Email from Topbucks
 

Just got this in my email:

I presume quite a few of you did too. Pretty disconcerting.

First off, it seems I'm being forced to comply with this "adult labeling rule" which, i'm not so sure about.

in Part VI, B, 3 (page 16), it says that topbucks has to send a list of everyone that aggrees with this to the FCC. Umm....

It looks like you ONLY have to agree if you're marketing via email, but I think most webmasters wont even catch this. I only caught this because a fellow webmaster pointed it out via icq.

Just think, after all this is over the FCC will have a list of pornographers names, addresses, numbers, etc. That CANNOT be good.

So what do you guys think?

Got one too, I'm ignoring it, and certainly not worried about it.

They should concentrate on their conversion ratios which suck!

It sucks but like I told Greenie, if I have to be on a list, I would like to be on a list that says, "I'm legal". :)

In these trying times, who knows what other lists we may all be on already?

Hey - as long as you dont mind the Feds having all your banking info as well as all of your pers info in the same database - shouldnt be a big deal |jester| Especially since those databases are so secure |thumb

I don't make any money with them anymore since I sold my link list and I'm thankful I don't. There's no way I'd be agreeing to that so they could send my name and address and who knows what else to the government.

If they are only looking for the email promoters fine. But who's to say they won't send everyone's info. I don't like it.

isnt that the fuckin truth, I'd post my ratios since jan but I won't, fuckin sad

I been waiting on one more sale to pull all there links, but after this, fuck it

I wonder if this "Adult Labeling Rule" is something like the RTA Label or if it just applies to emails (where the subject starts with "SEXUALLY EXPLICIT MATERIAL" or whatever the rule that no one uses is)

I'm also confused as to - if this only applies to people that market via email - why everyone has to "sign" it. I've never marketed via email in my life, so why sign something that does not even apply to my business?

Let me see if I can get a TB rep in here :)

Hello All,
Just to clarify, the only thing that is sent to the FTC is the Acknowledgment and your electronic signature. ONLY if Webmasters start promoting our program via mailings is when personal info will be sent to the FTC (it's against our terms so that shouldn't be occurring anyway).

I hope this clears this up, if not please let us know.

Thank you,
Jenn
Operations Supervisor
TopBucks

Probably because the injunction also makes you responsible for the actions of any "sub-affiliates"

Hello,
Please contact your TB account rep so they can look into your account.

Thank you :)

Jenn - does a person/company that has never promoted anything via email marketing have to electronically sign this? If so, why?

Also, what is this "Adult Labeling Rule" & where is it referenced in the injunction?

Thanks :)

Looks pretty much like Cyberheat doing some CYA.

The highlighted comment below from their public statement a month ago caught my eye.

Toby - they already did sell off that business - I believe the new company is called TBA or something like that

OK, I'm confused. If they don't own or promote web sites then what is TopBucks?

That's a good point Toby. If Cyberheat no longer owns Top Bucks, why do we care about this injunction?

Interestingly - thats the first question my lawyer asked as well

Care to explain how this relates to non-USA WMs that don't do email anyways.|confused|

Hello Greenie,
Yes, everyone that has a TopBucks account needs to sign this. If you don't use mass emails as a way of promotion, you have nothing to worry about - no one on the TopBucks program should be as it's against our TOS.

As the letter refers, the TopBucks affiliate program settled with the FTC over a CAN-SPAM suit that we previously had been fighting. Through fighting, we were able to negotiate many things to keep the information of TopBucks webmasters private and there are some few simple steps needed to be taken on our end which include:

1) Making sure all of our webmasters are informed of the settlement agreement and know that violations of CAN-SPAM are not tolerated.

2) Making sure we have up to date information from webmasters who participate in the program. We are only required to provide information to the government if your account violates CAN-SPAM

Again, since the TopBucks program prohibits promotion via e-mail and there should be no accounts using email as a way to promote TopBucks sites, this just leaves a very simple record keeping update.

The Adult Labeling Rule is mentioned in the first paragraph of the injunction.pdf file. CAN-SPAM and the Adult Labeling rule are both related to mass email. The short of it - the Adult Labeling Rule requires that senders use the phrase "SEXUALLY EXPLICIT: " in the subject line of sexually explicit e-mail messages and ensure that the initially viewable area of the message does not contain graphic sexual images. Here is more info on the ALR: http://www.ftc.gov/os/2004/04/040413...lfinalrule.pdf

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Bottom line is we elected the idiots that make the laws that allow a program to be held responsible for the actions of a rogue affiliate.

Top Bucks was placed in the middle of a judicial squeeze - just like every producer is on 2257 issues. How many of you are willing to throw away thousands of dollars just to prove that a particular law is unjust? Personally I appreciate Top Bucks effort to keep as much separation between the actions of an affiliate and the liability of a program. Yes, I wish they had won a clear-cut victory but that's not always possible or economically feasible.


Why did the feds pick on Top Bucks? Simple, big programs have the money to pay a fine - and they have enough affiliates to spread the fear of God throughout the adult community. If they were to attack one of my affiliates for the same thing, how much publicity do you think the feds could squeeze out of it? And they sure as hell couldn't ever get $400,000 from me.......


Now it's up to us to start calling and writing our elected officials and screaming WTF!|angry|

Just because I owned the house where the murder too place doesn't mean I had anything to do with the murder.

Place the blame where it belongs - on our elected officials and the judicial system - not the program.

I think the blame actually belongs with the spammer :)

True - and the feds should hang him - not the program.

The spammer(s) were probably not under federal jurisdiction so they go after the program.

well, i think we need to know who's the sinner...

We know that - it was an offshore outsourcing company.



|couch|

LOL

Sad to say, who would be best?

Well, I think the only really serius question here is this.

What happens to us as affiliates, if we have never marketed via email, and we don't feel inclined to sign anything that enters the federal rcord and become subject to FOIA research when we haven't done anything illegal or even borderline.

Suppose I don't want to spend time reading and signing something that has little to do with me - how is this going to fuck up my topbucks account?

I've been watching this thread to see if Topbucks is going to state what happens to affiliates that don't jump like dogs thru hoops.

And am wondering what the vague threat is all about.

Your not the only one. What does Topbucks have to say?

Hello Bill!

I do understand you and other wemasters and I agree that signing a document or an acknowledgement is a very sensitive moment. However as Jenn has already posted above, we're not hiding anything from you, the full FTC Injunction text is available for webmasters in .pdf format. And walso we posted a short summary to save your time since reading through all those pages would be a pain. And I'd like to underscore that you have nothing to worry about if you're not intended to violate CAN-SPAM act.

It has to do with you since as a TB webmaster using our services you're involved in business relations with us and it's our responsibily to notify you of any changes to our terms/policy.

By signing the document you prove that you have read and understood all the changes - per the FTC Injunction we had to ask webmasters for some extra info like date of birth, plus we had to notify webmasters that information listed on accounts of those who violate CAN-SPAM act will be forwarded to government.

Is it just me, or does Topbucks keep skirting around the main question? It's like a double talking salesman.

The main question still is,

What happens to webmastsers that do not sign it??

Hello,
Payments will be withheld until it's signed.

Thank you :)

Thank you..:)

If a webmaster does not wish to sign, will TopBucks only be withholding the commissions earned after webmasters were 'asked' to sign that document, or will TopBucks also be withholding any funds that were earned before signing it became a requirement?

Hello Simon!

If you had anything on your account that wasn't paid out before you were offered to sign the FTC Acknowledgement it will be withheld until you sign it.

Why? What is the justification for that policy?