Do TGP owners care about sponsor banner rotating?
 

I'm about to get back into some serious TGP gallery building and submissions.

The guy doing it for me is concerned that since we'll be using a rotating script for the sponsor banners (the recip links are static, just the sponsor banner and possibly the sponsor text links) that some of the larger TGP owners might not like it.

Picky as hell as they tend to be, I've not heard of anyone (yet) banning this as well. That said, I've seen some insane rules over the years.

Opinions? Or heard of any such rules? Thanks!

I don't know of anyone that declines or bans you for using a rotator for sponsor ads - hell, I actually encourage it :D

Any halfway decent tgp script will spot the change and (depending on the owner) ban you or simply remove the listing...

Thanks, Greenie! I think being able to see what sponsor and/or banner does best in a niche and tracking CTRs and figuring out what gives you the best money is the only way to go!

Wazza, please explain why a TGP would care about sponsor link changes? We're not talking about cheating them with recip link changes nor removing the listing (if you fully read my post.)

Btw, already did a test with Brownie and others. They don't care. Well written program(s). Yes, if the recip was done via SSI or changed, the script(s) would reject it. It doesn't care if other links change. Which is IMHO as it should be.

I think there are heaps of TGP's that'll remove and blacklist you for changing the page size after you've been listed...

The way around this would be to make sure all your ads have the same amount of characters, with comments tags.

A lot of TGP's only allow static pages and no javascript too...

A couple of reasons - cheaters are becoming more advanced and tgp owners are on a hair trigger. Also if you're rotating your banners how do I know that 1 out 100 in your rotation isn't "fam*ly frolics" or "f*rced fantasies" (or a sponsor which I've banned for my own reasons)? I'm not gonna sit there refreshing your gallery all day just to be sure... I'm gonna reject it and move on...

Did you check this with your own version of brownie? Surely its config can allow owners to kill off listings that change after listing?

I tend to agree with Wazza. I can understand and don't mind one change of sponsor, hell if isn't making money try something else, but more than that try a new gallery. |rasta|

As long as the content is owned by yourself or the company you're promoting it should be ok.

But like it's been said: Beware of the scripts removing/blacklisting you!

I like to see the what is going to be posted.
dont like those rotating banners, you never know what will show up on there :(

Alright, gents, I wanted feedback and I got it. Sadly, it's the kind I expected to hear. So now, another point of view. I heard you, I hope you listen and consider what I'm saying as well.

If someone is going to do something nasty, they're pretty much going to make it look all innocent to start out with right? I mean they can put an Asian banner up, get listed and change it to CP or beastiality banner easily afterwards. What's it take, 30 seconds?

Whereas someone with a rotating sponsor banner is pretty much upfront letting you know it's what it is. Make sense? Sway you at all? More importantly would you still turn that down?

Way I see it, it's 2003, people. We have technology here like advanced banner tracking (and again, nothing brand new there) and things that can make webmasters eek out better ROI, better sales, see what sponsor works better, see what banner from a single sponsor works better. Hell, the adult industry is always at the forefront of net technology, as we all know.

And yet, the more advanced we get, the more it seems that webmasters are discouraged (by other webmasters no less!) to utilize these same analysis tools. Times are getting tougher; we all need to eek out every dime and use every edge we can!!! There will always be cheaters; there will also be people who will pull stuff. Doesn't matter if we're using the cutting edge or all forced to make HTML 1.0 spec pages, someone will always find a way around something, some way to cheat, if they've had their heart set to do so to begin with.

To me it's only good business sense to use the tools that are there to legitimately try to increase revenue. That's the very definition of business and I'm a businessperson.

Yes, too some degree I do understand the concerns TGP owners might have, but there comes a point where the majority of honest webmasters are constantly hand-strapped because of the few cheaters. (Hell I had a thread on here a few months about using "content wells" and that saving, logical tool was also frowned upon because there's ways to cheat or steal with that. So because someone might, that idea was also ditched and met with great disappoval. Seems if you think out of the box or use something logical, there's 100 different reasons why that's yet another no-no.)

Again, I know everyone would love to control what they are linking to and what is not on their servers, but hey guys, at what point is this going too damned far??? Wazza, are you ever going to let webmasters get past 1998 web coding? Let's go to your example, if family frolics or whatever going to come back to hurt you if someone did do such a thing? Case law of the past five years says the exact opposite. Content ON one's site will get thatwebmaster in trouble; owners linking to content off server law has always struck down that they are NOT responsible. Why be (other than ethics, which hey, I know are important) so concerned when you have law on your side?

