DAYUM it's getting harder and harder to find decent linklists that actually review
 

Going over the linklists on my recip tables, fuck, it's a fucking desert out there these days, just skeletons of linklists everywhere, and corruptd linksuckers.

More and more places don't seem to review, and seem to be depending on link vampirism.

Just studied sortlinks as an example, watching them because they went wonky some weeks back, the guy reviewed for a day then it's been fallow since - apparently a pure link vampire now, an undead linklist.

Fucking vampires.

I did a series of test sites that included subs to Jays XXX Links. test lasted two plus months.

No signs of any new reviews at all on jays - for all practical purposes it's as dead as a doornail. The newest sites are all many months old as far as I can tell. The newest sites of mine there are definitely months old.

So, looks conclusive, another vampire linklist.

I've been conducting other tests.

I'd like to hear reports from others about other suspected vampire linklists. Who do you folks think are vampire linklists, undead linksuckers?

SmutLinks looks like a vampire, for example.

Looks like Yobt just transformed too, and not long ago.

Now its a psuedo tube/RR-clone-tgp thing.

If you ever subbed freesites there - your links are vampire food now.

And typically for a vampire, their submission page is exactly the same, looks like.

hard to say - they had confusing layout before - but much like other vampires if you go to the index page there doesn't seem to be any way to find the freesites. Maybe was always that way. In any case, its a suspected vampire.

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added - okay, found the link on his index to "porn links" the free site section down in the footer. fuck that shit. maybe just demote him to the recip table of "lists that generally suck so assume they don't matter".

LOL if you submitted to mine you would at least get reviewed, and most likely listed :P

I'll probably start subbing to mega porn links again, if you are reviewing.

I stopped subbing there after he stopped reviewing for 8 months or so.

I've been running a number of tests, as I mentioned.

HQ Porn Links is reviewing, and is fairly up to date.

The Porn Collection is reviewing, slowish, is about 5 weeks behind.

Private Holes hasn't reviewed since april 2 and from his list of "new" sites it feels like he's tossing a lot of sites and mostly listing his own. suspected vampire, I'd say

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I'll do some more investigating over the next few days.

So, here's the request - if you suspect a vampire linklist, name them. if you are doing tests, share the results.

If you are sure a linklist is reviewing, name them too.

And if you are a linklist owner and you want to say you are reviewing regularly and plan to stay that way, go ahead and say it.

It's all useful information in this new dark age.

You are welcome to submit to me as well. Listings happen 7 days after submission :)

I submit to about 6 linklists these days, the rest are either dead or send 3 clicks a week.

-N

I got listed on Yobt a couple weeks ago. Then I dropped it from submits as it wasn't worth the effort.

One year ago my recip groups included 100 Link Lists.

Today I submit to only 24 of those 100 sites.

Some I dropped because they didn't seem to be reviewing. Some because they changed the site format so that free sites were too hard or impossible to find. And some because they just don't seem to have enough traffic to make it worth the time to build/dupe another version of the free site and to take the time to do all of the submissions for another group of Link Lists.

I'm very interested in this thread. I'd like to get more traffic from good Link Lists, but finding good LLs who do have traffic and haven't converted their site to something other than a Link List isn't easy.

Besides dropping Yobt, XXXJay's and SmutLinks, I've also dropped these from my submit list.

Fetish District - too hard to find free sites.

Debauchery - CaptainJSparrow's site, changed site format.

HQSeek - Miguel's site, became TGP and closed free site submits.

JerkingResources - Cucumber's site, closed submits last year.

Marks-Links - this was dareutwo's site... looks like domain finally expired after site being offline awhile.

OutlawFreePorn - not sure what happened to Papa but sent some emails asking why no sites accepted for awhile and got no replies.

There are lots of other lists I've dropped over the last year. I'm not sure whether any of them went vampire or not, but if I dropped them it was because they never sent much (or any) traffic.

