This is crap, I'm buying spots!
 

Ok seriously it was so nice 5-6 years ago, now its totally messed up. This submission thing i am talking about. Dudes, i seriously can't go outthere and submit to 50-60 tgps a day to make a fortune. I realized that its useless to submit to so many sites because most of them does not list anyway.

I would like to thank you first for everyone who helped me out the day i joined this board, especially Ramster.

Ramster: Sorry man, i bothered you a lot :-)

In the past two months, i spent $200 for hosting and $200 for content. No signs up at all, not enough traffic either.

I don't wanna make hundreds of hundreds dollars like Greenguy, because i see this as a hobby. This is not my job, so i just want to spend couple hours everyday, not 10 hours a day.

So this brings me to this point:
I would like to buy gallery spots from TGPs for the next month.
Obviously I am gonna spend more money, but at least i am gonna get some traffic. After i get enough traffic, i can evaluate myself and say yes i can make money or i cant.

BUT submitting to tons of sites does not help me at all without partner accounts and i FIND IT VERY CHILDISH TO LICK SOMEBODY'S A.... IN ORDER TO GET TRAFFIC!

I rather pay and get the traffic. Therefore I am asking help from you guys.

Please share your thoughts with me and tell me please which big TGPs and categories you were successful with. What TGPs do you recommend to buy spots from and how many spots do you think will be enough to start with?

Thank you very much.

Its not a matter of kissing ass its just a matter of trust the cheating factor is a 1000% higher that it was say a year ago :(

Hobbyists and cheats have really fucked things up for those that make a living doing this. :(

Re: This is crap, I'm buying spots!
 

Times have changed and those who control traffic do what they want with it.

Look at it this way:
If you opened a new store and called the local paper would they run an ad spot for you for free? Of course not! So why should sites that already have enough submitters that They Know list the gallery of a new guy who just came along they've never heard of before? Think about it....

As far as a hobbyist. Don't waste your time. You don't want to submit to 50-60 TGPS? What are you going to do? Submit to 10 and think you're going to make sales? You will but it won't even buy you beer.

Noone is going to tell you what categories they are successful with. But I already told you and everyone on this board that DrBizzaro, Jamies-Galleries, CarlasChoice, GorillaLinks, YoungerBabes and a few others have monthly accounts that are worth the money.

Ramster thanks i got the point.

One question i wanna ask:

IS SOMEONE HERE ACCUSING ME BECAUSE I AM DOING THIS AS A HOBBY AND THEREFORE THEY CAN'T MAKE MONEY BECAUSE THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE LIKE ME???
OR
IS IT DOING SOMETHING AS A HOBBY EQUALS TO BEING A CHEATER NOW?

JESUS CHRIST MAN!

Hobbyists are not a contributing body to the adult community per se. They usually try and trick surfers which creates animosity toward webmasters that do this full time. Not all hobbyists, just the majority.


If you want to make money part time you have to become an expert first. Get a good cash flow, then taper off. It will not work the other way around.


Good Luck :)

I think a lot of the good TGP sites will go to paid submissions. Let's face it they have too many partners and they want to make money, also making people pay will keep out the idiots.

If I had a paysite I would happilly pay for listings, as Ramster said what is this thing about getting free advertising.

Might be cheaper to pay for listings than mess around with affiliates on a mass scale.

A stand at Internext would buy how many listings on the top sites?

Hello people...I had to respond after Ramster showed me this link...btw...thanks for the props Ramster.

Personally, this proliferation of "spot sales", imho, is garbage. If the spots were so profitable, I would hire people to make me galleries 24/7 and list only them. This is one of the main reasons I will not go to spot sales....it puts me in too much of a bind to deliver. I would pay a monthly submit account faster than I would ever pay for spots.

Pay to submit? Sure. The submitter has a stake in not cheating...although it did not stop two of them. Anybody that has paid to submit to my site....can honestly say they get listed more times than not and generally the traffic is good. Of course..if someone does not have a chance at getting listed...I give them the cash back. I remember the key....I need good galleries. We all do. My way works out so much cheaper than any spot sales will and both myself and the submitter benefit. Advertising is never free...at least not much anymore.

Licking ass, is not required to get traffic. What is required is top notch galleries and a history of playing fair. The problem lies now in that due to soooo many cheats, webmasters have aligned themselves with great submitters and other tgps. The cheat factor drops, good galleries still come in and everyone is happy.

Cleo says it right.....the hobbyists and cheats are screwing it for people. The cheat is a no brainer but I have seen new people in this business that do not know how to optimize pictures, pages are a mess or are downloaded sponsor galleries, free dated content...the list goes on. Time is money and I personally do not have the time nor am I inclined to assist new people on a daily basis. My icq is bloated at times. I have a few that I help...they help....but that is it.