So Wazza, cause MAYBE someone MIGHT cheat and MIGHT put something in 1:100 banners, you'll just reject them? But hey let me put in that static banner and change it up on you (something I would never do) and you're jim dandy happy with it. Ok. You're choice. I just don't know why honest webmasters are constantly slammed cause MAYBE they might cheat. Maybe we should lock everybody up people, because MAYBE they'll murder someone someday. Same logic applies. Take a look at the movie "Minority Report" and you'll see what I'm getting at here.

Surfn, you say try a new gallery. Let me demonstrate how silly that is. I want to check, for example, six ebony sponsors against each other, and I also want to see which of four banners from each works the best. So I have to make (6x4) 24 galleries in order to figure that out because rotators can be used for evil purposes??? Yeah you can kill a man with a drinking straw too.

Fine, let me pretend I submit to the Hun or someone and get one gallery every three days. Gee, instead of using a rotator and seeing in a matter of 48 hours the data, instead (24x3) let me instead take three months to do the very same thing. Hmm, three months or two days? What's the most logical? What is the least time consuming? What is the most productive? Doing it the other is just stupid business and bad business; in fact, it's anti-business. Let alone how a sponsors conversion rate would change in those same three months and thus totally invalidate the results anyhow!

Like I said, it's as easy to cheat with a static page as a rotator AND the law precedent favors the TGP owner. So what is the deal??? I do wish those scared of cheaters and scums would instead encourage, rather than hamper, the bulk of honest webmasters to make more money and to run things like a business. I hope I've swayed some opinions, but I'd be surprised if I have. No doubt I'll be flamed. Fine, I can handle it.

Seems the cheaters rule the net, and the over policing doesn't stop it, instead it just stops the good guys; and since the cheaters will always find a way to cheat, I think the good-intentioned over-regulating folks end up actually inadvertantly helping the bad guys, while punishing the good ones. Have any of you considered that is the way things are going? That you're hurting webmaster wallets for the sake of attempted prevention of people doing something that "you don't like"? Isn't that too much like throwing out the baby with the bath water?

But hey I'm an honest businessman and all I want is to continue to be both, honest and to do intelligent business -- and to in an hoenst way make as much money as I can using the best tools out there to do so. I know this sounds crazy, but I think we should all be allowed that. I think we should even be encouraged to do that. I even have the nerve to think that's what we're all supposed to be doing here! So please, let us do it and chill out on the heavy handed rules up the wahzoo, huh?

Just wanted to add, I may come off strong in my opinions. They're not said angrily, maybe just forcefully.
Not making enemies, just making a point.
It's becoming more frustrating as the stack of rules, regulations and can't-do-this, can't-do-that's just keep coming out in reems.
I really do understand many of your concerns. I just hope you also understand mine as well, and realize that the well-intentioned rules are hurting more people then they are helping. And that often the majority is being forced to pay the price for a few. And that I think that should stop.
Thanks. :)

I appreciate what you're saying - and I actually agree with all of it - however, I believe you will have difficulty getting this through with many tgps - unless... you speak to everyone you would like to submit to beforehand and get their clearance to do so.

My comments before were based on a "cold" submitter - if I didn't know the submitter there'd be no way known I'd permit a rotator.

The rules havent changed much in years.
The rules that most of the TGPs have now, were made because of cheaters and way too many submissions.

This is a pretty competetive business for us too. We all compete for advertsing revenue. I cant afford to have cheaters redirecting or putting beast or KP banners on galleries after they have been listed. So, if your gallery changes after its been listed, a red light goes off on the screen, the gallery is deleted and you are not submitting anymore. Its not as if there aren't enough galleries around.

Ditto and I might add that we can fill the cats with hosted galleries if they get low.

Yes, this is 2003 and the same cheats are still out there X10!

As said, I didn't think I'd change any minds. At least I (sincerely) appreciate the listen. |peace|

|twinkle If any TGP accepts sponsor banner rotators, either on a general basis or on a one-on-one basis, please hit me up or list your URL here. Thank you!

Hey Drav get post :) Here is my two cents, as far as banner rotations go on tgp galleries I would list them if I trusted the submitter "THE KEY WORD IS TRUST" here. There is such a lack of it these days its not funny as far as the cheaters go they are a big factor we all spend hours upon hours blacklisting them to the point we say fuck it and start listing only our own galleries, sites ect. But there is always a place for a good submitter to get listed :)

I would if I really, really trusted the webmasters, but my script would then delete them right out as soon a new banner was rotated in. I know this because it did this to my own galleries that I tried it on.

