search engine domination
 

Google (Live, Yahoo and others) could very easily forge direct relationships with porn producers/distributors and totally eliminate the linklist/tgp/directory model (they may already be preparing to do so).

The advantages to the producing businesses are obvious. Most obviously, Google (or whoever) could guarantee a precisely measured flow of highly convertible traffic to the producer's sites. Measure this against the effectiveness of the hit-or-miss affiliate model.

I suspect that Google (and the other big SEs), merely tolerate the presence of Link-o-rama, DD, Tommy or whoever. When the time is ripe they will drop all porn-promoting sites at a stroke. After a week or two nobody will notice that they've gone.

Discuss.

PS - since linklists/tgps/direcories have a purely commercial objective there's no logical reason for a commercial search engine (Google etc) to give them any credence - let alone prominence.

I am not following your logic. Google does not need to cut out the webmaster, it would be suicidal IMO. I am of the belief that the search engines need us just like we need them.

They could also just buy a popular adult portal and then feed it with lots of traffic or they could run their own adwords ads to adult sponsors... Then they don't kill off all the webmasters and their own company at the same time.

I suspect you are mistaken on this one. :D

You won't find many websites that are purely non-commercial. Even mainstream information based sites are running ads of some sort whether it be affiliate products or contextual ads. The search engines are not against us making money, unless you know something I do not?

I'm not going to pick holes in your comments - though there are plenty.

Nor am I interested in scoring points.

I sincerely believe the writing's on the wall.

In another thread Jay was asking about web 2.

In my opinion - forget it.

Sooner or later a porn-specific SE will emerge (thank all the gods) - and it WILL have some clout. Until then - we're all slaves to Google et al.

People use Google, Yahoo and other search engines because they provide answers to questions. If I'm looking for porn and Google sends me to Link-O-Rama then I'm happy and I keep using Google. If they send me to Vivid and I can't see anything without paying then I stop using Google.

Sure, if Google stopped providing quality answers to questions being asked then they would till have enough traffic to keep going for years and maybe even decades but people would go else where fast and revenue streams would eventually dry up.

i dont think anybody can controle the big ses , yeah for some time till the big ses find out to kick your butt, i know alot of seos and blackhats, the strange is, all thought they had controle the big ses but then they all focus on google, till what, 2 ,3 months ago, again all got hit, also the seo guys, sure they still make huge money but they still got hit, my point, there is no fucking way to controle the ses ( oke unless you are the owner of the bmw site, got banned for cheating and get back in google just like that........... a moneything?:D) just my thinking...aaahhh its nice to be back and just say what you want:D

Pick away, expose the holes. I am open to read your ideas and thoughts behind your logic.

Scoring points with who?

As for the writing on the wall, it has always been there. But not everyone reads it the same way.

What about web 2.0?

There are already porn specific search engines, but IMHO they will never deliver what the mainstream search engines can. Also, I don't view myself as a slave to Google or any other search engine. They are just another tool to get traffic to my site.

.02

Lowry,

I'm interested in all viewpoints.

I have no attachment to my own views.

I'm entirely open to whatever ideas people might care to express.

Thanks for your comments thus far.

but that whole argument is based on that you think sites like Tommys are dependent on Google for their traffic

and that's not true

you might think that because you see so many people crying on boards about losing their SEO spots
but those are always smaller unestablished webmasters
(I know that sounds a bit dickish)

you never see the bigger tgp owners crying about lost SEO spots

yes there are lots of times in the past 10 years that I have had great S.E. listings but there have been way more times when I haven't had any and I never noticed the difference

I almost never look at stats. the only time I know when I have a good ranking is when somebody tells me


Webmaster: Hey... how did you get that number 2 spot for keyword, wish I had that, how much traffic do you get from that

Tommy: umm......I dont know... then maybe I would say something about alt tags to try and sound like I have a clue

when your looking at sites that have 20 or 30 thousand incoming links, maybe hundreds of thousands of bookmarkers
a site thats trading 150 to 200 thousand hits a day
Google isnt so relevant


