It's getting tough to virtual host with seperate IPs for SE sites

[Bill]

So, I'm shopping around for a virtual hosting solution for a bunch of domains names, search engine domains that I would like to have on seperate IPs.

This is getting harder and harder to find. It used to be easy. maybe I'm already hosted at all the best places for this type of search engine work solution, because I don't want to host on servers I'm already using, I want to host on servers I've never used before.

Anybody have any suggestions for places to host that can provide 60+ seperate IPs on a virtual account? I'd prefer to pay a flat setup fee but can just as easily pay monthly for the IPs.

[Linkster]

Bill...Id talk to Candid Hosting...I know they have monthly IP packages...not sure if they will do it with virtual although I cant see why not...and they have at least two Class C's

[urb]

Virtually hosted accounts usually have quite similar IP numbers. And I know there are two schools of thought about Google being able to work this one out.

I'm told there's an IP number shortage here in Europe. To get an extra IP on even a dedicated server in Europe you need to tell them that you are thinking about doing SSL for which you need the extra IP.

Otherwise they only allow 2 IP's per dedicated server. |pissed|

[Linkster]

Hiya Urb Im kinda the same way....Im not sure if Google really cares about this unless you're really flying way above their radar...
I know that Candid requires you to prove that you will use a certain percentage of the IPs before they will lease them to you..but with the number of domains you have that shouldnt be a problem.....I think their blocks are lots of 60?

[urb]

Linkster, radar I also believe that Google could check your NS1 NS2 etc...

And I've seen emails from hosting companies who have checked through our portfolio pages and informed us that all the customer sites are on very different IP addresses...... and how it would cost us less to move everything together on a big dedicated machine with them.

In the words of Jake Blues, when Elwood asked him to go and see the Penguin....... "No fucking way!"

Best way IMO is to start new sites on fresh IPs with Candid or Blue Gravity et al.... then if the site becomes busy and works up the engines, buy it some space on it's own.

Another reason for having separate IPs is when link list / tgp owners are banning your ass and do a reverse .......... I've said too much already.

[DangerDave]

Bill,

in case you havent tried them

http://www.bluegravity.com/
http://www.protgp.com/
http://www.ezprovider.net/

DD

[JohnnyUtah]

Give us a shout mate....
IP's are no problem.
Lets make a deal
sales at bullhosting.com
or icq: 22585107

[McSpike]

prohosters.com even put most of my domains on different class c IP blocks.

[Bill]

A bunch of excellent leads here, thank you everyone. I've added some of these names to my favorites for future use, investigated several hosts, and purchased the hosting I wanted at bullhosting. I had a good sales experience there. It's too early to tell anything else about them as a company or as servers, but I am pleased so far.

Prohosters is a good place to put SE domains, but I have a hundred there already and specifically wanted to find a new host.

How did you get them to put you on several class c's, McSpike? I considered asking them to put this batch of domains on another machine in their server farm, but decided that an entirely new company, located in a new country, was a much better option.

Again, thanks all, very useful!

[McSpike]

Bill, I didn't even know until I checked the new admin area (the new SAMI) where I saw IPs of domains. I just started looking in to having different class c blocks myself too and that's how I saw it.. never asked, they just set it that way. if I didn't I wouldn't even know they can do that, lol

[Nickname]

Ok, Bill(or someone that feel they know) you seem pretty "into" the SE stuff on loads of domains, if I was to buy say 10(start out small) new domains and have them mainly for SE's what would be the first things you would do with those domains, how would you develop them? Also what do you consider being the best domains to buy, ie; with niche keywords? general? other than .com domains? I know im asking ya to give me the gold, but maybe I can get a few nugets? |rasta|
Ive been thinking for quite a while to get some new domains and start out for some SE hits just dont really know how to develop them, the domains I already have are pr2-3 domains with a fair amount of SE traffic, i guess linking from them would be a good thing too.....Oh well would be very greatful if you or anyone here could answer some of my questions.

[Bill]

There are guys here who are technically way more proficient then I. A lot of my stuff is kinda "well, let's see if this works...". It's the biggest and most profitable part of my business, tho, so I must be doing something right. ;-}

Of course, I got smashed down a few updates back, and lost a ton of weekly income, so I must be doing something wrong, too. I'm mostly recovered from that, but it will take me months to experiment and figure out how to avoid that in the future.

Search engine work takes months to do, you build a new type of site or page and hope that it will pull traffic and make sales.

Domains are cheap, hosting is cheap, content is cheap, so if you are willing to experiment and wait a few months for your work to bear fruit, there's no reason you couldn't increase your search engine sales.

There's a number of different strategies for doing SE work, the people who buy expired domain names would look at my approach and laugh themselves silly. I basically just build the type of sites that would get accepted at DMOZ, try to put as much good original text on the pages as I can (that's the hard part, writing the SE text), link the sites together in what I hope are natural looking patterns, and see how they do in the SERPS.