I actually ended up have to get a different script for my own personal stuff and sponsor stuff in. It a gallery rotator that I have its links mixed in with my submits.

There is no way in hell that a gallery with conventional banners, no matter how you rotate those puppies, is going to make as good sales as a focused modern gallery that doesn't use banners.

Banners are not a reasonable sales tool for galleries.

The profit margin on galleries is low enough as it is.

It's not a competitive idea in todays market.

That's what I was thinking.

Banners do not sell in TGP anywhere near as good as text sells using the right keywords to entice the surfer to click.

MML and Cleo, yes, perhaps one of the answers is definitely giving more slack to trusted webmasters.

Bill and Ramster, know what you're saying about text links and pretty much agree. Same thing applies though, my banner rotator can change out the text links to different sponsors too. In fact, that would be a superb way to test out sponsors.

Let's say I had an Asian gallery, six sponsors in my rotation, and used the text "Click here for hot Asian babes" (as an example), but the URL would rotate to different sponsors. Again, a great way of seeing who converts better!

Of course that wouldn't be allowed either unless the TGP owner knows you already.

Dravyk, actually you could easily do what you suggest without changing the checksum of the page, so I see no reason why many TGPs wouldn't post and keep such galleries. Some TGPs are seriously picky, you might/will get overlooked at those, but the majority don't care too much if you use a script to direct the traffic off the page.

Plenty of places don't accept blind links, which your system would be, but plenty of places do

The only reason I can see to do what you suggest is to test out a group of sponsors. Otherwise, you will make more profit per gallery by focusing the gallery on a specific sponsor.

ANY little thing that reduces the fragile trust of the TGP surfer reduces your profit.

I would go so far as to state categorically that no dynamic page of any sort can compete with a straight html page with a focused sell and storyline that promotes a specific sponsor. If they could they would have crowded out straight html pages long ago, because they would be easier to produce in volume.

I agree with alot that has been said..

Yep Dravyk, it seems now we have have to do what governments do.. make rules for the lowest common denominator! So now the scammers rule and honest webmasters have to wade thru the shit just to submit something. It's sad really. :(

With Mr ML 100%... TRUST is the key.. Of the submits I get in a day I have to trawl thru miles of crap looking for the decent ones.. and it is a relief to find one from someone you know and trust.

I have no probs with Banners rotators on galls or sites.

DD

I would go so far as to state categorically that no dynamic page of any sort can compete with a straight html page with a focused sell and storyline that promotes a specific sponsor. If they could they would have crowded out straight html pages long ago, because they would be easier to produce in volume.

And the quickest way to create a straight html page like this is???

Test???

oopss - 1st paragraph -
"originally posted by Bill" didn't work - my fault

Dare, you do see a fair amount of "script generated pages", straight html thrown together by a gallery creator. Some of the old big time gallery posters have been doing this for a long time. And those pages can obviously make a profit, because month after month, year after year, they are showing up again and again. They're easy to recognize.

I don't see any reason why a clever person couldn't use a gallery generator to make a more modern focused gallery, thats just a design problem.

But the finished product is still your basic html. I've seen a fair number of people come and go who were showing off complex dynamic galleries, with banner rotators, thumbnail rotators, graphic rotators, so that one short page of dynamic script could in theory produce hundreds of distinct galleries.

But they always go, and I don't see their galleries posted at the big TGPS. (Some hosted galleries look dynamic, but I haven't bothered to check to be sure.)

Bill -
I agree with you that straight html pages are the way to go.

But maybe I missed something, I thought Dravyk's question and further reply indicated that he wanted to be able to choose, switch and test sponsors in an efficient manner.

I believe that a well written program with banner and text rotations is the way to go to simply test them out.

Though the problem now will come down to trust.
I would not suggest submitting a gallery or free site without emailing them first.
But if he has the relationship with the folks he submits to, and they know what his intentions are, then I don't see any problems with shortening the testing time.

Have you sat in the chair of a TGP reviewer lately?

For each acceptable listing from a 'new' submitter (not people who are repeat submitters and might have a password), so for every 'new' submitter which you can list and don't have to ban three days later, there are some 30-40 which you have to reject straight away because they didn't read the rules, they change their pages even before you get to review them, they send you obviously stolen content (like sponsorA on the images, sponsorB in their advertising), etc. And for every 'new' submitter you can consider a trusted submitter there were another 5 which despite all caution slipped through and you blacklist them a few days later...
IT'S FRUSTRATING |pcsucks|

As far as I know the majority of TGPs don't allow ANY script on galleries anymore, not even counter script - FULL STOP
If you have a different idea you are welcome to start your own TGP following your rules...

