When is it a slam, and when it is a strong suggestion

Pagan · 2009-06-16, 06:22 PM

Over in Greenguy's Link-o-Rama Rejection thread, I had responded to a post from a well-established and fairly long-term webmaster. If you read through the rejection threads here, you will see that this webmaster seems to have a problem with freesite building. My comments to him were NOT a slam on him, or his character, or even his site building abilities. His response to me was quite hostile, though he did immediately apologize for it.

My intent is NOT to start a pissing match here. We ALL make mistakes, even the very best site builder out there. We get distracted or are trying something new and forget to change a bit of code out - it happens to everyone.

Freesite building is NOT for everyone. There are a lot of rules - some seem ridiculously picky and even silly. The rules vary from list to list and you have to be able to read and follow the directions unless you wish to earn rejection letters or blacklisting, or both. When I see a fellow webmaster struggle with even the most basic of required skills (and notice, I am not enumerating them - while they are part of the problem, they are not *THE* issue here)

A lot of struggling webmasters overlook the great tools on this site and a couple of others. I always wish that webmasters who have questions will step up and ask -- either in the newbie thread, via PM, in the chat room (Great tool), or by attending the radio show. I bet a lot of "serious" webmasters don't even subscribe to the newsletter. Like me, this webmaster might have been away from the scene and not aware of all the perks available - do I just shut up or do I mention them.

There are still a number of webmasters who think this is a get-rich-quick industry, and it is far from it. When some struggles as hard as this one has and STILL has very basic problems, you have to ask yourself, do they really have what it takes to be in this industry? While he admits he makes money, his angry response makes me question it.

I suggested a deep soul search. Building freesites is NOT the only way to publicize your paysites. What about galleries? Toplists? Link Exchanges? Blogs? Targeted or Niched Link Lists? Could a webmaster having so much difficulty be spinning his wheels (and wasting time and money plus losing reputation) by trying to focus on building something that is wrong for him?

Mistakes? Oh, yeah... I do make them. I have been building freesites for years and I still make mistakes. I am trying out new techniques or types of sites and I do make mistakes. Just not the same ones over and over again.

My heartfelt advice to ANY and ALL webmasters out there who are struggling -- READ, THINK, ASK for help. Use the tools you have available here. We really don't bite, and our intention is to HELP you improve your product.

Greenguy · 2009-06-16, 08:04 PM

Your reply over there was fine - Mike must've been in a bad mood or something.

MeatPounder · 2009-06-16, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pagan

There are still a number of webmasters who think this is a get-rich-quick industry.

WHAT!!!

It isn't????

Oh OH

Pagan · 2009-06-16, 08:37 PM

Unless you know the right people, throw awesome parties, and/or have lots of minions doing the deed for ya!!

plateman · 2009-06-16, 08:49 PM

I think you was kinda harsh, but fuckem if they can't take a joke

I quit helping people, cause some think they know it all ready

6 months to a year or sooner it's gonna be a dog eat dog world in this biz, it always has been, truth is and many old timers will agree, that there is not enough room at the well for everybody to get a drink

I think your a good cool lady, but you can't worry about if joe blow gets listed on greenie's site, he has plenty of links

SheepGuy · 2009-06-16, 08:52 PM

I know the right people, I throw awesome parties
It's still hard work and I'm still not rich

Minions! That's what I need!!!

Pagan · 2009-06-16, 10:15 PM

I will happily be a minion to either one of you lovely gents. You have all done so much to help webmasters who ask, and I am honored to know you.

bluefluff44 · 2009-06-17, 12:14 AM

I'm still learning how to do free sites. I definitely make mistakes.

So far I've been rejected by link-o-rama for a blind link and vid cap. Though, I'm not purposely trying to cheat anyone. I just don't have complete understanding yet I suppose.

From the perspective of a newbie I can tell you it's a little confusing and overwhelming at times. I'm not upset about it, though. I try to learn from the mistake and not let it happen again.

I don't expect this to be a get rich deal. My approach is that it can be something I don't have to spend 40 hours a week doing, but can eventually make $3-500 a month from. I don't expect those figures to happen soon. I'm kind of hoping by next year.

So far the time consuming part is making the sites. But, once I have a template down updating it with new picture/video sets is pretty darn quick and easy. So If I only submit the same template once per month that just means I need to make 15-30 templates depending on how often I end up submitting.

nate · 2009-06-17, 02:47 AM

The rules that get you rejected but don't exist on the submit page are the only ones that bother me.

nate · 2009-06-17, 02:50 AM

Dan. I'll minion for you. I want in on some of the girls though, and not the fucking sheep.

