Please Someone Shed Some Light <question><rant>

[gobgook2]

Ok, Im just getting a little frustrated here in snowy Illinois. Let's set the stage...

We opened up a review site 1-2 months ago, and it's doing rather well (much better than owning a TGP ever did for me!). So now I'm expanding into other methods of link exchanges and traffic generation for it. Somehow I ended up at AdultChamber looking through their Directories and Search Engines lists. |badidea| 10% useful. So a few questions arose in my quest...

1) Do LL/DIR owners pretty much want "traditional freesites", paysites, AVS and NOTHING ELSE? (I think most freesites I've seen (i don't play the freesite game myself) are mostly ugly and cluttered. I don't like the structure / layout etc of a "traditional freesite", so I don't get into it. But nobody has really jumped on the bandwagon and added a category for Review Sites from what few sites I checked out...)

2) What is the fascination with making bigass table-structured recips and then REQUIRING everyone to use them and ONLY them (ie, I can't just make up a good ol' text link!?). I mean, I understand wanting to make it stand out, but...

Here's my issue with (2). I would like to get some exposure for my review site, which I'm trying to keep as clutter-free and clean as possible. To that end, in addition to the "Friends" list that appears across the site which I plan to keep as a small select group, I've started adding link trades to the Entry/Warning page. Stay with me here... Let's say I intend to put 25 links on my entry page. Now --

IF LL/DIR owners DEMAND that recips appear ABOVE the "Enter/Exit" links
AND
IF LL/DIR owners DEMAND those table recips...

Here's what we come up with => www.gob-gook.com/wtf.html
(Note: Not trying to piss on anyone here, or get on anyone's shitlist. I just took 5-6 of these recips at random from that adult chamber list. I then re-used them over and over for the sake of my not wasting half the day making a simple example to (perhaps) over-exaggerate my point. LOL If you're one of the guys that I used a recip from for my example, it's simply because you're listed at adult chamber... no other reason Some of them DID allow you to use either their table recip OR a text link, but not many...)

So... I don't think I have to even say it in print that my example looks like a clusterfuck and would probably drive a good % of surfers off quickly.

That said, you can see the way I'd much rather set the links up at www.pornsitereport.com (and yeah, they're UNDER the enter/exit links... for now at least...) I'm completely open to suggestions here! I mean, I assume entry page link trades are more for the benefit of SE/PR and link popularity than actual traffic...? I'm really just trying to avoid plastering loads of links all over the actual site itself, I guess. And if anybody wants to set up a link trade, entry to entry or whatever, I'm willing to discuss!

Thanks for taking the time to read my lengthy drivel.
Happy Sunday!
</rant>

[kenny]

I just surf the link list and see what is being listed.

[RawAlex]

Okay, here goes... your problem is VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY simple.

Why the heck would anyone want to send you traffic?

Think about it. The link list / free site concept is that YOU provide entertainment, and the link site provides some traffic. You have no entertainment here, just a giant collection of ads.

Places like rabbit's reviews get listed because they credit the sales to the link site sending the traffic. Basically, you appear to be wanting something for nothing... and that just doesn't happen.

You may find some other people running review sites or other commercial only sites willing to trade links, but basically you have a site which is just a huge collection of ads, a no link site will send people over there to just suffer through an endless (but nicely organized) list of paysites.

You need to build free sites, and PROMOTE your website reviews with them. Your review site is a traffic destination, not a doorway.

IMHO, of course.

Alex

[gobgook2]

credit the sales to the link site sending the traffic

And if I could figure out a way to code that, I'd probably give it some long hard thought too!

I get your point completely though, about this being a destination and not a portal. Don't know why it hadn't really occurred to me!

Freesites to promote the review site idea will be taken into consideration - thanks! (like i dont already have enough to do in the day LOL)

[RawAlex]

heh-heh... I have looked at the coding to pull that off, and it isn't VERY intense, but because there are a number of ways to do link codes, it can be truly a pain. Signup with rabbits and see what you have to do to set shit up... it is truly a painful experience!

Alex

[ronnie]

I agree, the site is done pretty well, one review I looked at was pretty long and in-depth, although you kinda talked the surfer out of joining..lol

As Alex said there are plenty of review sites out there to trade with, that might be the best bet at first, least you might get some SEO help if you did'nt get traffic.

Although some might over look the site is only sponsor links if they can get a link on the root of a domain v.s. a free site door way page that might not see much of anything. Course Pr and traffic can sure help you out with potential trades.

ronnie

[gobgook2]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Why the heck would anyone want to send you traffic?

Think about it. The link list / free site concept is that YOU provide entertainment, and the link site provides some traffic. You have no entertainment here, just a giant collection of ads.

