Heaps of recips

[Dave S]

A question really for the big guys, but everyones opinion is appriciated.

Is this cool or uncool.

I buy a set of content and make a free site from it as normal with say 3 or 4 mirrors of the site with 8 recips on the index page of each mirror and submit them to the smaller link lists as usual.

Then, using the same content I make a new freesite, with totally different layout and text on all 4 pages. The the index page though I put my biggest link lists recips, but probably either 32 or 40 recips on this page.

Would any of the major LLs reject for that or do they prefer it?

[Greenguy]

32-40 recips on a page is way too many IMHO.

[Dave S]

Right ok. I guess that's that idea down the pan then

My thought was that with the page being unique it would hold more value with google, and therefore the recips would be of more SE value een though they would send less traffic.

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

32-40 recips on a page is way too many IMHO.

That is fine for sites like yours who accept multiple gateways, but what about sites who insist on being on the main index page (i.e. index.html not index 32.html)? There is more than a few of these, and you either have to say "fuck off" to the majority of LLs with this rule, or have a large number of LLs on your index page.

As a rule I work on the theory that (and I so know I am going to get an abusive reply from Surfin for posting this):

LL owners who allow multiple gateways (index1.html, index2.html, index3.html etc.) are hoping to get traffic from surfers who come to that site from other link lists (fair exchange of traffic).

LL owners who want to be on the main index page (index.html not index 32.html) and allow lots of recips on that page want to improve their Google PR (also fair).

LL owners who want to be on the main index page (index.html not index 32.html) but do NOT allow lots of recips on that page, are greedy bastards who want everything and are trying to get more than their fair share of traffic.

Oh and my absolute favourite are those who insist on being on the main index page with no more than 11 other recips, and also insist that the 11 other include sites like Greenguy, Richard, Tommy, etc. For them I am sure there is a level of hell even below the one where the daemons use ice.

[Surfn]

ecchi

Since you are neither one of my partners nor my friends I will never see a submit from you, therefore you can spew all the you like.

Have a nice day

[guestcam]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

32-40 recips on a page is way too many IMHO.

By chance is there any place on the web where LLs are listed and GROUPED by the number of fellow recips they like to have on the page you place them on?

THAT, IMHO, would be a killer assest to have.

H

[MrYum]

Originally Posted by guestcam

By chance is there any place on the web where LLs are listed and GROUPED by the number of fellow recips they like to have on the page you place them on?

THAT, IMHO, would be a killer assest to have.

H

Not that I'm aware of Guest. But, as long as you follow the general rules...you'll get listed at the majority of the big sites

I doubt that you'll find any sites that are willing to accept pages with 30+ recips on them...if for no other reason than they look like crap. When I was building free sites, I used 16 custom recips per page and they looked nice n tight...got accepted everywhere submitted. I mirrored all the html pages in 3 different folders...altering the text on each page to avoid dup page issues with the se's...so I could submit to my top 48 referrers. I've seen sites with as many as 20 custom recips on a page that looked good. A simply solution...every link site gets a true index page...no se issues...it's all good

Anything more than 20 though and I think you're going to hit problems. And make sure those 20 look nice n clean.

[Preacher]

Just to re-enforce what MrYum said, custom recips are key to having a good deal of recips and making them look good!

Seen many good sites with custom recips with 18-21 recips on them.

-Preacher

[guestcam]

Originally Posted by ecchi

.......LL owners who want to be on the main index page (index.html not index 32.html) but do NOT allow lots of recips on that page, ..........

Assuming that you dont mean they want on THE index page of the domains root, ie domain.com/index.html, then you can obey their rules and tend to YOUR needs as well. You create new directories and for those particular LL owners that insist on index.html and only x amount of links, THATS their page

now if you ARE talking about LL's saying give me domain.com/index.html, or if a LL owner just isnt happy with getting a unique folder (for god knows WHAT reason ) you just might be right about the assessment you made.........

