Simon - BDSM - Fetish?
 

Simon - I always consider you the 'in house' BDSM voice and I was reading through a reply to a thread a week or so back in regard to the different categories of BDSM and Fetish

Because for many of us the fetishes and a lot of the BDSM niche gets mulled together I was hoping you could break down the genre a bit. Not to the very micro niches but a list of the more well known categories for BDSM and that type of Fetish. No rush, but maybe something to help diversify and better represent the niche within our own link lists/tgp's etc. I for one would find your input very informative and useful.

Thank you

yea I good second this help. Just so that when I go and break my categories up more in the near future I get things setup a little better long term. |thumb

Isn't BDSM just another fetish?

I'll be dividing up my BDSM cat soon as well so I would love to hear from Simon on this.

I don't have that many links in my BDSM category to break into more specific subcategories but I too would like to hear from the expert :D

Yeah, BDSM is another fetish, just like a million others...but quite a big one & with alot of sub-interests within.

Unless you are a dedicated fetish/bdsm site, I would reckon a division along the lines of bondage, bdsm/pain, spanking and femdom would suffice though (+fetish of course, divided into whatever other fetishes you have a need for).

But, you could expand with more or less unlimited sub-BDSM categories should you wish to do so - could be done based on location of the acts (dungeon, bedroom, outdoor etc), the actual action (this ones unlimited but say Whipping, Suspension, Hot Wax, Breast Torments, Pussy Torments, Humiliation etc etc), based on who is doing it and their status (m/f-maledom, f/f-lezdom, f/m-femdom, amateur, pornstar)...and it could continue forever, but I´d be amazed if anyone actually had the need to split that specifically (may a tag system would work better anyhow in such a case - because obviously any freesite would fit several - a lezdom gallery happening in a dungeon of girls in fetishwear doing bondage and spanking whilst theres humiliation going on etc etc)

Thanks for the input hincapie. Useful as well

I too am quite interested to learn more about some of these fetish niches. I don't understand most of them.

BDSM & Fetishes : how they apply to categories
 

Sure, I'll be glad to throw a little light on the darker corners. :)

We'll start with a basic understanding of some terms, but first I have to begin by saying that I disagree very strongly that BDSM is just another fetish. And understanding that (and a few other important details) may help some of you make more sales.

BDSM can indeed contain many elements of fetish behavior but so does most of life. However, there's a very important distinction to remember, and that's the fact that fetish behavior is centered on an object or an act (yes, even partners can be objectifed and depersonalized in fetish play, but that only helps clarify things). BDSM is all about the person/people involved. Sure, there are all sorts of tools and toys used in BDSM play, but the ultimate focus is on the people, not the things or the acts. Power is exchanged between people, submission is given to a person, not to a thing or an act.

Okay, let's look a little closer...

BDSM - this is a sort of catch-all term that's probably the best choice if you only are going to have one category for all of "this kind of stuff." BDSM breaks down as B&D / D&S / S&M so it encompasses Bondage and Discipline, Dominance and Submission, Sadism and Masochism. However, there are no intrinsic dividing lines regarding sexual preferences, which is one big problem when using "BDSM" (or "Fetish") as your catch-all category on a Link List or similar site. More about that in a minute.

Fetish - here we're really referring mostly to sexual fetishes since that's what we're selling most of the time. So if we're talking about the "things" which cause sexual arousal in our audience, then we're in the realm of sexual fetishes and paraphilia. The things may be actual inanimate objects (high heels, rubberwear) or body parts (big tits, feet) or even situations/acts (locked in a dark closet, boot worship, etc). So again, many Link Lists use this as their catch-all category of all kinds of kinky sex. It also lacks the sexual preferences divisions that are really needed though.

When we're talking about breaking things down for categories on a Link List a lot of what applies for those in the real BDSM Lifestyle or the Scene (capitalization intentional) is less important, unless of course you're actively trying to market to those people, which is really something best left to those who are in the Life themselves (seriously, there's no way to fake it well enough to make any money that way).