Is it just me...or does everyone see the circle closing? New people are going to have a very hard time breaking in...for many reasons. It is not due to cheats or the ones here for a hobby...but just that there are sooo many "webmasters" now?

btw...."hundreds of hundreds dollars like Greenguy"...
Nooo....not even close......replace a few words there


|greenguy|

Thanks...I just did not want to be recognized as a cheater.
Anyways, even being as hobbyist I am still putting money here and i am willing to put more money.

If anyone here does not think that i will affect their traffic in some way, I would still like to hear recommended TGPs to get an account from. Just looking some good TGPs worth buying from and i am not requesting any categories like i asked before.

Thank you.

More thing i recognized i meant actually partner accounts for a fee instead of getting an ad spot.

I already told you above what sites I'd recommend. Actorguy is from CarlasChoice btw.

Actorguy
Yes an abundance of webmasters makes a difference too for sure and that's what I've told Van Helsing. Most TGPs already get enough good submissions, they don't need more which is one reason why he's not getting listed.

ActorGuy LTNS :) good to see ya around here |bananna|

Van Helsing - after reading this, I (and I hope you dont take this the wrong way) would recommend that you try a slightly different route to do this part-time and make a go of it. First off TGP is a really tough game - you have to have incredible numbers to see a good ROI from the galleries - especially just starting out.
On the other hand, making free sites and submitting those to LLs every day (and I mean every day whether you feel like it or not) and then if you have time left over, making a tgp gallery out of your free site galleries and submit those to maybe 30 good tgps - for the time being to get your name out there and recognized - and keep this effort up for 6 months, I would expect you to be making at least a few hundred a month . Add in some hubs and your own little fake tgps and LLs and your empire will grow - again only limited by the amount of time and effort you put into it.

If you tell me that you dont have the time to submit to 30 tgps and 36 LLs every day, which once you get in the habit should take under an hour, then you definitely aren't cut out to do this.
But I know of at least 100 WMs Ive personally watched and helped in the past, that have done this biz in their spare time, and are doing thousands and thousands a month now.

Thanks Linkster...there are never enough hours in the day to do what we have to do.

Actually...I am now Wes Savage.....compliments of:http://www.mypornname.com
|waves|

j/k

AG |jester|

Yeah I was renamed Chad Rage :) guess they know my profile too well LOL

|waves| Hi ActorGuy, great to see you stopping by. :)

I like the paid yearly submit pass very much and if and when I go to paid submit I'll probably model mine after ActorGuy's system.

It isn't so much the money as it is I want to know how is really submitting to me and a token payment of about $100 per year seems about right.

This business is NOT a hobby for me, it is a majority of my income. It is very hard to compete with someone that is happy to only make a few grand or less a month doing this as a hobby. I like what I do but I do it to make money not have fun.

IMO hobbyists are very much a problem in this industry.

Will there be a GG&J frequent poster discount? |flowers|

$99.95 (we're cheap bastards - LOL)

|doh|

Linkster, you are absolutely right. This is i guess have to do with my age. I am just too curious, and get mad quick when i do a clean gallery and nobody lists it, or when i don't make money right away. Most people here has been in this business for many years or had or worked in other business for many years. They have a lot of experience than i do for sure.

So what i have decided to do is to switch my hosting to a cheaper one and build just free-sites. If i make my name out there and start earning some cash, then i can move to the next step from being hobbists to the real deal.

Thanks for people who shared their thoughts with us.

And Linkster, may i request your ICQ number to ask some questions if you don't mind?? I've been bothering Ramster too much i guess :-)

Sites are nice, low BW, long term traffic, four pages of ads. :)

Van Helsing, it looks like you are presupposing that if you were to get listed that you would get at least enough conversions to cover the paid listing spot as well as your other costs.

I'm a newbie too but I have the advantage of doing it full time. I've been at it thrree months and everyday there is something new to learn. Since you only can work on your adult stuff a couple of hours a day of course it is going to take longer to master good sales text and design. Once you have those down, maybe paid listing would be more profitable.

Just a thought...

-A

Hi Cleo....

Ya...a few people got a submit pass when I started with a one time fee. Things have changed of course for many reasons but..you are one that will never pay again. |smooch|

Galleries... oh how I wish I could get listed everytime on lumberjacks etc. etc. however after like 4 months of submitting every 2-3 days a gallery I got listed at Persian Kitty's TGP :)

Im building mostly free sites, I have partner accounts on very few TGP's : pichunter, freepicseries.com, hi-octane, sextitan, realityperv , but Im still filling the partner request forms and hoping to get some more accounts :)

The thing that hurts me is that after 7 months of submitting I still didnt make it to get listed on Tommys and JK's , I dont know maybe Im on their blacklist or something, I emailed JK , no reply, so I cut submitting to him :(
I know a friend I reffered to the biz made only 3 sites and allready is listed on both.

