Do TGP owners care about sponsor banner rotating?

[Dravyk]

I'm about to get back into some serious TGP gallery building and submissions.

The guy doing it for me is concerned that since we'll be using a rotating script for the sponsor banners (the recip links are static, just the sponsor banner and possibly the sponsor text links) that some of the larger TGP owners might not like it.

Picky as hell as they tend to be, I've not heard of anyone (yet) banning this as well. That said, I've seen some insane rules over the years.

Opinions? Or heard of any such rules? Thanks!

[Greenguy]

I don't know of anyone that declines or bans you for using a rotator for sponsor ads - hell, I actually encourage it

[Wazza]

Any halfway decent tgp script will spot the change and (depending on the owner) ban you or simply remove the listing...

[Dravyk]

Thanks, Greenie! I think being able to see what sponsor and/or banner does best in a niche and tracking CTRs and figuring out what gives you the best money is the only way to go!

Wazza, please explain why a TGP would care about sponsor link changes? We're not talking about cheating them with recip link changes nor removing the listing (if you fully read my post.)

Btw, already did a test with Brownie and others. They don't care. Well written program(s). Yes, if the recip was done via SSI or changed, the script(s) would reject it. It doesn't care if other links change. Which is IMHO as it should be.

[matt]

I think there are heaps of TGP's that'll remove and blacklist you for changing the page size after you've been listed...

The way around this would be to make sure all your ads have the same amount of characters, with comments tags.

A lot of TGP's only allow static pages and no javascript too...

[Wazza]

A couple of reasons - cheaters are becoming more advanced and tgp owners are on a hair trigger. Also if you're rotating your banners how do I know that 1 out 100 in your rotation isn't "fam*ly frolics" or "f*rced fantasies" (or a sponsor which I've banned for my own reasons)? I'm not gonna sit there refreshing your gallery all day just to be sure... I'm gonna reject it and move on...

Did you check this with your own version of brownie? Surely its config can allow owners to kill off listings that change after listing?

[Surfn]

I tend to agree with Wazza. I can understand and don't mind one change of sponsor, hell if isn't making money try something else, but more than that try a new gallery. |rasta|

[ShermsShack]

As long as the content is owned by yourself or the company you're promoting it should be ok.

But like it's been said: Beware of the scripts removing/blacklisting you!

[the New Shemp]

I like to see the what is going to be posted.
dont like those rotating banners, you never know what will show up on there

[Dravyk]

Alright, gents, I wanted feedback and I got it. Sadly, it's the kind I expected to hear. So now, another point of view. I heard you, I hope you listen and consider what I'm saying as well.

If someone is going to do something nasty, they're pretty much going to make it look all innocent to start out with right? I mean they can put an Asian banner up, get listed and change it to CP or beastiality banner easily afterwards. What's it take, 30 seconds?

Whereas someone with a rotating sponsor banner is pretty much upfront letting you know it's what it is. Make sense? Sway you at all? More importantly would you still turn that down?

Way I see it, it's 2003, people. We have technology here like advanced banner tracking (and again, nothing brand new there) and things that can make webmasters eek out better ROI, better sales, see what sponsor works better, see what banner from a single sponsor works better. Hell, the adult industry is always at the forefront of net technology, as we all know.

And yet, the more advanced we get, the more it seems that webmasters are discouraged (by other webmasters no less!) to utilize these same analysis tools. Times are getting tougher; we all need to eek out every dime and use every edge we can!!! There will always be cheaters; there will also be people who will pull stuff. Doesn't matter if we're using the cutting edge or all forced to make HTML 1.0 spec pages, someone will always find a way around something, some way to cheat, if they've had their heart set to do so to begin with.

To me it's only good business sense to use the tools that are there to legitimately try to increase revenue. That's the very definition of business and I'm a businessperson.

Yes, too some degree I do understand the concerns TGP owners might have, but there comes a point where the majority of honest webmasters are constantly hand-strapped because of the few cheaters. (Hell I had a thread on here a few months about using "content wells" and that saving, logical tool was also frowned upon because there's ways to cheat or steal with that. So because someone might, that idea was also ditched and met with great disappoval. Seems if you think out of the box or use something logical, there's 100 different reasons why that's yet another no-no.)

Again, I know everyone would love to control what they are linking to and what is not on their servers, but hey guys, at what point is this going too damned far??? Wazza, are you ever going to let webmasters get past 1998 web coding? Let's go to your example, if family frolics or whatever going to come back to hurt you if someone did do such a thing? Case law of the past five years says the exact opposite. Content ON one's site will get thatwebmaster in trouble; owners linking to content off server law has always struck down that they are NOT responsible. Why be (other than ethics, which hey, I know are important) so concerned when you have law on your side?