Seems the friend or "partner" thing is the only way then I guess.

I would have thought maybe 5% cheaters and 95% honest, but if 5 cheat out of every 6, I guess that flips it to 15% honest and 85% are cheaters. I had no idea it was that severe. |sad| ... No wonder everyone is looking at me so oddly.

Guess being a links list owner, and not a TGP owner or viewer, my over five years of experience has shown the opposite, where maybe 1 in 20 will redirect their freesites or add console hell after submission.

As to the issue of templates galleries, I have to go with Bill and disagree with DareUTwo. At the risk of sounding spammy, a little imagination and a script capable of giving one great freedom with user-defined variables (like Content God) one can make a wide variation using the same template, as well as creating a large number of different templates.

Just this week I've finally gotten around to playing with CG for my own TG submissions use and have variables I put into my gallery templates that can control multiple colors, different sponsor text, and and much more. With different content, different colors, different text, a single template can be made to look *very* different every single time.

Even so, am working to make up 10 templates, so by the time the first one gets used again, and then altered with the variables, it should keep even the most discriminating TGP reviewer and adult surfer very happy. But yes, you do need to put some effort and creativity into it, and yes you need a script that allows you to do on-the-fly alterations in order to achieve it.

It's not this bad in real proportion of dishonest webmasters, just the cheats are mostly (not all!) from Russia or Eastern Europe, working in groups and bombarding TGPs with sometimes hundreds of autosubmitted galleries every day - so a reviewer has to sift through all of them to find the gems...

Hence you would want to have several filters in your submission software to keep this proportion as low as possible...

I would accept banner or text script rotated galleries if it was
submitted by someone I knew...

I PREFER that people I know or people that are REGULAR
posters here on this board that want to submit a gallery
to me - - - instead shoot off a quick eMail to me and get
a partner access to automatically have their submits posted
directly onto my TGP... I have way to many in my que
waiting approval and I don't want those of people I know
to sit there waiting and waiting... I'd rather you be able
t o get your gallery UP there ASAP...

all galleries are reviewed... it's just that partners galleries
are reviewed a day or so after they are already UP...

I have never had to yank a partners gallery back down....
(crossing my fingers that that never has to happen...)


if anyone from this board does want a partner code
and you are a regular poster on this board....
you can eMail me and copy paste this into the
subject line of your eMail:

Bell - saw the thread on gg&j's about partner submits....



in the body of your letter tell me what your screen name
is here on gg&j's....


does anyone out there have any galleries related to:

Long Hair
Fingernails
Toenails
Ugly Girls
Girls with Shaved Heads
Tattoo galleries
Pierced galleries
mature mature barfly type smoking women
mature mature barfly type smoking men
old hairy men
old hairy fat men
fat men
old old women
old old fat women
bluejean cutoffs
boots
armpits
painted bodies
wheelchair
crutches
cooking naked
christmas
halloween
in trees
in a doghouse
crawling in grass
in feathers
in nothing but gloves
in nothing but hats
naked with a plate of spagetti
or playing with spagetti...

thanks...

eMail me here: evelyn937 At LYCOS DOT com

submit here:
http://www.BellsDirectory.com/tgp



~Bell

Dravyk -
I believe Bill and I agree on the script generated pages, with straight html with solid text links being the key.
Straight html pages generated by CG or whatever program is fine by me.

I thought you were asking if TGP sites would mind if you used variables in your tgp pages(html) to test sponsors.

That, I feel, would have to be taken to each tgp you wish to be listed on because of the level of trust needed.

I've been fumbling around the testing quickly question all summer too.