Its in my profile - and I dont think anyone here is ever above giving anyone some "appreciated" help :) Thats part of what makes this board a cut above the rest out there with the willingness of everyone here to help someone that really wants to learn and get into this full time in the future :)

Ok, no problem.

Re: Re: This is crap, I'm buying spots!
 

|roses|

Great thread.
IMO Cheaters are about 90% to blame for the way things have gone in the past 2 years.

It's too bad really.

Since I am the one who started this thread, i hope you guys don't put me in the same shoes with cheaters when you guys talk about cheaters.

I totally agree that cheaters are problem for people who earns money from this business. I can also see the reason why you guys don't like hobbists because they probably don't pay much attention to the rules and waste your time when they submit galleries.

Now let me tell you something, i am 23 years old and i started doing this before many of you. The only board outthere were YNOT and then ******* opened. There were only couple people in my country who had modem. Of course it was a hobby for me and still is. I don't know how many years has it been, but i guess its pretty obvious that i was too young to see the potential of adult biz and i believed that my education was more important, so i stopped doing it.(A lot of webmasters today who survived today were getting into trouble at that time due to lack of laws at that time)

Please don't blame someone you don't know anything about him/her. I came here to learn things from the beginning. Rules obviously changed a lot and i am back again as a newbie.

To be perfectly honest with you guys, i can't look at BDSM stuff or gay stuff. I don't like to build galleries which are not attracting me at all. I am pretty sure they bring more money than teens or amateurs, but this is not what i look for when i surf on the net.
It's my hobby and always was to look at softcore pictures of beautiful women. Playboy girls, centerfolds, just beautiful women. When i build sites i enjoy doing it. Of course its my hobby and i am happy the way it is. The big guys you know in the biz, ask them and they will tell you that they started this as a hobby. (At least thats what they were saying to us at ******* :-) )

I would like to thank here to Richard's Realm. I don't know if he comes here or not, but this guy is the guy to be respected. Every gallery that i posted to his TGP got accepted or declined with a reason. That's what i call honest webmaster. When you email him, he emails you back. That's a man who does a honest job and that's what i believe all the webmasters must follow who is making money as a full time worker.

Now at the beginning of this thread, Ramster gave me an example of local newspapers. He said that if i don't pay, i won't get an ad. Absolutely true. Now here is my example:

You are going to McDonalds and you are ordering a big mac. The guy who works there, does not say anything???? You ask for a big mac, but no response. He says: "Next...."
He ignores you may be because you are not well dressed ??? Maybe you have an accent???? Maybe you don't look like an American??? why ??? Oh i got it, because he does not know you!!!!
Another perspective........A bodyguard in front of a club must accept you if you are following the dress code right? Now comes the point....What if the club is full??? Like the TGPs who can't let more submissions.
Well, then do like Richards, and tell them that they can't allow more submissions at this hour OR at least don't make the webmaster wonder if it is his dress that does not fit for the club, if the club is full, if the bodyguards must know him first, and the list goes on and on...

Thank you to everyone who shared their thoughts with us.

P.S: My cousin and i carry the same passport. Every time we enter the U.S, the immigration guys search me from bottom to the top, but never my cousin. I have absouletely no solid reason why they don't search him. Do you know what goes thru my mind that seperates me from him?? Its actually not the passport they care about, its your skin color!!! (I am not black by the way, and i am NOT talking about black/white thing here)

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you just admitted to doing this before you were 18 :(

Yes true. I also said that there were problems by that time with the laws too. Especially in my country. That's why a lot of sponsors does not allow webmasters from my country. Are they doing something wrong? No. Sponsors are right.

But Greenguy the important point is i learned from my mistakes and i told myself i was doing wrong, so i stopped doing it for a long time. Therefore i am here once again as a newbie.
:-)

it was bad when there were consoles and the dialers were even worse but the toolbars and spyware

if a surfer gets a toolbar installed or some spyware off a link we gave them, they aint coming back. the cheaters are directly threatening our lively hood

I love having free open public submits, but its like shoveling shit against the waves

I wanna list everybody and I hope everyone make a lot of sales from my traffic, but most of all I wanna keep my list clean and I will go to any length to make sure it stays clean

ohh btw

355 Accepted submissions in the last 24 hours (1719 rejected submissions)

Ditto, very well said. :)

VH, I don't think anyone here is automatically labeling you a cheater. I wouldn't worry about that. :)

I've been in this business for almost 8 years now. When I started out, I had no car, no money, and 2 kids to support. I couldn't get a job because I lived in the middle of nowhere and couldn't get to work with no car. Taxis and daycare would have cost me more than I could make.

