Honest Opinions On Potential In This Business after '99

[babymaker]

Hi, just a very honest question from i guess you could call me an advanced newbie, doing ok and been around a lil' while but definatley not a pro yet. And have learned a lot. what my question is basically is this? Is it possible to make a serious say middle-class living in this business at this point, or would you have to have been around in '96-99. I am definatley going to continue since i like it, but even though now i am converting regularly i really dont see being able to do this full-time and live on it. are there people who came around after the '96-99 era that have done real well, or are we relegated to doing this as just a part-time money making hobby? i would love some honest opinions, i realize this could look like a criticizm or something but it is a serious question. i am really just curious since i know there are some great webmasters on this board. Thanx, for any input. ps i luv the santa gif hehehe!

[GeorgeTH]

My own experience:
· nothing was ever as good again as pre-0911 (twothousandandone that is!) - but that's me! O.k. things recovered, but in my case to around 70% of what it was pre-0911...
· the adult world now, 2003, seems to be devided into 'traffic-haves' and 'traffic-have-nots' - very few manage these days to make a serious impact without help from some 'traffic-haves'
· more and more free traffic sources (like link lists and tgps) are shutting their doors - thank the Russians (and other!) cheaters for that, and the sponsors of course supporting it with 'hosted galleries'

= in short: if you don't have a foot in the door I personally would not recommend to any newbie to start now and hope to make a decent living of it unless you're you have money to invest and are willing to buy traffic from the 'traffic-haves', or you're living in Central Africa or a similar really low-income zone...

I have never seen this many people give up and drop out as during the last 4 months! Does that tell you something?

[urb]

Anything can and will happen.

Hard work and planning can achieve anything.

Try to develop at least 4 unrelated income streams. If you take a hit on 1 then the other 3 need to be enough to keep you going while you replace the 1 you lost.

I make 100% of my income online because I have no other choice.

[Ramster]

Sure you can make a full time living. But George hit it right on the head. Without either relations or money it is very hard for a newbie to do it. Link lists and working search engines would be the easiest way. Many TGPs are closed to newbies so buying spots would be the way to do that but most newbies do not know how to convert TGP traffic.

The bottom line is a newbie is looking at a year minimum to learn the ins and outs (I think) before he or she can start making full time money of at least $5K a month to live on.

I started about 3.5 years ago so in 2000 and make fulltime money no problem and have been full time for just over a year now.

[rick69]

I've been in the business around 6 month so im a newbie, now I make around around 40$/day....

That's not big money, but it's parttime, I own a nonadult company as well and study full time..

However, maybe I'm not the right person to answer your questions, but I wanted to say something =)

I think, like in any business, it's always possible to earn good money, there's always room for improvements and it maybe just takes 1 good idea to put you ahead of your competitors.

I'm convinced that it does exist great business oppurtunities in this business, cause ppl will always be horny and prolly always have a creditcard =)

Prolly the most reasonable thing is to keep your day-job before you see good money rolling in from the adult biz.

[Boogie]

With enough time investment, a good solid money investment (doesnt have to be huge or anything) and a good plan I think anyone can make it.

I know a few folks that got started after 2001 and are doing great. The way they do it is thinking outside the box.

It takes a pretty solid innovater, who can look at the whole grand scheme and figure out a solid plan that _no one_ else is doing right now, before you can make it happen.

If you're just doing what every other new kid on the block is doing, no, its going to be rough.

I would say that the truly dedicated and intelligent person with the right set of innovative ideas could go from zero to 20k a month within a year.

[babymaker]

thanx,! i am doing pretty good and try a lot of different things, and gave up on sleep hehe. part-time in this business seems to be 12 hours a day plus a day job lol. luckly my day job i am basically self-employed and well known for what i do so i can work sometimes later etc, no real set schedule as long as i get my work done. Well, i have only been doing the adult business serious since may of this year and i am moving quick, but the answers are pretty encouraging. i don't even need 20k a month or 5 3k+ would be ok with some side-lines. and overall i convert at least once a day, sometimes none for a few and then a bunch in one day, but it seems to be getting more regular and never a surprise anymore, more like i can predict it and sort of assume a certain amount per month. i guess i am just at the level were i feel stuck and am trying to get to the next level but it hasen't even been a year, so i am definatley in for the long haul. i never saw it as a get rich quick scheme lol. i real did extremely well at yahoo building and promoting my groups which gave me the idea to make money at it and then i started researching and building. it definatley does seem to pay to try new things i have been doing a lot of crazy one-page wonders and capitalizing off the news this past few weeks and sales are much better than the standard 4-page free site routine. but i am gonna build some more of thoose. shit i am going on to long hehe|rasta| anyway thanx for the input!

