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2005-04-07, 11:46 PM
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#1 |
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Took the hint.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,597
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Xbiz promoting newsgroup reseller?
Latest xbiz news has a big ad on the top for http://www.eroticusenet.com - a service reselling access to "filtered" newsgroups.
Isn't this just real close to reselling copyrighted material without a license? How can they be sure that all the content is legal? Alex |
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2005-04-08, 12:44 AM
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#2 |
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Are you sure this is the Sci-Fi Convention? It's full of nerds!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 263
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Sounds like a similar thing to GUBA.
And GUBA technicaly is just software, that allows end users to search for content in usenet groups, but not actualy being a provider. Another grey area by the sounds of it. -N
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The afp ownz all your base. |
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2005-04-08, 01:17 AM
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#3 |
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Took the hint.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,597
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It's pretty grey until you start re-selling the content, which is what this appears to do. I can assure you 100% that this isn't 2257 compliant, which would be a requirement for a secondary supplier - either you know who has the 2257 records or you have them yourself.
It's grey - so why would xbiz touch it and take their money? Alex |
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2005-04-08, 01:43 AM
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#4 |
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Are you sure this is the Sci-Fi Convention? It's full of nerds!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 263
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Does Xbiz have a disclaimer on their website saying that in no way are they responsible for the content or maner a program is run. In any clients payed campaigns?
That would be a way to get aound it. Or maybe Xbiz arn't aware of how the program operates? -N
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The afp ownz all your base. |
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2005-04-08, 02:15 AM
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#5 |
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A boy without mischief is like a bowling ball without a liquid center
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 437
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very unsafe IMO.
Its an understatement to say 'some' of it is not legal/2257, i would bet the almost half if not more is. Think of all the sponsor pics posted on that, they are basically making money off of other paysites and sponsors work, arent they? Lets just say I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole if I were a sponsor.
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Mom, I'm done! Come wipe! |
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2005-04-08, 03:00 AM
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#6 |
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Took the hint.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,597
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that is what i don't understand - I saw it and I knew what it was right away. How can Xbiz figure that this is a good thing, something worth taking ad dollars from?
Alex |
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2005-04-18, 03:13 PM
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#7 |
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Rock stars ... is there anything they don't know?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 14
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An Opinion for Webmasters / Usenet & 2257
Hi,
We promoted our EroticUsenet service in the XBiz newsletter recently, which generated some incorrect statements from a couple of folks within the Greenguy & Jim message board. In response to that discussion thread, we'd like to make 3 points: 1) Usenet newsgroups predate the Internet, and they are provided by Telco, ISP, government, university, and corporate news servers worldwide. We receive over 2 million newsgroup postings a day, and during the 12 years that we've operated our Usenet service, we have not been involved in any legal matters related to 2257. If interested, I've included our complete 2257 policy statement at the end of this message 2) Generally speaking, the Usenet / 2257 discussion is usually originated by a handful of adult service providers who feel their home territory is being threatened. Rather than educate adult webmasters and developers about how Usenet can benefit their businesses, some providers seek to stifle competition by making negative comments about Usenet that are simply untrue & uninformed. 3) In regards to XBiz / Gigacash, they need to decide if they are in the business of selling advertising space or selling competing adult products & services... trying to juggle both, creates a clear conflict of interest. We appreciate the opportunity to correct some of the earlier misstatements, and if there are any questions about this topic, please feel free to contact us. Best regards, Joe D'Alessandro EroticUsenet.Com (T) 408-720-7620 / 1-866-487-3638 (E) info@eroticusenet.com ### Our 2257 statement: 18 U.S.C. Section 2257compliance does not apply to Usenet services of any type, from any provider, including those operating on government servers, corporate servers, universities, every major Telco and the tens of thousands of commercial Usenet services operating worldwide on the Internet. Usenet is a protocol or conveyance, designed to propagate millions of daily messages across virtually all Usenet services, Erotic Usenet is not a content originator, so there is no content to pledge as child pornography free. The analogy is an International phone company attempting to censor the contents of every phone conversation that takes place on its network. This does not mean we do not contribute to barring the presence of child pornography from Usenet. Erotic Usenet will not maintain a business relationship with any entity or individual responsible for posting child pornography through Erotic Usenet, or maintains such material as a component of their service. In addition, we will seek to block or filter originating points of this material, including discontinuing peering relationships with services that do propagate child pornography. Erotic Usenet maintains an outbound stream of "cancel messages" to cooperative services that removes material of this type as discovered, not only on Erotic Usenet systems, but participating services as well. Erotic Usenet actively assists law enforcement in child pornography investigations. Erotic Usenet maintains a system for customers to report to us any infractions of policy regarding child pornography and addresses reports expeditiously. |
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2005-04-18, 03:22 PM
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#8 |
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Certified Nice Person
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dirty Undies, NY
Posts: 11,268
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I always thought the purpose of 2257 was the prevention of child and other illegal types of pornography. Never read the part where the regulation states 'just wait till it happens, then pull it'.