Link trading with other webmasters is the new rage these days, I should do more of it, but when I started out in this biz I traded links with about a half dozen people and every single one of them went out of business. So I got into the habit of incestuous linking, which worked fine, but may be the reason I got smashed down this summer.

I don't know if that answers any questions for you. Maybe the real experts here will chime in.

[Cleo]

This is an interesting thread. I've both heard that it doesn't make a difference and it does as far as IPs go.

I wonder what will happen with IPv6 starts coming in wide use?

[Bill]

My experiments seem to show that having seperate IPs definitely helps for inktomi and altavista. I personally see no real effect in google. However, I use them anyway, because when you are dealing with trying to position in the top 20-40 of 50,000 or 100,000 pages, very small advantages can become critical to success.

So it's kinda a "cover your ass" approach. As long as I can get and afford seperate IPs, it seems unwise not to do so.

I think most SE people feel pretty much the same as I do.

Actually, I've been thinking that It might be more beneficial to have domains spread out on more servers, and ignore the IPs. I'll try that before the year is over.

[DangerDave]

Nickname,

Just adding to what Bill said...

Lots of people think SE stuff works in a week... Bill was spot on... it takes months... but done correctly will work for ever(within reason )

I dont laugh at Bill's approach.. because I do the same....

Build clean(ish) sites, that can get listed in DMOZ...
Use nice text.. not just spam keywords
Think about the keywords you are targetting when you build EACH site
Dont mirror entrances - have one and focus on "it" - IMO make it the default index.
Links with Linklists and other relevant sites - but do it wisely... this is not about traffic(sheer numbers) it is about relevance.
Keyword domains are good.. and think outside the square because there are lots of good ones left.
Have a central point(hub).. in fact have a couple...
Natural linking is a good key Recips are good. Anchor text near your links helps too
Dont get caught up in the "PR" whore gang

HTH

DD

[DangerDave]

I agree with Bill again...

It is a safety issue more than anything.. in case they "do" look at IP's.

..and Iwould say the jury is still out on wether there is benefit.

I would also agree on more hosts/servers argument. Geographical separation is a good thing IMO.

DD

[Nickname]

Bill, thank you very much for the info
you think I should have several domains root's working as hubs and build a free site on every new domain root? and get that free site well optimzed and listed at dmoz? Is it better to get a new domain for every fre site(SE thinking) or should I do like 10 free sites on each domain with the root as a hub? I know ya can have >100 free sites on a domain, but something tells me that you have better shoot at getting listed with dmoz and getting good SE hits if you put free site on the domain root/index.......

DangerDave, Some very good points there, yea i know it takes months for the SE's to work your sites but the "little" SE traffic im seeing now to my domains are good, and I want more

In closing, thanks very much for the good information , keep filling me with info/idea's |rasta|

[Bill]

Nickname, thats pretty much what I would do, pick one name to be a hub, and have links to that hub on nearly every page I built on the rest of the domains.

As far as I'm concerned, the most important part is tuning and focusing my sell. (course, thats just as true for linkster sites and galleries as it is for SE work.) Search engine traffic is creamier than any other kind of traffic, but if I'm not careful I can easily waste that surfer. So I try to start thinking about what sponor and what site and what sales approach I'm going to use. There's a certain kind of surfer that I know is ready to buy and has money to spend, and I try to build my site to make that kind of surfer feel comfortable and respected.

So, you want to think about your niches, think about your sales approach.

Keep in mind, I studied hard and experimented my ass off, and 8/10ths of the time I still feel completely in the dark. You are gonna have to study too if you want to make a decent income off of it.

DMOZ will list sub-directory sites just as happily as index.htmls on the root of the domain, but indexes are the sweet spots, roughly three times more likley to appear in the top 20 than any other page.

Looking at your referrer stats will tell you more than almost anything.

There's "tricks" and shit that I'm not going to talk about, mostly very simple and self-evident, and they are mentioned and referred to many times here and at other forums. You'll enjoy figuring it out. ;-}

[Nickname]

Cool, good advice, isnt it abit of a waste of a domain to build 1 free site on it and then move on to the next domain?

would a free site with say 100 pics be better than a 20-30pic one? In my opinion its not the number of pictures on a free site its the number of pictures vs the number of ads that is the important part, sure, I get more traffic from less pics by building more smaller free sites, but seen from the SE point of view does it matter??

DangerDave, you say dont mirror entrances......so you mean I should concentrate on say 8 LL's for the default index and not use any more LL's?