This goes back to what I have been saying for years

when I first started I didnt care about premoting sponsors.
I ONLY premoted Tommys, that was my first and only priority
but now all anyone cares about is how many sales they make today

some day soon Tommys is gonna be a search engine anyway :D

i never focused on the fact which linksite or tgp site gave me the best traffic or sales, i always focused which sites just linked me:D low traffic or big traffic, high pr or low, big in ses or low, who cares, i only cared for one thing, getting listed:) i am learning some seo and hell i am getting already tired by the facted what i have to do and watching all the stuff, the oldies, ike gg and tommies and dd , linkster and some more will be always around, even if they would go bad in ses, they have proofen their name in this bizz, all know them, they dont need a ses for that, they will be always wanted, doesnt matter if google fucks up or not, they made name and thats important

One thing is that Yahoo and Google are for the most part fearful of getting involved in adult. Look at googles adsense. Look at what Yahoo does to its Yahoo adult groups. Can you even imagine how much Yahoo could have made from its adult groups in the early part of this decade?!?

Another problem is that once they get in bed with the content producers the surfers will begin to notice this and see it as a shill. People will say "Don't use Google for adult stuff. It is all ads!" now whether this is any better than "It is all Spam!" to them, I am not so sure. But google does not wish to be seen as paid search engine like goto.com was. Sure it has sponsored results, but these are seperate from the normal rankings.

Why would a company go against their own business model? The main objective of search engines is to provide relevant results.

Why stop at porn? There are millions of "hurricane" type sites out there with the sole commercial purpose of producing traffic to promote google adsense. Most of them are now getting filtered out because of duplicate content and a lot of them are just plain irrelavant cookie cutter pieces of garbage.

End users want relevant results for their searches. Remove that from the equation and you are out of business.

Same here - for 14-16 months, I could not find myself in Google & I knew where to look.

I do love the traffic that Google (and all SE's) send my sites, but I have survived without it.

So, since you mentioned my site specifically, I'd fucking love to know what your agenda with all this is.

I'd also love to know why LowryBigwood is considered some sort of ass-kisser since he doesn't agree with you.

You should notice that as well as link-o-rama I mentioned "all porn producing sites" There's no agenda, you've not been singled out, keep applying the patches.

I've no axe to grind with anybody on this issue - lowrybigwood, yourself and tommy included.

:)

I never took any offense

I thought it was a decent topic for discussion

I am even flattered when people use my sites as points in discussion. Good or bad

Greenie, sometimes I think you need a thicker skin :-)

I don't think I need thicker skin, I'm just wondering what eman hopes to gain from this thread.

Why my name is 1 of the 3 named "all porn producing sites".

Why is Lowry being looked at as an ass kisser. (discuss, but not pick holes)

And, like Allfetish asked, why just porn.

So please eman, since you started this, enlighten everyone.

i know what i will saying is not use as any value. but i never take some one serouse when they only focus on google ses, because the ones who do then i have to hear their nagging" google hit me again, i have some traffic issue now" google yes in some way its important, but come one,only focus on google for your traffic???? thats bad, because where will you be when google drops you? and i believe the oldies dont relay on google because if they relay on the traffic from that one they would be no where, never fcus on only one ses..just get your traffic :D


For example: premium sex links, yeah that was a linksite totally focus on google, big mistake i thought that time, they got hit bad that time i believe in 2005, i said my view as a newby on that one even i was already 4 years in bizz why focus on one ses? reason, it was the biggest, well bad mistake, because that same linksite got hit 4 times after that real hard by google, well where do you end then, well with nothing, i dont think its right to focus only on google on yahoo, there are many other ways to get secure traffic with, but ofcourse i was a newbie with that one, but still i knew, so how come others dont know, i think its wrong to focus only on yahoo and google and i never believed that the oldies like gg and tommy and rr only focus on google or yahoo, because if that was the case they wouldnt be found anywhere now, i know a linksite who focus on google and where it ended now, those oldie are smarter and dont need the ses to get their traffic, they dont need those ses:) because they build their porn empire that way already years ago because they made name and got enough other sites to give them the traffic, oh damn i need english lessons, to make my story shorter and easier:D

I think he was just floating an idea he had, a sort of.... what if

and your site is mentioned because your big and popular etc etc

no big deal... trust me you need thicker skin :)

I don't think it's a "What if..."