So Wazza, cause MAYBE someone MIGHT cheat and MIGHT put something in 1:100 banners, you'll just reject them? But hey let me put in that static banner and change it up on you (something I would never do) and you're jim dandy happy with it. Ok. You're choice. I just don't know why honest webmasters are constantly slammed cause MAYBE they might cheat. Maybe we should lock everybody up people, because MAYBE they'll murder someone someday. Same logic applies. Take a look at the movie "Minority Report" and you'll see what I'm getting at here.

Surfn, you say try a new gallery. Let me demonstrate how silly that is. I want to check, for example, six ebony sponsors against each other, and I also want to see which of four banners from each works the best. So I have to make (6x4) 24 galleries in order to figure that out because rotators can be used for evil purposes??? Yeah you can kill a man with a drinking straw too.

Fine, let me pretend I submit to the Hun or someone and get one gallery every three days. Gee, instead of using a rotator and seeing in a matter of 48 hours the data, instead (24x3) let me instead take three months to do the very same thing. Hmm, three months or two days? What's the most logical? What is the least time consuming? What is the most productive? Doing it the other is just stupid business and bad business; in fact, it's anti-business. Let alone how a sponsors conversion rate would change in those same three months and thus totally invalidate the results anyhow!

Like I said, it's as easy to cheat with a static page as a rotator AND the law precedent favors the TGP owner. So what is the deal??? I do wish those scared of cheaters and scums would instead encourage, rather than hamper, the bulk of honest webmasters to make more money and to run things like a business. I hope I've swayed some opinions, but I'd be surprised if I have. No doubt I'll be flamed. Fine, I can handle it.

Seems the cheaters rule the net, and the over policing doesn't stop it, instead it just stops the good guys; and since the cheaters will always find a way to cheat, I think the good-intentioned over-regulating folks end up actually inadvertantly helping the bad guys, while punishing the good ones. Have any of you considered that is the way things are going? That you're hurting webmaster wallets for the sake of attempted prevention of people doing something that "you don't like"? Isn't that too much like throwing out the baby with the bath water?

But hey I'm an honest businessman and all I want is to continue to be both, honest and to do intelligent business -- and to in an hoenst way make as much money as I can using the best tools out there to do so. I know this sounds crazy, but I think we should all be allowed that. I think we should even be encouraged to do that. I even have the nerve to think that's what we're all supposed to be doing here! So please, let us do it and chill out on the heavy handed rules up the wahzoo, huh?

[Dravyk]

Just wanted to add, I may come off strong in my opinions. They're not said angrily, maybe just forcefully.
Not making enemies, just making a point.
It's becoming more frustrating as the stack of rules, regulations and can't-do-this, can't-do-that's just keep coming out in reems.
I really do understand many of your concerns. I just hope you also understand mine as well, and realize that the well-intentioned rules are hurting more people then they are helping. And that often the majority is being forced to pay the price for a few. And that I think that should stop.
Thanks. :)

[Wazza]

I appreciate what you're saying - and I actually agree with all of it - however, I believe you will have difficulty getting this through with many tgps - unless... you speak to everyone you would like to submit to beforehand and get their clearance to do so.

My comments before were based on a "cold" submitter - if I didn't know the submitter there'd be no way known I'd permit a rotator.

[the New Shemp]

Originally posted by Dravyk
Just wanted to add, I may come off strong in my opinions. They're not said angrily, maybe just forcefully.
Not making enemies, just making a point.
It's becoming more frustrating as the stack of rules, regulations and can't-do-this, can't-do-that's just keep coming out in reems.
I really do understand many of your concerns. I just hope you also understand mine as well, and realize that the well-intentioned rules are hurting more people then they are helping. And that often the majority is being forced to pay the price for a few. And that I think that should stop.
Thanks.

The rules havent changed much in years.
The rules that most of the TGPs have now, were made because of cheaters and way too many submissions.

This is a pretty competetive business for us too. We all compete for advertsing revenue. I cant afford to have cheaters redirecting or putting beast or KP banners on galleries after they have been listed. So, if your gallery changes after its been listed, a red light goes off on the screen, the gallery is deleted and you are not submitting anymore. Its not as if there aren't enough galleries around.

[Surfn]

Originally posted by the New Shemp
The rules havent changed much in years.
The rules that most of the TGPs have now, were made because of cheaters and way too many submissions.

This is a pretty competetive business for us too. We all compete for advertsing revenue. I cant afford to have cheaters redirecting or putting beast or KP banners on galleries after they have been listed. So, if your gallery changes after its been listed, a red light goes off on the screen, the gallery is deleted and you are not submitting anymore. Its not as if there aren't enough galleries around.

Ditto and I might add that we can fill the cats with hosted galleries if they get low.