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Click here to purchase a bridge I'm selling. |
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2005-04-18, 04:45 PM
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#9 | |
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Shut up brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 114
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Quote:
If Usenet providers should have to act as primary or secondary producers for all adult content that passes through their servers, then the same should apply to all ISPs, e-mail providers, hosting companies, and telcos. |
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2005-04-18, 06:25 PM
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#10 |
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Internet! Is that thing still around?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4
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3) In regards to XBiz / Gigacash, they need to decide if they are in the business of selling advertising space or selling competing adult products & services... trying to juggle both, creates a clear conflict of interest. (QUOTE)
UMMM GigaCash is an AFFILIATE PROGRAM, XBiz is a PU-BLI-CA-TION and NEWS SOURCE. Both companies are run seperately. Competing products and services???? You are kidding right, conflict of interest? NOT AT ALL.....Take a look at our advertisers why would we have the top ten AFFILIATE programs advertising with XBiz if I VP of GIGACASH an AFFILIATE PROGRAM was worried about competing products and services. It is too bad about this thread I called and tried to speak with you privately about your product Joe and our concerns regarding the exposure to XBiz and then you take it to the boards???
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Please Re-Read The Rules For Sig Files |
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2005-04-18, 06:34 PM
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#11 |
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The Original Greenguy (Est'd 1996) & AVN HOF Member - I Crop Pics For Thumbs In My Sleep
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blasdell, NY (shithole suburb south of Buffalo)
Posts: 41,929
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I do have 2 questions:
1 - what happens when there is an image in question as far as the age of the model? 2 - who do content producers contact when they see their unlicensed images on your site? |
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2005-04-18, 07:21 PM
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#12 |
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Took the hint.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,597
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The problem comes when you cross the line from providing access to the newsgroups and providing filtered / selective newsgroup access, by eliminating all the posts and text and providing access to only the images. You then resell the access. I cannot see how that would differ from me collecting images from the newsgroups and using them inside a paysite. There is a line there, but it is difficult to detemine exactly where that is.
However, 2257 is clear. You have to be able to prove that all the models on your site are of age. Unfiltered, the newsgroups are a seperate issue. But once you start filtering, editing, and removing the text component of the newsgroups to provide only a selected part, you very likely fall into the definition of a primary producer. Why? Because you are unable to confirm the primary producer, the assumption (legally) can be that you are the primary producer because you are unable to accurately point the finger at the primary producer. There is a huge difference between being an ISP offer an unfiltered view of the internet and a company packaging, cleaning, and selectively displaying content. In my opinion, you truly need to get yourself better lawyers if the legal advice you have gotten is different. I'm not a lawyer, but I can see where the logic goes. The likelihood that you are distributing KP is about 100%, and if you are filtering to remove it, then you are not just an ISP. You cannot have it both ways. Alex |
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2005-04-18, 07:49 PM
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#13 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mohawk, New York
Posts: 19,477
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Alex
How exactly would that differ from any isp that offers usenet access unfiltered? They give you access to the same content, right? |
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2005-04-18, 08:38 PM
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#14 |
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The Original Greenguy (Est'd 1996) & AVN HOF Member - I Crop Pics For Thumbs In My Sleep
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blasdell, NY (shithole suburb south of Buffalo)
Posts: 41,929
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Jim - are you saying that you endorse this kind of thing?
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2005-04-18, 08:40 PM
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#15 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mohawk, New York
Posts: 19,477
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Quote:
Is that the thing you are asking about? |
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2005-04-18, 08:43 PM
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#16 |
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The Original Greenguy (Est'd 1996) & AVN HOF Member - I Crop Pics For Thumbs In My Sleep
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blasdell, NY (shithole suburb south of Buffalo)
Posts: 41,929
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No, I'm talking about allowing access to illegal and/or unlicensed content.
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2005-04-18, 08:44 PM
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#17 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mohawk, New York
Posts: 19,477
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You mean like every isp that offers usenet access?