I think it's an "I'm jealous...." |thumb


...and I know exactly what word set me off: tolerate

I'd also like to know how I'm supposed to be kissing ass? I think you if you check all my posts and comments dating back to my arrival here, I have been anything but an "ass kisser".

Also, I don't understand how eman can say he didn't single anyone out when he used 3 well respected webmasters' sites in the context of being tolerated by search engines for now. As if those webmasters sites suck or something. That's how I took it...

So eman, now you've got my curiousity...

yep, more of an asshole in many cases.|waves|

As for google tolerating Greenie, etc., I personally feel honored that Greenie and the big guys "tolerate" us little guys.
Based on your assumption, why would google bother with listings from any commercial sites...? fuck it, knock out ebay, amazon etc., then, drop any landing pages and give adwords players nowhere to link their ads, thus killing their business model. While they're at it, let's go ahead and knock off anything with adsense on it, after all that's purely commercial.

Any way it goes, your logic is totally twisted. You would be in the targetted group as well as the rest of us in that you are peddling porn or some way operating a business online to earn money. If not, then what are you even bothering to be online for, just to rattle cages and make noise?

I'm waiting for eman to say "April Fool's"|huh

That's just silly. Will they give producers higher visibility links? Maybe, but producers would have to pay out the ass for them (think 60% revshare is bad?), making the affiliate model seem brighter. And even if google decided to do what you claim they will, there would be such a backlash from users. Google has risen to the top by doing EXACTLY the opposite of that. They cater to users every whim, and that means the most exposure to content possible.

There may come a time when Google takes a larger share of clicks from us, but we will never, ever be dropped. Without 5 trillion sites to crawl, they're just another shitty portal. And they know it.

What I should have said, quite simply, is that Google can manipulate the serps as they please while still raking in the adwords revenue. They don't need to provide a free service to porn sites (porn is a special case). There's nothing to stop them from side-lining porn into a separate engine consisting entirely of paid listings (at something like $25 a site it would be a nice little earner). IMHO Google will eventually go down that route, and where Google goes, others will follow (any move towards protecting surfers from unwitting exposure to porn would win them a lot of kudos in high places). They can pretty well do what they like. And they will.

In using the word "tolerate" I intended to convey the meaning "Allow the presence of or allow (an activity) without opposing or prohibiting.". My apologies to those who took it to mean "Put up with something or somebody unpleasant".

And no, I'm not jealous of GG - In fact, I'm much better looking than he is :)

Oooo...even better, they could setup a separate search engine and charge the surfer $25/month for access. :)

To me it seems that Google does need to include adult sites in their free listings because with certain terms, only porn sites are relevent.

But, even if they did start charging, with so many people searching for adult sites, a $25 fee to be included in a separate paid Google search engine would be the best $25 a webmaster would ever pay.

Absolutely. |jackinthe

But, wouldn't that quickly become saturated and then what? How many adult webmasters would quickly be buying up 25 dollar ads for the best terms. Eventually I believe the paid results wouldn't be as relevant as the free results could be, thus losing it's luster.

If everyone paid the same amount, how would they rank the ads? By submission date? How long does your ad get shown?

Just my opinion of course. :D

I'm not so sure Google wants to be in "adult" though.

.02

I paid Yahoo $600 back in the day |thumb

I dont think you have a clue as to how much affiliates spend on google adwords.

Eman, you're just pissed becaused you lost your ranking for "xxx trailer."

For whatever term people is searching for, Google wants to generate useful results. That keeps people coming back to Google, instead of heading off to Yahoo or MSN. If people stop searching, they'll never see AdWords ads, and if no one sees them, no clicks = no revenue.

Some spammers think worse organic results will force people to click more often on AdWord ads (since that's how MFA sites work). The difference is that Google is much less interested in ad revenue than a spammer. Google's main goal isn't to make money (they already got more money than they know what to do with).


Some rock bands play gigs so one day they'll be millionares. Some rockers just want to pay their bills. Some rock bands don't give a shit about money, but they make millions anyway because people dig their music.