I believe that while overall traffic is down for pretty much every real Link List, the ones who are staying true to their roots are still providing valuable traffic to free site builders. The surfers who *like* Link Lists--and who may prefer them to tubes for some reason, or may not know about tubes--are very good candidates for conversion and for creating return visits to hubs. Not everyone wants to click through multiple pages to reach the content, so those who are willing to do that are often willing to jump through another hump or two to get what they want...including spending some money.

I'd very much like to submit to more good Link Lists, if only the people who own them would spend more time on traffic generation. Even with paring my submit list down to the top 24 Link Lists (for me), there are still some on there who send less than 10 visitors a day to my free sites. So you can imagine what the 76 Link Lists I dropped were (not) sending.

I believe that the free site and Link List model will only survive if more LL owners decide to work on growing their traffic. I know that many of the LLs on my submit list work hard to gain traffic. I just wish there were more who worked hard on that part of their business.

Okay, I've been typing too long ... your turn now.

:)

I've got sites I did in May this year listed at Private Holes. I haven't really kept up with the review time, but I get a decent amount of traffic from that list. Have you tried contacting them?

I've been meaning to go through my submit list and see which LLs are actually worth still submitting to. After reading this thread I guess today is the day to do it.

Have any suggestions?

Sadly, my linklist is one of those and yet it still sends more hits then most others do. How sad is that?

Still trying to get traffic into it because I still build/submit freesites myself and the LL does generate income.

We review usually within 24 hours of submission, but we don't send out a heck of a lot of traffic either, except hotpornforwomen.com after that, theredcherry.com is 2nd highest.

I started putting recent submits on the index page, at least so you get a few more clicks.

I started to thin out the heard also. Its a shame that a lot of LL's are just sitting there dieing on the vine.

I review. My traffic is down though. :( I'm working on a redo of nymphotic that hopefully will help things get back on track.

Well, yesterday it said april 2 as the build date at the tops of the pages for the cats I sub in. And I recognize many of the sites listed with a "new" button as sites from a certain network of subbers, and they all fit into my mental model of sites that are at least two months old or older.

It's almost always an exercise in futility, and an unpleasant low-communication experience, contacting a ll owner. I rarely do it.

An excellent report, lots of value-added, thanks.

I'd be happy to take your submits at JK's Bill, I update that more regularly than Gay Porn Linx.

Lol - I wish you'd update gaypornlinx more often and regularly. maybe I can talk you into it?

Part of my goal with this thread is to push for a new model of builder-linklist cooperation and experimentation.

That begins with defining a list of active linklists. I haven't subbed to jk's in a while, tho I forget why I experimented and then stopped.

So, i expect people will be studying jk's again.

Maybe you can. If there were more people submitting decent sites, I probably would. I can count on one hand the number of decent submitters GPL has.

I'm all for anything that increases the amount of quality submits.

Just out of curiosity.

What do expect from a Link List?

Page rank? alexa ranking?

What kind of traffic? Specific sub niches or general?

How much traffic does there need to be to make it worth it for you to submit on a regular basis?

I dont mean to to offend but...

Before I go spewing "hey submit to me man"

Well, traffic is always the most important consideration. But the simple truth is that there are only between 4-6 linklists that send so much traffic that they are important, and by traffic alone they engender loyalty.

After those top traffic lls, the factors that engender the most loyalty for me are:

1. they treat their submitters fairly, and don't bury/hide the links in an attempt to strip every last signup off the traffic before deigning to let the surfer see our sites.

I'd rather submit to a site that treats me fairly and sends 10 hits a week than to a site that treats me like I'm a sucker and sends 50. And I'd sure as fuck rather put a fair person in the same table as greeny, tommy, and penisbot.

2. they review regularly, reliably, in a reasonable time, and accept pretty much every site once they know you, and aren't assholes about little picky shit.

alexa, PR - well, one is aware of such things sure, and they might affect being willing to test a site, but they don't in themselves mean enough to obsess over.

Well, that raises a related an equally important question, which is, do we need to create new models for what constitutes a quality submit these days?

Building freesites is a cost-benefit struggle. The more work you put in, the more variations you experiment with, the more experiments you try, the greater the risk of losing money on the freesite.

