Where have all the big guys gone?

[LowryBigwood]

Is it just me, or are the big boys losing their grip? I don't see many of the well known LL's in the serps, Google, what is the deal?

Also... Are the adult sites judged by a different algorithm than mainstream?

[Bill]

It kinda looks that way.

What well known names did you see still near the top, if any?

People have said for years that adult sites get suppressed, but I've never seen proof of it, and there's not a lot you can do about it if it's true.

[Ramster]

WOW, you're right. I see many links for TGPs but not LL and the LL I use to own is nowhere at all. I also see the Alexa rank dropped so far back it is crazy. I guess losing all that google traffic will do that. Ouch!

[Halfdeck]

Also... Are the adult sites judged by a different algorithm than mainstream?

I doubt it, but it's far easier for me to get a mainstream site fully indexed in both Google and Yahoo.

In general, the percentage of exchanged links to the total number of IBLs for a site in some mainstream spaces (specifically, sites that publish articles like Wikipedia) may be lower than in adult, simply because people naturally link to articles as points of reference.

In adult, I basically see five types of links: 1) aff links 2) internal nav links 3) link trades 4) traffic trades 5) links to our own sites. One-way "citations" aka "traffic leaks" are rare.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Halfdeck

In adult, I basically see five types of links: 1) aff links 2) internal nav links 3) link trades 4) traffic trades 5) links to our own sites. One-way "citations" aka "traffic leaks" are rare.

Sounds right. It's an interesting problem.

I wonder if TGPs don't do so well because they end up with many thousands of small incomings, avoiding the "recip devalueation".

I suspect category links may have hurt everyone far more than we've thought.

But, I haven't been talking measurements. We'd have to take a look at the survivors and see what they are doing that's different.

[LowryBigwood]

Originally Posted by Halfdeck

In adult, I basically see five types of links: 1) aff links 2) internal nav links 3) link trades 4) traffic trades 5) links to our own sites. One-way "citations" aka "traffic leaks" are rare.

I agree with this as well. Natural incoming links do seem to be much lower than our mainstream side. But, I do see them still.

[LowryBigwood]

Originally Posted by Bill

I suspect category links may have hurt everyone far more than we've thought.

Hey Bill,

Are you talking about category/niche trades on the LL's?

[Bill]

Originally Posted by LowryBigwood

Hey Bill, Are you talking about category/niche trades on the LL's?

Well, I was thinking of category recips for freesites actually, but category trades between lls would fall under the same kind of risk.

The idea is that it's very easy and quick to detect a page-to-page reciprocal linking pattern, and logical, based on the bits and pieces we learn about how google works, to theorize that google devalues page to page linking a little more so than domain to domain linking.

If that's true, linklists that don't use category recips might end up above linklists that do. I'm not watching it close enough to tell wether or not that's happening.

Like halfdeck says, it's pretty clear that one-way incoming links are what google likes right now.

How to build adult sites that take advantage of that is the question.

[LowryBigwood]

I see what you're saying, and it looks like some sites like PenisBot has retained its position. However, I have gained position and I use cat linking with recips. I don't know if you can figure out google, but I think they just fucked up personally. That is judging from my mainstream sites that got shit on. Also sites like PB have many years on me, so it's hard to say what's what.

[pood]

give it another couple years. You're going to be seeing a lot of LL getting less and less SERPs, google is starting to not care about recip linking anymore. It's a lot more important to have 1 way links now.

so ppl should start thinking about A->B->C linking.

[Halfdeck]

Originally Posted by pood

so ppl should start thinking about A->B->C linking.

If you own A and C, that's the same as A->B->A.

[LowryBigwood]

Originally Posted by Halfdeck

If you own A and C, that's the same as A->B->A.

What about if A and C are on different hosts? That should help right or is there more involved?

[Halfdeck]

What about if A and C are on different hosts? That should help right or is there more involved?

Knowing where a domain is hosted isn't too telling when trying to determine the intent of links. Just because sites are hosted in four or five different places doesn't mean they're all owned by different people.

[ronnie]

It kind of makes sense, we are in this to make money, we dont like to put up leaks, only if we get something back. Where as sites like Wikipedia are one way linked because they are "information", a resouce and not looking to make cash off the traffic.

It seems like a flaw in this business, not wanting to say, "hey here's a good site, check it out". with no intention or wanting something back. I'm sure guilty of it. In some mainstream places, thats what is big, helping each other out, even joint ventures. Maybe we need to change our thinking?

[spacemanspiff]

Originally Posted by LowryBigwood

What about if A and C are on different hosts? That should help right or is there more involved?

i asked a Google rep/tech at a convention I attended a while back if they looked at whois info on domains. In the usual "I'm not revealing to much" fashion, he told me they could access whois info, but he wouldn't reveal whether or not they did, and if so whether or not they used it in ranking sites. That's always kind of stuck in the back of my mind though.

[cd34]

Originally Posted by spacemanspiff

he told me they could access whois info, but he wouldn't reveal whether or not they did

I believe this is why google is an icann approved registrar

[pood]

Originally Posted by Halfdeck

Knowing where a domain is hosted isn't too telling when trying to determine the intent of links. Just because sites are hosted in four or five different places doesn't mean they're all owned by different people.