[Extreme John]

Hey everyone, hope everyone had an excellent Turkey Day.

Well bay maker, I wasnt around until early '99 so I really cannot compare my existance on the web to prior existance, but what I can say is that when I worked for Home Depot a long time ago, everyone said the stock had seen it's hay day, "Those were the days", "Remember when", and one of my managers said, "Thats a bunch of crap, the time is now and the future will only be better" now im sure that cant be said for everything, but I will say that he was right, the $54 a share everyone boasted aboout and the 3 for 2 and 2 for 1 stock splits, hadnt all gone away, I saw plenty and made plenty from it. Everyone in most business will tell you "Those were the days", hell I heard it getting into this in '99, needless to say I did what I always do, worked extremely hard, put 130% into it, took chances, risks and dealt with some of the terrible times like 911 and a few others, I still do pretty good for myself, im not the bragging type, and honestly all that matters to me is that my family is fed, bills are paid and I can enjoy some of the extra "Bonus's" of life.

There's plenty of money to be made, as long as your willing to work for it.

[Fisty Palmer]

Porn is the most searched for topic online. In other words, there's tons of traffic looking for sex. With those kind of numbers I think this area of commerce is wide open for potential newcomers, and there's plenty of income to go around.

But I do agree that a unique approach is your key to success. But that's true in any field.

I'm just a newbie in the adult side of things, but I have dabbled with non-adult affiliate income for awhile now, and know there's unlimited opportunities there.

What I'm essentially doing is broadening my scope. I currently own 50 non-adult domains and have a system in place for building affiliate income from all of them. It's slow in coming but I can see a faint glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.

As for adult sites, I wanted to diversify my income stream, and decided a couple adult sites might just be the ticket. I'm also smart enough to know that you don't want all of your eggs in one basket. The only problem is I'm finding the adult side to be kind of fun, and I find myself creating a large content site that's taking a lot of time to complete. But on the positive side, I think it'll be a site I'll enjoy working with, and that's key to me. Plus, many of the people I've read about in the adult industry seem to be good-hearted souls. That's nice to know.

So overall, the plan is to have my foot in both the adult and non-adult industry. Of course, the trick is burning the candle at both ends. But wih proper planning I think I can pull if off.

So in a nutshell: diversify.

Fisty
|rasta|

[babymaker]

funny i am doing just the opposite but the same, diversifiying my adult with some non-adult cj.com has some incredible sponsors and payouts and i figured why not. i just did a basic x-mas site with a bunch of stuff for my groups and forum and will add to my exit links tommorow. i always hear diveresity is the key from alot in this business from niche to free-site avs etc so i figured why not a few non-adult. anyone know of a good non-adult webmaster board as good as this or ANS were u can get a good idea on things. i am curious as to what to use for free non-adult sites content wise. i see jokes and newsfeeds and stuff but yahoo msn, etc do that better, wondering what people build.........and ps thanx for all the responses to this question. it is nice to see it is still possible! i am definatley growing every month not going backwards so i am hopefull, just need to make the next big jump.

[Alphawolf]

Originally posted by Extreme John
Hey everyone, hope everyone had an excellent Turkey Day.

<snip>...hell I heard it getting into this in '99, needless to say I did what I always do, worked extremely hard, put 130% into it, took chances, risks and dealt with some of the terrible times like 911 and a few others, I still do pretty good for myself, im not the bragging type, and honestly all that matters to me is that my family is fed, bills are paid and I can enjoy some of the extra "Bonus's" of life.

There's plenty of money to be made, as long as your willing to work for it.

Great post Extreme John.

I think one needs to do their research and still be prepared to fail- then adapt as needed.

[Tommy]

Maybe john is right. We should give up the adult buisness and play the stock market

I think Home Depot is a really good buy right now and its hay day is coming,

They got stores every 10 miles all across the united states and the stock is only in the mid thirties

[Extreme John]

Originally posted by Tommy
Maybe john is right. We should give up the adult buisness and play the stock market

I think Home Depot is a really good buy right now and its hay day is coming,

They got stores every 10 miles all across the united states and the stock is only in the mid thirties

Tommy I hope thats not what you think I said at all??? I am a firm believer that under the current Corop. mgmt structure the Home Depot stock may never perform like it had in the past. Not to mention im hardly the stock market guru by all means, I bought a few shares of a few things that happened to make me a few bucks, nothing major thats for sure. I was aiming at the analogy of it more than anything.

|rasta|

[Jim]

Here is the big difference between 96 and now...
In 1996, for every 100 hits to my free site, I made about $1 consistently. My free site was getting about 10k hits/day with very little daily work involved. I changed 10 pictures each week. But that was it...