Rules to ensure ones profits (like you stick to the niche of the LL, you accurately describe your site, not putting the LL's recip 20 rows down at number 44 recip) those are legit rules, as are rules to keep ones butt outta jail or civil court. those a webmaster should obey or else find another LL.

But Rules for the sake of "I'm in charge and I say so", I personally dont have time for that. People with that much anger are not good to deal with online or off. I can go back to a regular day job and get a boss like that anytime I want............

anyway, you might try the directory/index.html method and see how many LL owners are satisfied you are sticking to their rules.

[Linkster]

Interesting thread - a little thought that keeps running through my head - those that require their recip to be on an index.html page are never the largest traffic LLs nor are they listed very well in the SEs - I wonder why that is?
If everyone could fall in line with GGs/Richards and Tommys rules (and I guess mine) then they should be able to get accepted anywhere - and I dont think any of us require a certain page other than to say that it would be "disrespectful" to put GGs recip on index321.html

[Xeno]

30 to 40 recips ....damn...lol...thats more work than building the site itself! Anyways, here is one suggestion: With your mirrors and recips, try to balance and spread out an even mix of big LLs and directories with the smaller ones. Example: You have 12 big LLs..and you make 4 mirrors and plan to put 6 recips on each. Put 3 bigger recips with 3 smaller ones on each one. Reason --> it builds a good network of traffic with everyone (including yourself), it helps build up the smaller guys which in-turn will benefit you over time, plus several more benefits. In a nutshell, you want to maximize your traffic across "ALL" of your mirrors. Just don't go crazy with mirrors, and as for recips, I personally think a max of 12 (or less) is good per mirror unless you are using only text links (not text banners).

Don't forget to do some search engine optimization as well...you will thank yourself later for this.

[Dave S]

Originally Posted by NetGoonie

Don't forget to do some search engine optimization as well...you will thank yourself later for this.

Well, that was kinda my idea behind 30-40 recips on one page. The way I see it is this, and I apologise if it's a simplistic view but I'm a still a bit of a newbie.

Most linklists want the SE value of recips right? Surely that is more important that the visitors they get from the index page.

If that bit is correct then it's better if they are linked from a unique page because google penalises heavily for duplicate content. If I make a unique freesite it should get a better page rank and therefore the linklists on my index should get more benefit from being linked to from it.

In addition to that, if I put 40 recips on a page and submit to 40 linklists then I have more incoming links to that one page and therefore the page is going to have its page ranke infalted even more (although some incoming links will be wasted if they use a trade script or "out" script)

So the linklists still have as many freesites linking to them but they all have higher page rank. Only downside is that they lose some of the clicks from surfers of other linklists.

OK, i'm ready for someone to point out the fatal flaw now

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by Dave S

Most linklists want the SE value of recips right? Surely that is more important that the visitors they get from the index page.

If I make a unique freesite it should get a better page rank and therefore the linklists on my index should get more benefit from being linked to from it.


OK, i'm ready for someone to point out the fatal flaw now

OK - here ya go - First off - most LLs(and submitters) misunderstand the SE value of recips - there isnt any unless the page submitted has its own outside linking generating page rank to that linked page.

Where does the submitted warning page get its page rank? From the LLs linking to it obviously - so by linking to your warning page I am generating the page rank for you - only to have you pass it back to me at a reduced value as it is now shared between 12 LLS.

Now increase that split on the shared page rank to 40 - not a winning solution

More important is that you would think along the lines of making each "mirror" of the free site unique enough to avoid any duplication penalty - and most impotant - most older LLs know that there is little - if any SE value in recip linking from free sites - we already have traffic/link trades with the LLs you are submitting to so we arent going to get any more value from your free site - most of us that have been around for a while realized a long time ago that we need the submitters free site for content and we trade traffic to your site for it - end of story

[Dave S]

Ah well, thanks for the explanation, I knew there would be a problem in my logic somewhere.

I guess the key is to vary the text from mirror to mirror so they are not identical then.

There's another great plan of mine down the drain.

[guestcam]

Originally Posted by Dave S

Ah well, thanks for the explanation, I knew there would be a problem in my logic somewhere.