I know this is a touchy subject for some so please dont take any offence but .....

when your gallery is looked at
your ads are gonna be a huge factor in that review

now you wanna change them ???

how do I know what those ads are gonna say
what sponsors your gonna use
what text
how much space the ad will take up
whats the noise ratio on the page

tgp pages are not a long term source of traffic
so why do you need to change the ads

if you wanna test stuff out then please do it with your own traffic

as far as I am concerned if anything on a page is changed
that page has to be removed from the database asap

doin reveiws is tough enough I cant be goin around lookin at gallerys twice or three times just cause you cant figure out what banners you wanna use

I'm one of those folks who *do* see galleries as long-term traffic, because I leave mine up permanently. Search engines index them, surfers going through TGP archives see them, and heck there are TGPs out there who are just this month sending me approvals for galleries I submitted in March (talk about a backlog!).
So even if you've only got 10 people a day coming in from various sources to an old gallery... 10 of those galleries would be 100 people a day, 100 old galleries would be 1,000 people a day... and every hit counts. :)

Dravyk, it's going to be amusing to watch you getting back into this part of the game. Boy I can hear the ranting now, hehe.
But more than the reviewer or TGP owner, it's the *script* that owns the TGP. Sure, the owner might not have a problem with you changing out sponsor ads - but the script will detect it and either delete it or ban you immediately. There's no reasoning with a script. :(
I would love to be able to change out ads once in a while, but with all of the rampant "our script will BAN you if it detects ANY change in your gallery" stuff going on... it really limits us.
Heck I worry about even changing ads on *free sites* these days, it's gotten so bad with the script check-delete-ban things.

The ones that drive me crazy lately are the scripts that won't take my submission because they "can't get the last-modified date of your page". I just NOW uploaded the thing and I haven't changed it since uploading it, it's brand new - and you're looking for a last modified date?? Arghh|banghead|

I tell ya, its got to be tough for submitters that dont have connections

to many tgp owners look at submits as being worthless

the cheaters and the submit scripts have really takin a toll on the tgps


my first submit was a paysite
and I linked it because I was so thrilled some one put a link back to me

Galleries can be long term traffic as I have many getting SE traffic as well as from archives. But there is no way in hell you'd be allowed at most TGPs to use a rotator in any way shape or form. Make the galleries with text mainly anyway that's designed to grab the surfer's attention.

If you're just getting back into TGP, then you better worry about even getting listed at all at this point. It's a tough market and as Tommy said if you don't know people then it's even tougher.

Tommy I was cool with your post and took no offense -- until the last line, my friend. Shows you didn't read the whole thread before you posted.

If you had, then you would know it has nothing whatsoever to do with "if one can choose a banner or not" -- it is about BUSINESS and figuring out the best converting sponsors and/or banners using the BUSINESS ANALYSIS TOOLS at hand to maximize revenue!!

Regarding the short term traffic comment a) if it is only short term traffic is that a legitimate reason it shouldn't be analyzed for best ROI (return on investment)? b) Plus as Carrie said, with search engines, it can be long-term traffic, not just short-term.

Last question, Tommy: I assume you are talking about general submissions only? You have a friends/partners exception thing for people who have built trust with you or don't you?

Again I understand what TGP owners and reivewers are all saying about general submitters it is too much a risk. I better understand that level of cheating must be tremdendous. Still, that said, it is very sad that new webmasters or webmasters people don't know have to ply stone-aged tools in the age of video cell phones all because 50 s**theads in Romania screw things up.

Carrie regards: "there's no reasoning with a script". Yeah you know I am PRO scripts ... the only script that can't be reasoned with is a badly written one. And it seems to catch cheaters, a lot of these scripts have not had the flexibility put into to them to catch cheaters AND allow honest webmasters through.

That's the "little" problem I'm having, you see -- Overkill. And that's what I'm pissed at. I know TGP owners are sick of cheaters and I don't blame them one bit!! On that, I'm totally with you and I totally see your point! It is the "can't tell the innnocent from the guilty so machine-gun them all" attitude that sucks. The "kill everyone and let God sort them out" mentality that stinks.

So pardon me for thinking there must be a better and greatly fairer way of doing things that helps the general webmaster and the TGP owner/reviewer both, but I think there must be a better way then the current "standard" that exists. That's all I'm saying.

Yep, that's what I mean, Tommy. I'm not so worried about myself. Yeah, I'm sure World Sex never heard of me and neither has Call Kelly, but I know a bunch of others that have. :)

It's the new ones that I'm bitching about/for. But again, if over time good submitters show trust, then cool.

Now I'm worried about those who do know me and who do trust other submitters over time, as to whether their scripts will allow the owners to turn off certain elements or not. That part I don't know (not first-hand knowing all the scripts out there from an admin standpoint). Hopefully those programmers were smart enough to include some kind of override or "friendly" status. I hope.

Makes two of us. :) This thread is helping me get those answers. At least some of the answers. :)

I'm using one of the more popular scripts and I can't turn it off even for my own galleries.

Damn, Cleo! That's exactly the kind of stuff I was concerned about!!

I hate BAD programming! |pissed|