My dad had loaned me a PC and I ran across a Cybererotica banner. I clicked it, saw a "make money" link at the bottom of the site, and signed up.

I had no money to buy hosting or content. I used Cybererotica's free content and built a few sites and used Geocities to host and I ran several IRC chatrooms to get traffic. I had no choice. I had kids to feed.

Soon, Porncity opened their free host. That was great. I used Cybererotica's free content and Porncity's free hosting and I built more sites. There weren't many places to get traffic back then. Persian Kitty was the main source. But she wouldn't list me because I was on a free host. That really hurt because I needed the money soooo badly. But it was her site, and her rules. :(

Soon I found someone willing to give me free bannerless hosting because of the situation I was in and PK listed me. (YAY!) I started making some money, but not very much because I was still using free content and PK wouldn't only list two of my sites at any one time. I got a little traffic from SE's, too, but not alot.

I've trudged along all these years, struggling and having problems, but working hard because I had to. Last year I was making very good money with a certain sponsor and for the first time, my life was not so bad. My hard work was paying off. Then the sponsor I was working with discontinued the program I was using and my income dropped sharply. Luckily I had a few other small sources of income, but it hurt and it hurt BADLY. I've had my utilities disconnected multiple times (one today, in fact) lately and I've almost been evicted a couple of times. It's REALLY bad for me right now. I literally don't even have any money for groceries and I have small children and an infant with seizures that requires medication. I'm glad I had some beans and rice and such bought up for emergencies. LOL

I tried submitting galleries, but I got declined for partner accounts at alot of places because it's been a couple of years since I've submitted and they don't know me anymore. I would try link lists, but I don't have time now because I'm doing design work for other people for more certain income and I don't have any spare time at all. In fact, I'm so far behind that I only got about 3-4 hours of sleep last night.

I've been doing graphics work for other people lately, and I was starting to get caught up on my bills, but because of a couple of very difficult clients that demanded a huge number of revisions I've gotten so far behind on my work that I can't take any new work until I get caught up and I need the money from new clients desperately. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I do know that typing this message has been the longest single break from work I've had aside from sleep in about 2 weeks. Sad, huh?

Anyway, I don't begrudge hobbyists their income, but honestly, hobbyists are taking money away from those of us who really need it because it's all we have. I mean, hobbyists have just as much right to do what they want to as anyone else, and of course it would be unfair to try to tell anyone they shouldn't be here just because they "don't need" the money because who am I to say what someone else needs? But that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt me or make me annoyed that there is less money for those of us who are trying to make a living. ;)

And of course, the cheaters are the biggest problem. I don't think hobbyists would even be a real issue if the cheaters didn't make it so difficult for honest professionals and hobbyists to get listed. Cheaters are the biggest reason why I'm working 12-16 hours a day 7 days a week and I'm not even able to keep up with my bills. :(

Welcome to the industry. It's not an easy one to be in anymore. |waves|

tootie,
That's really a long post which touchy. I agree 100% with you. I have been in this only for a year now. But as you said this biz is becoming tougher for honest webmasters who are in the lower level. The guys who already have name rules and the cheaters breaks. Ultimately we suffer. I don't have as much bad situation like you because I got another job to support my mom and sis. But some day I hope to drop that make this full time. But its getting tough day by day. More rules and rules. As they go on creating rules , cheaters find ways to break it and they make new rules.
But I must admit that some of the linklist owners and TGP owners are still friendly with newbies and that makes it possible for me to stay here with some motivation. Thanks guys. |shake|
Neo

One problem with giving newbies a chance - they tend to burn you.

Not ALL of them, and I'm saying anyone in this thread will - but I really don't like giving anyone breaks anymore. Too often, I am reviewing galleries that are 3-5 days old in the review queue, and the gallery is 404, a blank Apache page (if I'm lucky), or a cPanel message saying "No Site Configured At This Address", etc etc

We all have gone thru growing pains, we all have had hosting issues - but I cant afford that. Some newbies dead virtual account cant be my 4th link on a page, because it will cost me tens of thousands of hits that day.

So for anyone new starting out, and getting frustrated by running into so many closed doors - get over it. Nobody owes you anything. This is NOT a hobby to me, it's how I pay my bills and feed my family. It may sound harsh, but I depend on professional gallery builders. If you dont have your act together, dont come a knocking.

Learn the biz, learn how to code a page, optimize graphics, get a good, affordable, stable host. Learn how to write good sales text. Learn how to sell your sponsor/niche.

TGP should not be the first thing a newbie jumps into. Not by a longshot. Start off with building SE pages, AVS sites, freesites. If you learn these well enough, you might not even bother with TGP work. It's harder traffic to convert, and you get hit with a lot more of it - so the BW bill goes up.