother me. :D

I was born after most link lists had canned their AVS listings, but have seen the old AVS rules on a few submission pages. I never quite understood why the reviewer would require a user/pass for an AVS site. Wouldn't that be akin to asking for a password to a paysite being promoted by a free site? Also, would AVS sites perform better (sales wise) if there were some clickable samples on them?

I know there a few people who submit free sites which promote their own mega-AVS sites since it's difficult to get the AVS site itself listed anywhere. Does this approach seem to work well (if anyone is willing to fess up)?

One more question to those of you who build AVS sites. Do you make more money selling the AVS itself or through upsells to a premium AVS membership - or even a standard sponsor being promoted on the site? I'd fully understand if you didnt want to answer my $$$ questions. ;)

It's not that difficult to get an AVS site listed, there is a list of LL's that take them in my sig and I submit to most of them. I don't use clickable samples, though I suppose I could, I just use 3 or 5 roughly half sized pics on the outside to tease surfers with an idea of what's inside. I also give a good description of the kind of content they'll get from the AVS itself.
For the $$$ questions I usually make more from the AVS on premium sites which are recurring, and more from sponsors on the smaller sites which aren't recurring.
Like any biz it has its quirks, but since so many good wm's were burned in the past by Adultcheck a lot have left the AVS end of the biz and it is no longer saturated.
There is good money there, I don't even do free sites anymore.

I'll drop one your way tonight Virgohippy, any questions or anything you know how to find me ;)
For rules and guidelines it's pretty similar to freesites as far as outgoing links per page, pop ups and the general attractiveness of the site. I don't get a lot of AVS submissions, but if you have a look at AVS Lookup's rules http://www.avs-lookup.com/addsite.html it's pretty standard though mine are slacker in that I don't mind doorways and I don't mind being listed with up to 20 or so other linklists.
On the page in my sig there are links to LL's that take AVS's, and most use the same as their rules for free sites but with the addition of asking for a backdoor so they can peek inside. I've never had a problem with backdoors being leaked by LL owners.

I personally left the AVs side because the link list traffic pretty much dried up, and as mentioned saturation. Plus AC was a pretty good source. Not to mention I got tired of making them..:)

ronnie

Same here ronnie. I literally at one time had almost 700 AC Gold sites but one day the link list traffic stopped coming my way and AC closed up shop leaving a lot of us burnt and broke. I wouldn't mind listing avs sites on my LL but there just seems to be too many variables these days. I don't have any passes to check like Linkster did for the fpa's and popups so I just wouldn't be comfortable listing them at this time. I'll have to think on this some more...

I do well on my AVS sites, I'm one of those that builds free site feeders to my AVS sites. I also pick niches though that there isn't paysites to promote. It works to upsell to an AVS site, just like it does to a paysite, but my conversions are better. :D

I use NetVerifier too, I just looked, it does have a middle page ad though. :( but it has a big arrow pointing to the name of my site at the top, and only three pics below that for adult friend finder. I turn off the trials (so no popup if they don't sign up) and I submit to a few link lists. But mainly I promote them with free sites.

Sheepguy, all the LL in my sig take avs sites. |thumb

Great!
I'll start submitting some, feel free to submit to my list as well ;)
I've added your sites to my submit page in my sig. Don't need a link back on them, it's more of a service for those looking to submit AVS sites.
I'm sending you a PM shortly.

What most LL owners used to do was ask for either a backdoor url (a link straight to the page the surfer landed on once he put in his user/pass) or a user/pass login in the comments section of the submission form. So you don't need your own pass, just use the one the wm gives you.

As for the avs popping up a full-page ad between the login and the site, I don't see why that should matter to a LL owner.
- If the surfer already has a pass for that avs, then he's already used to hopping past that page. Also, once he logs in with his username and password, he's in the avs system, not your system. Do you also not allow sponsors who pop something like an "updates of the day" window once the surfer has signed in with his username and pass? Same thing.
- If the surfer does *not* have a pass for that avs, then he'll click through to the signup form and go through that process. So again, he's in the avs system, not your system. Same thing as any sponsor tour with a signup form. Once the surfer has gone to the sponsor and put in their CC details, it's no longer your concern what the sponsor shows them...

I do remember at least one AVS program where the un/pw that the webmaster had for accessing sites in the system was also their affiliate un/pw, so they obviously could not give that info out to the LL owner.

Sheepguy - I'm working on a little morphed link list project which would list AVS sites and I've got a few questions, if you don't mind. What should a reviewer look for on an AVS site? Are there AVS systems which you think should be avoided/banned? What's the primary reason AVS sites get rejected at link lists which do list AVS sites?

Thanks- UW

Hey SheepGuy. |waves|

As you already know, I will take AVS sites on my LL as long as I know the person from this board and have trust in them. I don't really know enough about AVS to know all the tricks involved, but I do know the traffic has been proven to be card carriers?

By the way, I'm still looking for that article you mentioned posting here on AVS. When and if you do post that article, lemme know. |headbang|

If anyone else with some expertise in the AVS arena can give me some input, feel free. I didn't mean to make it sound as if I'm ONLY looking for Sheepguy's advice.

The usual free site rules work well, 3 outgoing links per page, no blind links, pop-ups, that sort of stuff. Don't look for a standard frormat though, some sites just have 1 frontpage with the signup script at the bottom, some have up to 10 or more pages before the script. Most of mine anyways, don't have a standard type warning page, but some do. I ask for one or two pics to give the surfer an idea of what's inside before the signup script, but I make exceptions depending on the site.
For the content pages you might want to make a rule requiring at least 50 pics or so many minutes of video, stories or such. I don't have that rule but most AVS sites need at least 50 pics to get by the AVS reviewer anyways.

For reasons sites get turned down it's pretty much the same as with freesites as well. Generally if the AVS reviewer has passed it there are no problems, though some allow a lot more exit links than freesites do, or allow blind links that are sort of iffy. A lot of people use iframes for cam sites inside and outside of the protected areas, some free site LL's might not be cool with that but I am because I use them ;) I've never been turned down for using them by any of the LL's I submit to, which is only about 40 or so.

The only AVS I won't list is AdultCheck, but that's just because they fucked everyone over a few years back and I refuse to do them any favours. There are AVS's I don't deal with, but that's just because they don't sell well for me or I haven't tried them yet. There are also a few gay AVS's and I have no experience with them. Adultcheck is the only one I'd ban, but you don't see them around much anyways because most LL's have banned them.

All of the traffic inside the protected areas is card carrying, some of the traffic outside comes from LL's and SE's which is why the advertising converts better on the inside, though it gets less hits.
I'll likely write that article tonight since a couple of folks on this board have asked me to.
I won't mention all of the tricks, but most of them ;)