NY Jester · 2009-06-17, 05:39 AM

OK. Ive been back long enough to get my hand held. Who's ready? heheh

Pagan · 2009-06-17, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Jester

OK. Ive been back long enough to get my hand held. Who's ready? heheh

Hehehe.. I will volunteer for that job without a single question.

Pagan · 2009-06-17, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluefluff44

I'm still learning how to do free sites. I definitely make mistakes.

So far I've been rejected by link-o-rama for a blind link and vid cap. Though, I'm not purposely trying to cheat anyone. I just don't have complete understanding yet I suppose.

From the perspective of a newbie I can tell you it's a little confusing and overwhelming at times. I'm not upset about it, though. I try to learn from the mistake and not let it happen again.

Early on, I made sure I participated with different webmaster groups so that I had a good source of feedback and great information. READ the boards, ASK questions. I can see you do a good amount of question-asking so you are on your way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluefluff44

So far the time consuming part is making the sites. But, once I have a template down updating it with new picture/video sets is pretty darn quick and easy. So If I only submit the same template once per month that just means I need to make 15-30 templates depending on how often I end up submitting.

Just don't limit yourself on the templates. Dare to be different and make each site stand on its own. Think about what your visitors might be looking for. Do they want to see the same thing all the time? What will get the sales going for you? Remember, we are not here just to build pretty sites, but to sell, sell, sell.

Mike-mijen · 2009-06-17, 11:22 AM

Hi Pagan, As I said on my last response I apologize. And that I will make sure that I follow the rules to the "T". As for questioning my money. I actual make my own content and market the individual girls in a partnership with them. I have very unique content as you can not see these girls anywhere else. They a true amateurs. So I photograph, build there sites and market them and many ways. Pic post, purchase traffic, tgps, link list, blogs, mssg boards, etc. There is a affiliate program coming out soon also. So as I truly take your advice seriously. Please do not question the amount of money I make. I feel that is a question no one should ask someone. That's private. I am a single dad raising two kids doing this full time and I support them well.
Mike

HowlingWulf · 2009-06-17, 11:56 AM

I think discussing money can be important. Too many people think this is a get-rich thing on the internet when actually running your own paysite is a lot of hard work and only a small percentage 'hit it big'. Too much work for me, anyway. I'm still trying to break into the 6-figure club as an affiliate. Recession messed me up this year.

Pagan · 2009-06-17, 04:11 PM

Mike, many of the top link lists accept galleries and the rules are quite different. Did you ever think you might be spreading yourself too thin? If you have too much on your plate, mistakes happen. Why not see if there are webmasters that will build freesite or gallery templates for you? You do have my respect for tenaciousness, and as far as raising your kids on your empire earnings, it is all the more vital that you network.

While a lot of my comments are directed to you, Mike, they are also directed to the other webmasters out there. Several of the boards have weekly chats - find out about them and make the time to participate. I will say this - every hour that you spend networking can repay itself 10 fold if not more.

Mike-mijen · 2009-06-17, 04:38 PM

Thank You Pagan. I have trusted the advice from the members of this board more then any other board. The collective brains on this board together is some of the strongest knowledge on what it takes to make this work. Were one is weak there is another who is strong on the subject. all benefiting. A true open source of knowledge. I try to benefit from a balance of many marketing forms to make my sites sale. I do network with folks who are helping me share the load. Yet I will never ever say I know all. The Adult market changes very easy.

Pagan · 2009-06-18, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike-mijen

Thank You Pagan. I have trusted the advice from the members of this board more then any other board. The collective brains on this board together is some of the strongest knowledge on what it takes to make this work. Were one is weak there is another who is strong on the subject. all benefiting. A true open source of knowledge. I try to benefit from a balance of many marketing forms to make my sites sale. I do network with folks who are helping me share the load. Yet I will never ever say I know all. The Adult market changes very easy.

Mike, if you were truly networking, meaning interacting with many other adult webmasters and not just your staff, then you and I would have spoken (or at least typed at each other) in the past or we would have been in the same chats. How many of the webmasters you try to submit to do you know on a first name basis? How many trade shows have you been to?