So there are market forces that pressure builders to create a certain "just average and not one second better" level of site.

And nowadays return on investment for freesites is so damn low that the market forces pushing for mediocrity seem even stronger.

BUT, we don't have a shared idea of how to make freesites better in a way that also allows them to make a profit.

And frankly builders have been intimidated by prick reviewers, so theres no emotional incentive to try to build anything new and prettier and juicier.

Another problem to solve - actually they are a perfect pair of problems, builders and listers need to evolve and experiment together.

Bill, I own 3 LL myself, and review daily. If for some reason I will be away from the PC for a few days, I put a notice on the submit page, but usually catch up on all submits within a weeks time. Links are in my sig.

I also am doing the reviews for Licker4U's LL while he is in Afghanistan. I run those like I do my own sites.

Best Wet Pussy http://www.best-wet-pussy.com

Girls That Squirt http://www.girls-that-squirt.com

Hairy Pussy Links http://www.hairy-pussy-links.com

Want to hear something semi humorous? I lost almost all of the submitters at my largest link list when I stopped reviewing and re-scripted it to list their links automatically upon submission. I'm told that the 3-4 remaining semi-regular submitters don't mind the lack of competition. (I don't have any daily submitters.) There are days when the casual observer viewing the index might wonder who owns the site, Simon or Red Cherry. :)

As much as having more submitters might be beneficial from a fresh content standpoint, it's also a pain the ass, especially if one is as anal as I am, which is why I don't go whoring for more. I really like knowing that I don't have to check the site because the current few active submitters never do anything that annoys me. OK, there's one guy whose English isn't the best, so his titles sometimes make me cringe, but I can live with that.

It's actually quite difficult to design a link list that is mutually beneficial to both the owner and the submitter. On one hand, you want to get traffic to the listings so that you can please the submitter and create loyalty. One the other hand, if the surfers aren't pausing on your ads, owning the link list is a waste of time. I keep an eye on where my revenue is coming from, so I know that I earn more from banners than I do listing FHGs. I also know that I hardly ever see a sale created by the uppermost banner spot on my index, no matter which sponsor or banner I use. I'll probably end up removing it again, which will bring the listings up another 300 pixels. But then I'll feel foolish for not using that space!

A lot of link list owners need to heed Simon's advice about generating traffic. We're beyond a decade past the build it and they will come era of internet porn, yet many owners still sit around hoping for traffic to increase by pure will power. Good luck with that.

I'd be happy to see some level of evolution in the free site/link list wing of this industry, but I doubt it will occur. Though the status quo is forcing everyone out of business, the forces of change are weak.

good thread. i think i get a lot of value just by being listed on a list that has been around for awhile...high traffic or not, its a good linktrade. which is my main desire is good se ranking. i always considered the linklist traffic to be feeder traffic to get my freesite off the ground, so to speak. but maybe im wrong who knows. thats just the way i always looked at it. so good old linklist that actually gets the site updated is ok in my book, i never expect too many hits. obviously we need traffic flow for the system to work but....

as for the revolution of freesite/linklist biz model!!! i like it, whats the plan?
although, i also think that nobody works as hard at it as we used to. whenever i put a good amount of solid focus onto freesites they seem to still do very well.

-abatis

Huh. That's definitely a curious effect.

http://www.filthyearl.com/ , right? I just checked it out, got a nice look. And the submit system works well. What link list software is that?

I don't think I said anything about it, but I thought that was a real interesting experiment. Now that I look closer I think it's even more interesting.

I only submit my blogs to 3 ll's now. Rest either send nothing, or the rules don't suit me. A LL needs to build a case for why it deserves my submission, because in the long run I will probably be sending them more traffic than they send me.

No. http://www.pervespace.com/ Earl was a defunct link list that I re-opened as an automatic list instead of having it sit there doing nothing. I'm still waiting to see if the traffic will build as a non-recip list. As you'll see on both sites, I'm currently experimenting with popunders. So far, the popunders have proven to be worthless at creating sales, and I'll probably use them strictly as a means of traffic trading between my own sites after I'm thoroughly convinced of their relative worthlessness.