You can use C-Block IPS. those will make it seem liek they're from new hosts.

but, what I was trying to say was if you trade links with other ppl and if they have more than 1 site to trade with. you can build 1 one link by trading 1 link with one of the sites and getting a link back from one of his other sites. that way you have one way links

[Halfdeck]

Originally Posted by pood

You can use C-Block IPS. those will make it seem liek they're from new hosts.

but, what I was trying to say was if you trade links with other ppl and if they have more than 1 site to trade with. you can build 1 one link by trading 1 link with one of the sites and getting a link back from one of his other sites. that way you have one way links

And what I'm telling you is they can easily detect that.

[Xeno]

Generally Google is a really messed up company because they cannot maintain serps consistency and constantly changing things. It's like if you do a search for something with Canada Google, you get results and if you do the same search on the US Google, you get similar but there are differences, likewise if you choose yet a different google locale, its different. PR's are even up and down with sites and getting worse with a bouncing yo-yo effect and with site positioning.

Google won't disclose anything so its nothing more than a guessing game to anticipate what they are doing. However, there are major changes coming over the next year with search engines and its going to have a lot of negative results (perhaps some good ones) for most.

I think we will see a lot of the big guys slowly disappear...the problem will be maintaining seo. Its becoming a full time job effort on top of your site management. I see this taking the majority of time out of your daily routine.

[ronnie]

It may seem to us, as though the serps are messed up, but you sure can't say Google as a company is messed up. I remember when they started, from that to what they are now, no one can say they have'nt been an amazing success story. The serps may seemed messed up, but their business model sure is'nt.

Can't blame them for not giving out their plans or operations, spam is an up hill battle, they sure dont need a leg up. And no search engines will give up the info, they'd shoot their self in the foot if they did. On the other hand how can any one say there will be big changes and changes that could have a negative impact if we don't know what's going on in the first place?

I dont see the "big guys" going away anytime soon, they are big guys for a reason, they also hold the serps for a reason.

Seems to me, se's have shifted away from what was and still should be important, relavent content, thats what the surfer is searching for. I guess all the spammers taking advantage of content back in the day, shifted it. Now it seems the focus is more on links and linkbuilding, ect. To me they need a better way verify relavent content as the primary goal, and links secondary. Who's to say, maybe that is what they are trying to do. Just my two cents.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Xeno

However, there are major changes coming over the next year with search engines and its going to have a lot of negative results (perhaps some good ones) for most.

I think we will see a lot of the big guys slowly disappear...the problem will be maintaining seo. Its becoming a full time job effort on top of your site management. I see this taking the majority of time out of your daily routine.

Pull your head out of your ass.

I predict the sun will burn out in the next 60 days.
I predict Wal-Mart will double their employees' wages and offer free health insurance by the end of the week.
I predict the U.S. will win in Iraq.

[Xeno]

.....UW will disappear.....

lol....by the way, which head are you referring to oh, rim shot! wait, thats a double pun there...lol.

Back on a serious note, some will see some changes. I probably should say "see some of the big guys change" but not disappear. I think Penisbot has snagged good spots though for a very long time

It'll be interesting to see how things go though over 2007 for everyone. Speaking of which, I better get back to work here...too much to do still in little time.

cheers

[SheepGuy]

Originally Posted by Xeno

.....UW will disappear.....

lol....by the way, which head are you referring to oh, rim shot! wait, thats a double pun there...lol.

Back on a serious note, some will see some changes. I probably should say "see some of the big guys change" but not disappear. I think Penisbot has snagged good spots though for a very long time

It'll be interesting to see how things go though over 2007 for everyone. Speaking of which, I better get back to work here...too much to do still in little time.

cheers

I predict those who worry the least about the google god, while realising he/she/it exists will prosper by building.
I predict those who concentrate on worshipping the google god over all else will succumb to the temptations of the quick keyword fix and stumble in the darkness leading to much wailing and gnashing of teeth one month later.
From the mouths of sheep ye will hear "Baaaa"

[Halfdeck]

Oh come on.

Google won't disclose anything

Google discloses a LOT of info, way more than Yahoo or MSN ever does.

the problem will be maintaining seo.

SEO isn't about "maintenance."

You don't need to keep up with algorithm changes, like how much Google likes keyword frequency, keywords in urls, keywords in ALT or TITLE tags, keywords in content versus navigation, keywords in META keyword tags, number of outbound links per page...too many people worry about that shit and never realize they're completely wasting their time.

If you want to spam Google, or if you're targeting low hanging fruits, then you may want to keep up with that shit, but if you're out to do things the legit route, and want to rank for something like "pussy" then all you need to understand is that Google wants to rank sites based on merit, and it measures merit largely based on quality and quantity of links.

Link list reviewers spend hours every day reviewing free sites to make sure they're clean and "bookmarker-friendly". Google works the same way. They want people to find exactly what they're looking for when they go to Google so they keep coming back. They don't want junk and cheaters polluting their index.

What's going to evolve is the way Google evaluates links - right now, its not all that good at detecting artificial links. If Google could tell the difference between an editorial link and a spam link over on Wikipedia, then NOFOLLOW on that site would be completely unnecessary. The fact that Google is advocating NOFOLLOW is evidence enough that they still don't have the technology to handle it on their end.

If you want to exploit that loophole, yeah, you're going to have to do some "SEO maintenance." But if you're in it for the long haul, there's really nothing much to maintain.

I think we will see a lot of the big guys slowly disappear...

I think not, because sites that currently rank on top have a better chance of attracting organic links than newer sites.