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2005-04-18, 08:45 PM
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#18 | |
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Rock stars ... is there anything they don't know?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 14
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Quote:
1) If you view inappropriate content within the newsgroups, simply contact our staff and we'll make sure the posts are removed. Additionally, we will block the originating points of this material, and discontinue peering relationships with any services that propagate child pornography. Our staff is available 7 days a week throughout the year, allowing us to address these concerns in a timely fashion. Folks are welcome to email their inquiry to "abuse@eroticusenet.com" or phone us at 408-720-7620. 2) We take this issue very seriously as well. All incoming copyright complaints are handled within DMCA guidelines, and we set aside a dedicated email address (dmca@eroticusenet.com) to expedite those complaints. Please note that a number of adult webmasters also post content to the newsgroups to promote their websites, and we've assisted them with that process for the past 12 years. Those folks will typically post their older, archived content to the groups, providing them with an inexpensive, but effective method for advertising their websites. The following web page provides some general posting guidelines for commercial sites, and our staff is always available to answer any questions... http://eroticusenet.com/posts.htm Thanks for the opportunity to discuss some of these topics on your message board, we appreciate it. |
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2005-04-18, 08:51 PM
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#19 |
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Took the hint.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,597
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Jim, an ISP is offering "unfiltered" access - raw feed, do what you want. ISPs are safe from prosecution - they are the same as phone companies, message carriers. As long as they don't filter the message, they are not responsible for it. They offer pipe not content.
What this company is doing is collecting ONLY images off usenet, filtering, organizing them, etc and then reselling access to ONLY those images. At that point, they are no different from a site you or I run offering access to images for a price. The difference is they have sourced their material not from content producers but by scooping usenet. They pay no fee, have no license, and have no access to 2257 info. ISP offers access to the internet as a whole. newsgroup suppliers offer access to newsgroups as a whole. Once you start to filter and edit, you accept responsiblity for it. Alex |
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2005-04-18, 09:07 PM
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#20 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mohawk, New York
Posts: 19,477
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It's the filtering you don't like? What about isps that filter adult content? Is that the same thing? After all, content is content, right? Doesn't matter if it is images and/or text.
Or, how about the old dejanews, now groups.google? Or for that matter...any service that provides a content database for usenet. |
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2005-04-18, 09:13 PM
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#21 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mohawk, New York
Posts: 19,477
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I know I don't have to say this but...everyone knows I don't support content thievery in any shape or form. I just think when you are talking about Usenet access and/or filtering, you are looking towards the wrong place for the thieves.
I have always had a strong feeling about access to usenet. It is the very last place for free speech and anonymity. I believe you have to take the bad with the good. |
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2005-04-18, 10:13 PM
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#22 | |
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Rock stars ... is there anything they don't know?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 14
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Quote:
You found a couple of posts in the Greenguy message board that talked about XBiz/EroticUsenet/2257, and you wanted to clarify a few points. We talked for an extended period of time, and at your request, we sent you a statement that detailed the relationship between Usenet, our service and 2257. After reviewing that information, you said there was "no problem", and that you'd post a reply in the Greenguy discussion thread. You also suggested that XBiz might write an editorial piece to help educate the adult industry about Usenet and the services that we provide. That was the last time we spoke. You never made a reply post to the Greenguy discussion thread, the editorial coverage never materialized, and you also failed to respond to several phone & email messages that we left for you. Additionally, we left several messages with our XBiz account rep (Kristen) that went unanswered. As a result, we elected to post some information into this discussion thread to help address some of the misconceptions about Usenet and our service. In regards to my other comment... I was simply saying that as a publisher it would seem to be a conflict of interest to operate an affiliate program (Gigacash) that's linked to a variety of commercial content sites that you own. As an example, when you run a WHOIS on several of the sites listed at http://gigacash.com/sites.html those domains are registered under Webstar Marketing, which appears on the advertising invoices that we've received from XBiz... shelovesbigballs.com coedchicks.com mombang.com etc. In the end, all we wanted to do was address some of these issues in a responsible manner, but you elected to close off communications and essentially left us out there to hang. Not sure what we were expected to do in that situation. |
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2005-04-18, 10:43 PM
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#23 | |
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Rock stars ... is there anything they don't know?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 14
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Quote:
As an example, the following statement is a complete misrepresentation of the services that we provide... "...collecting ONLY images off usenet, filtering, organizing them, etc and then reselling access to ONLY those images." We are a Usenet service provider, and have been for the past 12 years. It is the same service that is offered through telcos, ISPs, universities, corporations and competing commercial Usenet providers. We are not "collecting", "filtering", "organizing" or "scooping" anything. Those are your descriptions of our service, and as noted, they are incorrect. In the end, our clients... both adult and non-adult... have benefited tremendously from the Usenet services that we provide to them... and as business people, it would have been nice to have a candid, responsible dialog about the topics appearing in this thread. Quite frankly, we thought that if anyone could understand the importance of free speech... the importance of not being characterized or labeled unfairly... it would be participants in the adult entertainment industry. Obviously we were wrong, and that's unfortunate. |
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2005-04-18, 11:10 PM
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#24 | |
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Certified Nice Person
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dirty Undies, NY
Posts: 11,268
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Quote:
__________________
Click here to purchase a bridge I'm selling. |
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2005-04-18, 11:32 PM
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#25 | |
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Shut up brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 114
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Quote:
Usenet was the heart of the net long before there was any such thing as the world wide web and it is still a very valuable resource. |
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Linear Mode