So for most readers of this board what we're interested in is "BDSM and Kinky Sex" and we're aiming at the surfers who find that arousing. BDSM Lifestyle surfers are a whole different breed and there are far less of them so it's a smarter move not to focus on them unless you're one of them yourself anyway.

Let's get down to the important stuff. One of the more critical things to understand is that the dividing lines of sexual orientation have to be considered when making your categories. See, I told you I'd get back to this.

Consider this as the owner of a Link List or some niche hubs: do you actively promote gay paysites to your surfers who've already told you they're straight? I mean by having banners and buttons and photos of gay sex all over your pages aimed at straight surfers? If you have a 'blowjobs' category page and the text link says: "Deep Throating Facial Freak - an awesome deep throating sequence ending with a hot facial!" - should I have any concern about seeing some dude blowing another dude when I click that link?

If you don't understand why you normally wouldn't mix gay and straight blowjobs on the same page you really need to run some tests. But I think most of you know that it's better to keep them separated for marketing reasons alone. So if you're not already doing the same thing with your Fetish and BDSM category pages, I promise you that you're losing signups that you can get with better filtering.

While I disagreed with Hinc about BDSM not being a fetish, I do agree that what's really needed is a tagging system to go along with categories. And if you're already using tags on your site, you can expand on what I'm suggesting here. But if all you have is categories you can still improve things.

If you only use categories you can just split all FemDomme listings into their own category, and if you have enough listings, then you can split FemDomme into FemDomme/malesub and FemDomme/femsub (also called LezDomme).

There are other distinctions you can make if you have the listings for it, for example in FemDomme/malesub there are men who want to see the guy getting strapon fucked by her and others for whom that ruins everything. And for those for whom it ruins things there are those who are just turned off by strapon sex and others who are disgusted by the very concept of a FemDomme having any sexual contact with a malesub. So a category for FemDomme/strapon is a good idea (and divided between malesubs and femsubs).

But at least start by taking FemDomme out of other categories and you'll make a good start. And split that into malesub vs femsub when you can.

Leave BDSM for maledom/femsub. Maybe even call it BDSM/Maledom. And then start shaving away at that one too. For example, if you have enough listings to break spanking into its own category, do that. But only real spankings should go there, not spankings mixed with other things. Bondage can also have its own category if you can fill it, and again I mean the focus is on the bondage itself, not on other things.

Bondage as a Category - Please don't make the mistake of using this as your catch-all category. That's a very bad idea. Bondage is one small part of BDSM and can be involved in some fetishes. But it's definitely not a catch-all for other things. If you use a bondage category the focus should be on the ropes and the rigging, the chains, manacles and handcuffs, the bondage wear and bondage gear. It's the actual bondage that bondage fans want to see (and it should be good bondage to appeal to those surfers). Sexual acts can be included but the focus should be more on the bondage than on pain created by other activities.

Fetish as a Category - While many sites use this as a catch-all category the way some use BDSM as their catch-all, it's really not a good idea to put all the listings in this one either, for all the reasons already mentioned plus the fact that while fetishes could be in the BDSM category, BDSM really should not be presented as a fetish if you want to sell it. And you can sell fetishes much better if you present the major fetishes on their own pages. (I think I'll let someone else tackle what the major fetishes are, or I'll make a run at that later.)

Anyway... that's the really important part, the selling. If you want to get more signups to BDSM and Fetish paysites then you need to first filter the traffic to more finely-tuned category pages and then present very specific ads and promotions to the surfers visiting those category pages. And speak to them with words tailored to their specific interests which lead them to those pages. (For example, on your FemDomme pages you'd never refer to them as 'kinky bitches' or 'hot latex sluts' unless you want to lose your surfers.)