Lots of questions |rasta| hehe

[Linkster]

NickName...I dont think the idea was to use the root of the domain for just a free site....although it can be done...a secondary directory would suffice for the non-mirrored sites. The idea being that you stay away from mirroring to avoid any problems with dupe content.
Remember that the difference here that DDave mentioned is that you are not going for the big traffic from LLs but the link positioning....you can whittle down the LLs to use to 9-12 for that purpose. If you want free sites for traffic from LLs, just do it on a different domain, with different text and name the pics something different...or use slightly different pics..pretty easy approach. You might have to wait a while for the LL submits for traffic to make sure you dont flood them with dupe sites.

A clean DMOZ free site should get you some nice incoming links as long as you remember that the link coming from DMOZ should also have targetted text The root site can have more content and be extremely attractive to DMOZ and others which as Bill mentioned, if you have good content (text in this case) is a sweet spot for SE's.

[Nickname]

thanks for the help linkster, but does dmoz list my root/hub if I get a free site listed with them, or do you mean that I will get better links on other SE's cause I have free sites listed in dmoz?

the approach(how do ya spell that) that im using right now I i have 1 domain and use the root as a hub and build free sites indirectories that link to the hub(root) but its not getting any effect on SE hits......sure the free sites and the hub do get SE hits mostly google/yahoo and alltheweb, but still less than 40 SE hits/day accross all my free sites on this domain is crap :/ the domain has got hub and about 30 free sites.......
I suck at SEO

[Nickname]

Some of you guys have over 100 domains, so you cant be building lots of free sites on each domain lol or? Unless you have some free site builder software of something that spits them out in 100's, and as far as I know thats not good for SE's hehe

so I asume that for real SEO you should have a domain for each free site you make?

kinda hard to build dmoz sites now when dmoz is down 8/10 times ya look |pissed|

[Linkster]

Getting DMOZ to link to each site, as long as they are different content, has been pretty easy as long as you meet their guidelines...that gives you all of those incoming links (in addition to any LLs that link to those free sites) and then each site should also have a pointer to the root (which it sounds like you are already doing) with good text...not just "more links here"

as far as the hundreds of domains...it takes quite a while to build up each one if you go that route....and yes each domain (in my case) has free sites underneath the root...its taken a few years and Im no where near finished - a small disclaimer though...I tend towards the "keyword domains" out of old habits, so I usually use a domain for a niche...and then build a LL/hub that links them together in that niche. There are a few that arent done that way and as long as you have good incoming links, it shouldnt matter though - a branded domain works just as well...although I try to do both branding and keywords on the same domains (just superstitious)

[Nickname]

Linkster, ok, what do you think is best? putting a free site on the root or a hub?

what if I was to buy say 5 niche domains and make the root of them a hub in that niche and then build free sites linking back and forth to the hub and also linking the hubs togehther with good descreptive textlinks, should I use FPA's between the hub and the free sites and a fpa between the free sites and the hub's? hehe I love asking questions and getting good answers, I love this board

|jim|

[DangerDave]

DangerDave, you say dont mirror entrances......so you mean I should concentrate on say 8 LL's for the default index and not use any more LL's?

- Yes thats' what I meant.. and Linkster is correct with the "duplicate content" reasoning.. One of the hardest things some webmasters find ..is the shift to NOT focussing on sheer numbers for traffic.. You are aiming for quality keyword targetted surfers.. not 10,000 link clickers looking for tits.

would a free site with say 100 pics be better than a 20-30pic one

- IMO stick with the formula... 20-30 pics.. maybe a bonus movie or something.. You still dont want to waste resources or give them "everything" they are looking for .. you still want to tease them into heading for your sponsor.

isnt it abit of a waste of a domain to build 1 free site on it and then move on to the next domain

- you can still use the domain for other things... galls, free sites,AVS etc... but then you can link these back to the root of the domain where your quality SE free site is.. and give it a little more link pop/relevance.

..and NO you dont HAVE to use the root of the domain and sub-dir will work just as well.

the approach that im using right now I i have 1 domain and use the root as a hub and build free sites in directories......

If that is NOT working try the site in the domain root approach and see if you have more success.

Some of you guys have over 100 domains, so you cant be building lots of free sites on each domain

I dont build LOTS of free sites... I build "many" quality sites(from an SE point of view). It is an ongoing process and having a few domains lets you pick and chose where you are going to build.

what if I was to buy say 5 niche domains and make the root of them a hub in that niche

- Nickname, I see alot of webmasters do this and then fall into the trap of listing hundreds of sites on their hubs, with little or no qualifying/anchor text. A page of lnks is just a page of links.. and not really seen as "valuable/relevant" by the SE's(espec. Google). IMO if you build the "hub"(I hate that word!) on the domain root, keep the number of sites listed < 80-100(I would, in fact, only list about 20), make sure each has a nice long RELEVANT text description, and some supporting text for the page itself.

DON'T
spam keywords in hidden text
spam keywords in heading tags
over do single keywords or keyword phrases

Chose your PRIME keywords BEFORE you build the page... and use them wisely.

DD