Yes, this is 2003 and the same cheats are still out there X10!

[Dravyk]

As said, I didn't think I'd change any minds. At least I (sincerely) appreciate the listen.

|twinkle If any TGP accepts sponsor banner rotators, either on a general basis or on a one-on-one basis, please hit me up or list your URL here. Thank you!

[MrMaryLou]

Hey Drav get post Here is my two cents, as far as banner rotations go on tgp galleries I would list them if I trusted the submitter "THE KEY WORD IS TRUST" here. There is such a lack of it these days its not funny as far as the cheaters go they are a big factor we all spend hours upon hours blacklisting them to the point we say fuck it and start listing only our own galleries, sites ect. But there is always a place for a good submitter to get listed

[Cleo]

I would if I really, really trusted the webmasters, but my script would then delete them right out as soon a new banner was rotated in. I know this because it did this to my own galleries that I tried it on.

I actually ended up have to get a different script for my own personal stuff and sponsor stuff in. It a gallery rotator that I have its links mixed in with my submits.

[Bill]

There is no way in hell that a gallery with conventional banners, no matter how you rotate those puppies, is going to make as good sales as a focused modern gallery that doesn't use banners.

Banners are not a reasonable sales tool for galleries.

The profit margin on galleries is low enough as it is.

It's not a competitive idea in todays market.

[Ramster]

Originally posted by Bill
There is no way in hell that a gallery with conventional banners, no matter how you rotate those puppies, is going to make as good sales as a focused modern gallery that doesn't use banners.

Banners are not a reasonable sales tool for galleries.

The profit margin on galleries is low enough as it is.

It's not a competitive idea in todays market.

That's what I was thinking.

Banners do not sell in TGP anywhere near as good as text sells using the right keywords to entice the surfer to click.

[Dravyk]

MML and Cleo, yes, perhaps one of the answers is definitely giving more slack to trusted webmasters.

Bill and Ramster, know what you're saying about text links and pretty much agree. Same thing applies though, my banner rotator can change out the text links to different sponsors too. In fact, that would be a superb way to test out sponsors.

Let's say I had an Asian gallery, six sponsors in my rotation, and used the text "Click here for hot Asian babes" (as an example), but the URL would rotate to different sponsors. Again, a great way of seeing who converts better!

Of course that wouldn't be allowed either unless the TGP owner knows you already.

[Bill]

Dravyk, actually you could easily do what you suggest without changing the checksum of the page, so I see no reason why many TGPs wouldn't post and keep such galleries. Some TGPs are seriously picky, you might/will get overlooked at those, but the majority don't care too much if you use a script to direct the traffic off the page.

Plenty of places don't accept blind links, which your system would be, but plenty of places do

The only reason I can see to do what you suggest is to test out a group of sponsors. Otherwise, you will make more profit per gallery by focusing the gallery on a specific sponsor.

ANY little thing that reduces the fragile trust of the TGP surfer reduces your profit.

I would go so far as to state categorically that no dynamic page of any sort can compete with a straight html page with a focused sell and storyline that promotes a specific sponsor. If they could they would have crowded out straight html pages long ago, because they would be easier to produce in volume.

[DangerDave]

I agree with alot that has been said..

Yep Dravyk, it seems now we have have to do what governments do.. make rules for the lowest common denominator! So now the scammers rule and honest webmasters have to wade thru the shit just to submit something. It's sad really.

With Mr ML 100%... TRUST is the key.. Of the submits I get in a day I have to trawl thru miles of crap looking for the decent ones.. and it is a relief to find one from someone you know and trust.

I have no probs with Banners rotators on galls or sites.

DD

[dareutwo]

I would go so far as to state categorically that no dynamic page of any sort can compete with a straight html page with a focused sell and storyline that promotes a specific sponsor. If they could they would have crowded out straight html pages long ago, because they would be easier to produce in volume.

And the quickest way to create a straight html page like this is???

Test???

[dareutwo]

oopss - 1st paragraph -
"originally posted by Bill" didn't work - my fault

[Bill]

Dare, you do see a fair amount of "script generated pages", straight html thrown together by a gallery creator. Some of the old big time gallery posters have been doing this for a long time. And those pages can obviously make a profit, because month after month, year after year, they are showing up again and again. They're easy to recognize.

I don't see any reason why a clever person couldn't use a gallery generator to make a more modern focused gallery, thats just a design problem.

But the finished product is still your basic html. I've seen a fair number of people come and go who were showing off complex dynamic galleries, with banner rotators, thumbnail rotators, graphic rotators, so that one short page of dynamic script could in theory produce hundreds of distinct galleries.

But they always go, and I don't see their galleries posted at the big TGPS. (Some hosted galleries look dynamic, but I haven't bothered to check to be sure.)