So let's do a quick recap of the basic categories you should use if you have the listings for them, or at least what you should be planning for as you grow:

BDSM
BDSM/maledom/femsub
BDSM/maledom/malesub (usually but not always gay)
BDSM/FemDomme/malesub
BDSM/FemDomme/malesub/strapon
BDSM/FemDomme/femsub (LezDomme but also not always gay)

BDSM/bondage
BDSM/spanking

Fetishes
(and all the sub-cats you can make, focused on the 'things')


Okay, that's all for now. Feel free to hit me up on icq or catch me in the GG&J chat most days if you have questions as you're working on your category pages. And of course you can post questions right here too.

:)

Glad to hear that as I was wondering if I should have made BDSM a sub category of Fetish or not.

Interesting that you say that spanking goes under BDSM. I always thought that it should but a few years ago I got into a big pissing match with someone who insisted that it should go under fetish and not BDSM which is where I ended up putting it when I divided up my fetish cat last month.

Spanking is where you can get into a lot of big arguments. Some spanking purists will tell you that the only real spankings are administered with a bare, open hand to a bare bottom bent over your knees. Others will say the bottom should not be bared. Some will say a paddle is acceptable. Some say a cane is fine too. Others include the hairbrush, strap (or strop), ruler and belt. There are other implements that can be used to 'administer a spanking' but once you start crossing over to riding crops, whips, floggers, tawse, switches and birching, you're a long way from the original bare hand OTK.

Here's my take on doing the Spanking category: I put it under BDSM since without any bondage there's probably a better fit there under the Discipline, Domination and Submission, and even S&M parts of the BDSM umbrella. Also, unless the Spanker and Spankee are completely focused on the implements used (including insisting it must be a bare hand) and the action itself in a very fetishistic way, the spanking is always being done by a person to a person so it's just another BDSM activity in my view.

Yes, I can see 'also' doing a Spanking fetish category for the purists out there, and monetizing it only with pure spanking promotions. But all the other kinds of spankings I'd filter to the BDSM surfers.

IMNSHO/YMMV

:)

Excellent post Simon, that answered a bunch of questions I've had tumbling around my head for a while :D

Now the big question, is it a good idea to have a BDSM catch-all and a Fetishes catch-all category on a linklist? I've had that setup going for a while on one of my former LL's and it seemed to work out okay, but it's very hard to accurately work it based purely on categories.

I've been going more by what I find listed under a category. So if I have a bunch of listings for Foot Fetish then I make a Foot Fetish category but if I only have one listing for Dancing Dwarfs then it would get mixed in with a general fetish category.

Excellent reply Simon. Thank you so much. I knew you'd be the one to ask.

Sure, that's what lots of sites do. It's better than having just a BDSM, or worse, just a Fetish category for everything. But even having those two categories still mixes things which are best not mixed. Surfers looking for MaleDoms punishing submissive females are not interested in seeing men punished by FemDommes, and vice versa. So trying to monetize your category pages is going to be nowhere near the sniper shots it could be with a little finer filtering.

Exactly right, you can't really build a good category page without some listings to put there. If you have enough of any kind of fetish to break it out to its own page it's worth doing, given that there are sponsor paysites you can promote better from that new page. In fact, using your example, as long as someone knows of sponsors who have paysites with Dancing Dwarfs it's worth thinking about what else you might be able to put on that category page just to flesh it out enough to be useful for promoting the dwarfs paysite.

It's really about what can be sold from each page, and how filtering out those who aren't interested in certain things will result in more pre-qualified traffic on the new pages. That's the real reason to do this, so unless it'll generate more sales to create the additional pages there's no need to do the work. Making new category pages is part of the equation, with the other part being which niche and micro-niche paysites you can promote on those pages.

:)

Cheers for some interesting posts, youre brilliant at trying to put words on the lifestyle and link it to the biz.

I strongly agree with this point - in terms of catering to the visitor it is quite important to at least split the femdom/malesub from the maledom/femsub material - and to filter the BDSM from the glamour fetish of various kinds....so BDSM, Femdom & Fetish would seem like an ideal minimum in terms of splitting.

Great post Simon. Exactly the type of posts we all need to improve our business.

-Neo

I signed up here to specifically say that this is a most excellent thread. Much appreciated!