The script is a custom mish-mosh.

Ahhh I see.

Just tried to sign in for a subbing account at pervespace, it wasn't intuitive as to how to do that. How does one sign up?

Clicking the webmaster link takes me to a login page with no extra info.

I searched back thru your recent posts, the first I came across was the thread about filthy earl, and it had a auto-submission system, so I concluded mistakenly lol.

I saw pervespace come up in the popunder, you know, I didn't immediately recognize it as a linklist, thought it was a kind of paysite, untill I saw that scrolling list of links.

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A custom mishmosh eh? Howd you manage that?

You selling copies?

A search for linklistpro takes one to an aggregator page.

Huh, also curious.

I was watching the trend of subbing blogs to about 3 dozen lists and directories. I hadn't started to do that with my blogs, and was a bit surprized when someone in another community declined to link with me because I didn't do that, altho my blog was way older and had more posts and more real posts.

I kinda thought everyone was just subbing the hell out of blogs these days, with what I thought was a possibly dubious sense of its search engine value.

Well, I figure we start out with an increased partnership between a certain clan of builders and a group of middle-to-middle-lower level linklists.

The middle-to-middle-lower has a bit more freedom to experiment than the big linklists - wether we like it or not, we're all to some degree dependent on their (the big guys) specific positions and structures, so we A. dont want to fuck with them in a way that might cause traffic losses, and B. have to be aware that if they experiment we pretty much have to follow along, and if they don't, we also have to follow along.

So, we talk up partnership and see who salutes.

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Then I figure we have to experiment. The current "blog" stuff is an example of the type of experiment. We have to figure out some ways to mix up the linking patterns, because predictable repeated linking patterns have been a part of the downfall.

I figure we start by making and linking things that look and act differently than the "freesite".

If we can figure out how to do it in a way that doesn't suck.

I'd be happy to list your sites :)

Declined to link with you because you didn't submit your blogs to LL's or did I misunderstand you?

I am often surprised by people who don't want to link with a blog, because they get a nice juicy front page link on a TLD, and if using wordpress 90% of the SEO is already done for you.. so its a good solid site. They are the types of links i would be chasing if it were me :)

Exactly. They said I wouldn't have any traffic cuz i didn't have the same 30+ links to lists they had. And suggested I sub this 5 year old blog to have traffic worth linking too, and then they might link. Nice keyword matching in the names too. Such is life.

To be fair to them, it's not like it was a blog with big traffic. I suck at blogging.

Sounds like you had a lucky escape Bill. Pointless subbing a blog with a nice root link to a bunch of directories where you get buried on domain.com/category/page1234567.html, no matter how much the initial burst of traffic.

Complete waste of time submitting to blog directories - think about it if you eventually get a 100 posts on your blog and thats not difficult - the directories end up with a 100 backlinks and all you gets is a crappy listing and and poor traffic.

You get better traffic to a blog if you submit it to some of the bigger LL and Tommys and Shemp both accept blogs now as well.

Regarding the issue of more LL folding , Is that such a bad thing? My take is that the less LL competing for surfers will result in more traffic from the bigger LLs.

Another reason why a lot of smaller LL are closing is that the owners are just assholes - nothing pisses me off more than getting a rejection e-mail from a minnow because my recip is for the wrong category. This instantly gets that LL assigned to the shitlist for 2 reasons ,

a) - because the wm is an asshole for being so picky
b) - because the wm is dumb fucktard , if you really believe that category recip linking is still beneficial to your LL , then you just don't have a clue about SEO in 2010 and its doubtful that you can send any traffic.

So I think its a good thing that some of the smaller LL are being removed from the scene. I checked my stats to one of my sponsors and noticed that hits from LL are more than hits from TGPs - and I don't submit as regularly as I should. Based on those numbers I still think its worth it to submit to LL.

On the topic of LL's and lols. I got a rejection email the other day of a Free Site I submitted back in 2008, nice of him to let me know. :)

-N