That was before paid for performance was introduced by Cybererotica. This was probably one of the biggest and best innovations introduced to this business. If programs kept paying just for raw traffic, none would still be around.

In 1996, by far...Cybererotica was the best program out there. Changes came about because people could not stay honest. Fantasyman (Ron) made the mistake of thinking webmasters would be honest. Most of us thought webmasters would be honest back then...too bad we were wrong.

Here in 2003, how many hits to a free site does it take to make $1?

[Bake]

I think the big diference is that in 97 when I started you didnt have to work hard or even clever to make money just 12 thumbs in a square table and 2 banners on a gallery was enough to make $200 a day even on free hosting. Now if I had the skills I have now back then I could have allready retired. Back then having 100k to a gallery was a huge thing now If dont have 500k Im pissed.

[Kush]

Originally posted by Jim
Here in 2003, how many hits to a free site does it take to make $1?

Heh, for the most part, a lot more than 100!

[xxxjay]

It's been said many times before:

Adult Webmastering is not a job for the lazy.

You must be prepared to dump a lot of hours into it and be ready to overcome unexpected dissapointmnets / disasters.

[Jim]

xxxjay
You are singing to the choir with me. I could have retired if I wasn't screwed. Let me figure this out... We were open for almost 3 years with an average of 3500 signups/day. We closed the program with over 800,000 members recurring at 39.95/month. 20% of that was legally mine and I never saw a penny. I wonder how much besides the original $2million stolen from me would have been. Without having to pay webmasters since the program was closed for unknown reasons.

Sounds like retirement money to me But, I came through the bumps and bruises thanks to Greenguy slapping me around and here I am again. Making a steady honest living but never being rich.

I really don't know of anyone that has been screwed as bad as I have been. And yet...I am still here

On a side note, rumors have it that my ex-partner, theif, had some problems trying to move money offshore. Canada Revenue took his home and everything he owned. His wife left him and he is sharing a dorm room with a friend. He screwed his hosting company and EPOCH stopped processing recurring funds so, as far as I can see...he is broke. And unless he changes his name, will never enter this business again.

Read what I am talking about HERE

I guess I am in that type of mood today

[SirMoby]

I started in May of 2001 and I'm still full time. There may have been a time when the money was free but that was long ago.

There was a time when having .COM in your corporate name meant venture captial was automatic but now you have to work for it. You still see new Internet ocmpanies don't you?

Just because you have to work for it does that mean that it isn't there?

[Alphawolf]

Jim,

Just read your story of events. Man, does that suck.

I am wondering though- you must have had written contracts or some sort of legal binding regarding such high figures.

Perhaps not?

In retrospect, what would you have done differently?

[Surfn]

There's plenty of money to make in this biz if you don't get greedy and screw people like Jim was screwed.

Glad to hear your expartner got a small dose of what he deseves Jim

[SirMoby]

Originally posted by Tommy
Maybe john is right. We should give up the adult buisness and play the stock market

I think Home Depot is a really good buy right now and its hay day is coming,

They got stores every 10 miles all across the united states and the stock is only in the mid thirties

I'll play the stock market again but I can't seem to find Tommy's Bookmarks or Link-O-Rama on any exchange

[Jim]

Originally posted by Alphawolf
Jim,

Just read your story of events. Man, does that suck.

I am wondering though- you must have had written contracts or some sort of legal binding regarding such high figures.

Perhaps not?

In retrospect, what would you have done differently?

All monies were moved and the corporation desolved and if you read the story, you will see I had no choice but to sign a document that said he no longer owed me money.

[Alphawolf]

Jim,

Ah- yeah. I'm on a muscle relaxer and it relaxes my brain as well as my muscles.

So, what is the lesson to be learned in your situation? When you're caught between a rock and an asshole the only thing that can come out is shit?

Pretty amazing you could let that go so long. Did you ever meet that guy in real life or was it all via E-mail and phone interaction?

Great fortitude to come out swinging again after such a hard blow financialy and spirit wise.

[Extreme John]

Thats for sure, Jim is a whole new level of Human Being, lord knows I would have taken a jail stint, my anger would have gotten too out of control for me to handle.