OK, I've had a chance to sleep on it, and I'm going to stand by my original position for now, I think. My "freesite" is also just a collection of ads, with say 2-3 galleries (which are also technically ads) - same concept, different layout. If the free content on a "freesite" is considered the "entertainment" here, then that's just as available in reviews, in the form of photo samples (and members area captures, etc).

So why the heck would anyone want to send traffic to a freesite either? At either one there's something of value for the surfer to 'get into', but they're both are still pretty much just an ad layout for MY sponsors, in different formats. If you link to my freesite, you may be giving the surfer 3 galleries x 20 pictues ea as their "entertainment". Sure, a review site is text heavy, but counting sample photos they're getting (currently) 47 reviews containing 3-4 photos each...

If it's not about the freebies/content ("entertainment"), then it certainly can't be about the link trade/traffic on a warning page, because there's no difference in a freesite warning page with, say, 6 recips, and a review site warning page with the same recips. Either way there's a potential for click-happy surfers to see and visit the same recip'ed sites, no?

Follow me here? I mean, in the Rabbits Reviews vein, the freesites you list aren't carrying your refcode into their freesite and crediting you with all sales are they??? I'm still not seeing enough difference. I may just not "get it" though hehe I'm a freesite newb for sure, as admitted in the first statement Although I did take your suggestion Alex and built my first last night... we'll see...

Thanks all for the open dialogue, I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I like so many others find it hard not to be an opinionated prick sometimes LOL

[gobgook2]

Originally Posted by ronnie

I agree, the site is done pretty well, one review I looked at was pretty long and in-depth, although you kinda talked the surfer out of joining..lol

As Alex said there are plenty of review sites out there to trade with, that might be the best bet at first, least you might get some SEO help if you did'nt get traffic.

Although some might over look the site is only sponsor links if they can get a link on the root of a domain v.s. a free site door way page that might not see much of anything. Course Pr and traffic can sure help you out with potential trades.

ronnie

Thanks for the compliment You're right. VERY in-depth (we try to be anyway) and... re-read the mission statement We've tried to create a place that doesn't just gush about every site they review, because the honest truth is, there's a lot of shit sites out there. The ultrashit sites we won't touch of course, and even some of the ones that rate 70-80 could up their score by 10 points simply by telling me how often they update their site in the tour. The trick is keeping affiliate managers from getting pissed off while still being honest and up-front with the surfer. You'll certainly see some sites NOT highly recommended, but chances are there's another site from that sponsor that IS... There's an article in the FAQ on this, but I don't know if it'll make any more sense than my normal long-winded rambling! The main thing you'll see sites get a vote of no-support is just that - they never tell you how often they add new content, in either the tour or the members area, so how are we to know that the last addition wasn't done in March 05? (especially on revshare programs...) Anywho...

Of course we've covered that this is only a month or two old site, but in the normal course of my business I try VERY HARD not to play the PR/Alexa game, because they're so easy to manipulate. A guy I used to work with proved that with alexa EASY:

Run your site from DOMAIN.COM
Set up a gallery dump on TGPS.DOMAIN.COM and autosubmit 2-3 galleries a day. Didn't take 3 months to get his Alexa under 10,000. And it was his intention to use that alexa rating to charge more for advertising!!!! Egads!

So personally I don't look as much at stats (lies, damn lies, and statistics). But I realize that 99% of the webmaster community does... then again, I rarely fall into the majority on anything it seems! LOL

[RawAlex]

Gobgook, the problem lies in the intent of your site, I guess. The entainment is the ads, when you think about it. Link sites (and TGPs, MGPs, and thumbposts) all have a pretty narrow view of what is a free site. Link sites want typically 2 galleries, 3 ads total per page, index - inside - gallery - gallery. Once you stray from that pretty narrow construct, you are no longer in the game in a normal sense.

As for Alexa rankings, well, you can improve your own alexa rankings a bunch merely by installing their toolbar in your own browser. Because their statistics are based on a small sample "expanded" you can make their numbers look all sorts of weird if you run their toolbar. A number of our "eastern block" friends have discussed and do just that, all of them running alexa toolbars and each visiting each other's sites daily to keep the traffic up. Add to that galleries submitted on the same domain, or getting other domains to be "related" and combined for stats that are not part of the game... manipulation of the system for fun and profit.

I wish you luck with your project, now you have to figure out a way to get traffic from link sites without dilluting you original goals.

Alex

[gobgook2]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Link sites (and TGPs, MGPs, and thumbposts) all have a pretty narrow view of what is a free site. Link sites want typically 2 galleries, 3 ads total per page, index - inside - gallery - gallery. Once you stray from that pretty narrow construct, you are no longer in the game in a normal sense.

My conclusion exactly

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I wish you luck with your project, now you have to figure out a way to get traffic from link sites without dilluting you original goals.

Alex

Thank you - for the kind words of support and helpful suggestions