I guess the key is to vary the text from mirror to mirror so they are not identical then.

There's another great plan of mine down the drain.

nah not down the drain. You use SSI and have your mirrors use file1.html (or shtml), file2, fileN, etc

If you do your part on the mirrors to not be a ding from the se's then the LL owners might be more inclined to not mind your links.

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by guestcam

You use SSI and have your mirrors use file1.html (or shtml), file2, fileN, etc

Unfortunately quite a few LLs will not allow SSI on sites that they link to.

[LowryBigwood]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Where does the submitted warning page get its page rank? From the LLs linking to it obviously - so by linking to your warning page I am generating the page rank for you - only to have you pass it back to me at a reduced value as it is now shared between 12 LLS.

Now increase that split on the shared page rank to 40 - not a winning solution

I'm a little confused, could be cause i just ripped . But anyhow, I dont understand why as an LL owner, we would care about getting the pagerank back from the freesite, whether it be shared among 12 or 40 other LLs. Isn't the trade for the use of the submitters content? Granted, 40 recips is way too many IMHO.

But isn't the freesite getting a share of pagerank from all the other sites listed on your LL page? Could be sharing with hundreds of freesites. So, howmuch pagerank is really going into each freesite, and what is coming back?

Maybe I should put the bong down. But I consistenly build my freesites with 16-24 recips.

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by LowryBigwood

But anyhow, I dont understand why as an LL owner, we would care about getting the pagerank back from the freesite, whether it be shared among 12 or 40 other LLs. Isn't the trade for the use of the submitters content?
But isn't the freesite getting a share of pagerank from all the other sites listed on your LL page? Could be sharing with hundreds of freesites. So, howmuch pagerank is really going into each freesite, and what is coming back?

Yes - you are correct which is why I said basically the same thing in the last paragraph above Most of us could care less about the small amount of page rank (again if any) from free sites Its all about the content and traffic trade.

ecchi - I dont think LLs would even know one way or another if you were using SSI as thats on your server and never appears on your displayed pages - as long as youre not doing anything out of the ordinary

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by Linkster

ecchi - I dont think LLs would even know one way or another if you were using SSI as thats on your server and never appears on your displayed pages - as long as youre not doing anything out of the ordinary

That was exactly my thought, but then I thought...maybe there's some way to tell that I don't know about. I'd better keep my blasphemous mouth shut. So I did.

[MrYum]

Yep, ssi is server side...the end browser should never even know it's there. A slow/overworked server serving up the calls too slowly may be about the only hiccup.

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by Linkster

ecchi - I dont think LLs would even know one way or another if you were using SSI as thats on your server and never appears on your displayed pages

Because instead of index.html the page would be called index.shtml or index.php. Although you could submit without the file name (i.e "www.porno.com/lesbians/" instead of "www.porno.com/lesbians/index.shtml") any sensible webmaster with a "no SSI" rule will check you are not trying to get round this rule by loading the site with the file name .html or .htm.
.

[DutchGuy]

Not really Ecchi,

You can configure your server to also parse .htm and .html or really any file you want.

So even a htm file can have SSI enabled.

[Dave S]

Do many link lists have a no SSI rule? Sounds like a good way of doing it. To be honest I'm only interested in giving my freesites a little more SE traffic. It's probably an advantage to the LLs really because the sites would be of a higher quality as I would spend more timew on them and include some text stories or other text for the surfeer to read

[MrYum]

I don't recall ever seeing a link site with a rule specifically prohibiting use of ssi calls. The only thing I'm aware of that could bite you in the ass is if you have a slow server/host and the includes pull in too slowly. But then if your hosting is that slow, you're probably going to have issues getting accepted anyway.

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by MrYum

I don't recall ever seeing a link site with a rule specifically prohibiting use of ssi calls. The only thing I'm aware of that could bite you in the ass is if you have a slow server/host and the includes pull in too slowly. But then if your hosting is that slow, you're probably going to have issues getting accepted anyway.

Ditto