I am just trying to tell you and others that this forum is great - the knowledge base here is awesome, but you are just about all missing out on some of the most powerful tools of all. Again, not a slam here, just trying very hard to share.

MeatPounder · 2009-06-18, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pagan

I will happily be a minion to either one of you lovely gents. You have all done so much to help webmasters who ask, and I am honored to know you.

I LOVE filet mignon

Mike-mijen · 2009-06-18, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pagan

How many of the webmasters you try to submit to do you know on a first name basis?

A few

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pagan

How many trade shows have you been to?

Can't My daughter is disable. Can't leave her.

2009-06-16, 06:22 PM	#1
Pagan Perverted Empress Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 5,066	When is it a slam, and when it is a strong suggestion Over in Greenguy's Link-o-Rama Rejection thread, I had responded to a post from a well-established and fairly long-term webmaster. If you read through the rejection threads here, you will see that this webmaster seems to have a problem with freesite building. My comments to him were NOT a slam on him, or his character, or even his site building abilities. His response to me was quite hostile, though he did immediately apologize for it. My intent is NOT to start a pissing match here. We ALL make mistakes, even the very best site builder out there. We get distracted or are trying something new and forget to change a bit of code out - it happens to everyone. Freesite building is NOT for everyone. There are a lot of rules - some seem ridiculously picky and even silly. The rules vary from list to list and you have to be able to read and follow the directions unless you wish to earn rejection letters or blacklisting, or both. When I see a fellow webmaster struggle with even the most basic of required skills (and notice, I am not enumerating them - while they are part of the problem, they are not THE issue here) A lot of struggling webmasters overlook the great tools on this site and a couple of others. I always wish that webmasters who have questions will step up and ask -- either in the newbie thread, via PM, in the chat room (Great tool), or by attending the radio show. I bet a lot of "serious" webmasters don't even subscribe to the newsletter. Like me, this webmaster might have been away from the scene and not aware of all the perks available - do I just shut up or do I mention them. There are still a number of webmasters who think this is a get-rich-quick industry, and it is far from it. When some struggles as hard as this one has and STILL has very basic problems, you have to ask yourself, do they really have what it takes to be in this industry? While he admits he makes money, his angry response makes me question it. I suggested a deep soul search. Building freesites is NOT the only way to publicize your paysites. What about galleries? Toplists? Link Exchanges? Blogs? Targeted or Niched Link Lists? Could a webmaster having so much difficulty be spinning his wheels (and wasting time and money plus losing reputation) by trying to focus on building something that is wrong for him? Mistakes? Oh, yeah... I do make them. I have been building freesites for years and I still make mistakes. I am trying out new techniques or types of sites and I do make mistakes. Just not the same ones over and over again. My heartfelt advice to ANY and ALL webmasters out there who are struggling -- READ, THINK, ASK for help. Use the tools you have available here. We really don't bite, and our intention is to HELP you improve your product. __________________ Is it naptime yet?

2009-06-16, 08:04 PM	#2
Greenguy The Original Greenguy (Est'd 1996) & AVN HOF Member - I Crop Pics For Thumbs In My Sleep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Blasdell, NY (shithole suburb south of Buffalo) Posts: 41,929	Your reply over there was fine - Mike must've been in a bad mood or something. __________________ Promote POV Porn Cash By Building & Submitting Galleries to the Porn Luv Network

2009-06-16, 08:37 PM	#4
Pagan Perverted Empress Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 5,066	Unless you know the right people, throw awesome parties, and/or have lots of minions doing the deed for ya!! __________________ Is it naptime yet?

2009-06-16, 08:49 PM	#5
plateman What can I do - I was born this way LOL Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ohio Posts: 3,086	I think you was kinda harsh, but fuckem if they can't take a joke I quit helping people, cause some think they know it all ready 6 months to a year or sooner it's gonna be a dog eat dog world in this biz, it always has been, truth is and many old timers will agree, that there is not enough room at the well for everybody to get a drink I think your a good cool lady, but you can't worry about if joe blow gets listed on greenie's site, he has plenty of links __________________ Submit to: Porn O Plenty XXX Links Reality Here Last edited by plateman; 2009-06-16 at 08:52 PM..

2009-06-16, 08:52 PM	#6
SheepGuy It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,527	I know the right people, I throw awesome parties It's still hard work and I'm still not rich Minions! That's what I need!!! __________________ If the Environment was a bank, they would have saved it by now.