If your life depends on Google traffic, that's a sign you need to revamp your site and your marketing strategy. Google is just a middle man that helps people find what they're looking for. If you have a strong brand and people know your site, you don't need Google. Do I use Google to find Wikipedia, Ebay, Digg, newegg? No I got those sites bookmarked in my browser.

A little time out to review Google's Philosophy and rethink your business model:


Great just isn't good enough. Always deliver more than expected. Google does not accept being the best as an endpoint, but a starting point.

You can be serious without a suit.

You can make money without doing evil.

Focus on the user and all else will follow. From its inception, Google has focused on providing the best user experience possible. While many companies claim to put their customers first, few are able to resist the temptation to make small sacrifices to increase shareholder value. Google has steadfastly refused to make any change that does not offer a benefit to the users who come to the site

Never settle for the best

"The perfect search engine," says Google co-founder Larry Page, "would understand exactly what you mean and give back exactly what you want." Given the state of search technology today, that's a far-reaching vision requiring research, development and innovation to realize. Google is committed to blazing that trail. Though acknowledged as the world's leading search technology company, Google's goal is to provide a much higher level of service to all those who seek information, whether they're at a desk in Boston, driving through Bonn, or strolling in Bangkok.

To that end, Google has persistently pursued innovation and pushed the limits of existing technology to provide a fast, accurate and easy-to-use search service that can be accessed from anywhere. To fully understand Google, it's helpful to understand all the ways in which the company has helped to redefine how individuals, businesses and technologists view the Internet.

I think Halfdeck summed this entire thread up with his 1st 12 words.

way to go the halfdeck rat:D and goddamn i wish i could speak proper english then i could realy talk along with this thread...time i realy should take some lessons

this was a nice thread to read. thank you!
most people are looking for free stuff on google most of the time, the free stuff that the poor gallery submiter provides day by day.
i dont think google or other SE will do that.

I am just curious. Did "xxx trailers" bring in a lot of traffic? It just seems that not a large percentage of surfers would search for that.

Free Porn Post closes it's doors, the La group is trying radical experiments to recover google traffic, small link lists are dying right and left.

And you guys are claiming eman is bitching because of xxx trailers.

That's just fuckin bullshit.

eman may be just a small amount of alarmist by suggesting that google could dump all linklists (like yahoo did when it started it's database a few years back - oh wait, so it's happened before...), but the overall pattern is clear as day.

and more important the quality of that traffic from that term|shocking|

you can't cash hits only checks.....

I don't recall seeing eman say anything about "xxx trailers". |huh
Well, what's the quality of any search term? And how would that term be of any lower value than any other term these monkeys struggle for?

Though I don't necessarily agree with eman's theory (knock on wood), it was momentarily an interesting debate to read.

In the other thread in the se forum. |waves|

Bill, Google is not killing off the small linklists. If you think they are responsible for that, maybe you should explain how.

On the term "xxx trailers", I have never owned the #1 spot but from my experience so far I doubt the term has much juice. But, sometimes I am wrong. :D

It only accounted for about 5% of my SE traffic and I've no idea how well it converted.

UW - "xxx trailers" is the subject of another thread.

LOR is still listed in the exact same place it's always been on Yahoo & the traffic dropped off as soon as the spammed up the index page. There's not a lot of people actually "searching" on Yahoo anymore - they click on this & that on the index, but few actually search.

At least Google asks you if you want to clutter up their index page :)

i'm the king of trailers now :D
see 'free sex trailers' 'sex trailers' 'porn trailers' :P

LOR is one of the well known exceptions. You may recall when Jay posted here congratulating you on that fact.

I'm not tracking LL positions on yahoo now, so I have no idea if they have discontinued the policy, but when it started, some yahoo wonk stated that yahoo preferred to link directly to content rather than linking to other directories that then linked to content.

The point of the yahoo example is that SE's have decided in the past to remove whole classes of websites, so, it's not impossible that it could happen again.

I think eman didn't formulate his initial presentation as well as he could have - as he presented it, there's only one logical answer - yeah, if linklists are removed from google, it would suck, and everyone would have to move to a different model, but there ain't squat we can do about it to stop it.