2009-06-16, 10:15 PM	#7
Pagan Perverted Empress Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 5,066	I will happily be a minion to either one of you lovely gents. You have all done so much to help webmasters who ask, and I am honored to know you. __________________ Is it naptime yet? Last edited by Pagan; 2009-06-16 at 10:21 PM.. Reason: Where is my English tonight????

2009-06-17, 12:14 AM	#8
bluefluff44 Rock stars ... is there anything they don't know? Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 19	I'm still learning how to do free sites. I definitely make mistakes. So far I've been rejected by link-o-rama for a blind link and vid cap. Though, I'm not purposely trying to cheat anyone. I just don't have complete understanding yet I suppose. From the perspective of a newbie I can tell you it's a little confusing and overwhelming at times. I'm not upset about it, though. I try to learn from the mistake and not let it happen again. I don't expect this to be a get rich deal. My approach is that it can be something I don't have to spend 40 hours a week doing, but can eventually make $3-500 a month from. I don't expect those figures to happen soon. I'm kind of hoping by next year. So far the time consuming part is making the sites. But, once I have a template down updating it with new picture/video sets is pretty darn quick and easy. So If I only submit the same template once per month that just means I need to make 15-30 templates depending on how often I end up submitting.

2009-06-17, 02:47 AM	#9
nate I can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Merica! Posts: 543	The rules that get you rejected but don't exist on the submit page are the only ones that bother me. __________________ Its just a jump to the left.

2009-06-17, 02:50 AM	#10
nate I can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Merica! Posts: 543	Dan. I'll minion for you. I want in on some of the girls though, and not the fucking sheep. __________________ Its just a jump to the left.

2009-06-17, 05:39 AM	#11
NY Jester ICQ:147079406 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: RockMEHardplace Posts: 2,996	OK. Ive been back long enough to get my hand held. Who's ready? heheh __________________ The Sexy Side of Porn

2009-06-17, 11:22 AM	#14
Mike-mijen What do you mean, my birth certificate expired? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fla Posts: 995	"While he admits he makes money, his angry response makes me question it." Hi Pagan, As I said on my last response I apologize. And that I will make sure that I follow the rules to the "T". As for questioning my money. I actual make my own content and market the individual girls in a partnership with them. I have very unique content as you can not see these girls anywhere else. They a true amateurs. So I photograph, build there sites and market them and many ways. Pic post, purchase traffic, tgps, link list, blogs, mssg boards, etc. There is a affiliate program coming out soon also. So as I truly take your advice seriously. Please do not question the amount of money I make. I feel that is a question no one should ask someone. That's private. I am a single dad raising two kids doing this full time and I support them well. Mike

2009-06-17, 11:56 AM	#15
HowlingWulf Me fail English? That's unpossible! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: FL Posts: 1,381	I think discussing money can be important. Too many people think this is a get-rich thing on the internet when actually running your own paysite is a lot of hard work and only a small percentage 'hit it big'. Too much work for me, anyway. I'm still trying to break into the 6-figure club as an affiliate. Recession messed me up this year. __________________ WordPress Porn directory theme => Maddos Create a Porn Tube => Video Pornster

2009-06-17, 04:11 PM	#16
Pagan Perverted Empress Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 5,066	Mike, many of the top link lists accept galleries and the rules are quite different. Did you ever think you might be spreading yourself too thin? If you have too much on your plate, mistakes happen. Why not see if there are webmasters that will build freesite or gallery templates for you? You do have my respect for tenaciousness, and as far as raising your kids on your empire earnings, it is all the more vital that you network. While a lot of my comments are directed to you, Mike, they are also directed to the other webmasters out there. Several of the boards have weekly chats - find out about them and make the time to participate. I will say this - every hour that you spend networking can repay itself 10 fold if not more. __________________ Is it naptime yet?

2009-06-17, 04:38 PM	#17
Mike-mijen What do you mean, my birth certificate expired? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fla Posts: 995	Thank You Pagan. I have trusted the advice from the members of this board more then any other board. The collective brains on this board together is some of the strongest knowledge on what it takes to make this work. Were one is weak there is another who is strong on the subject. all benefiting. A true open source of knowledge. I try to benefit from a balance of many marketing forms to make my sites sale. I do network with folks who are helping me share the load. Yet I will never ever say I know all. The Adult market changes very easy. Last edited by Mike-mijen; 2009-06-17 at 04:47 PM..