SORBS

GunnCat · 2005-08-05, 04:44 PM

I have had an open dialog for the past few days with some support person at SORBS(Spam and Open Relay Blocking System). I had tried to email a webmaster only to find it had been blocked do to spam. I contacted the support department there explaining my situation. This was the email I got to my inital support ticket.

Quote:

> [affiliate@bizzo-tgp.com - Sun Jul 31 04:19:09 2005]:
>
> Name: Jim ******
> Company: Lazy Sunday INC
> IP: 64.185.225.170
> rDNS: [TTL 3600] www.bizzo-tgp.com.
> Type: company
> Primary OS: unix
> Skill Level: admin
> DB: spam database
>
>
As this FAQ states,
http://www.au.sorbs.net/faq/spamdb.shtml

You are an innocent party that has been included in a wider listing policy
because your provider is happy to host spammer(s) that have spammed a SORBS
spamtrap or admin.¹
If you are part of a wider netblock that is blocked you are not required to
pay the SORBS 'fine' as the entry was not generated because of your actions,
however your netblock will not be removed until your upstream removes the
spammers.
They will then need to contact SORBS themselves to inform us of these
changes,there is nothing you can do yourself to have this listing changed or
removed from SORBS.

--
Joey ( SORBS Volunteer )
Western Australia.

Considering those terms I seriously had a problem at this point since I have not, nor never will send spam, yet I am being punished unfairly in my opinion by SORBS.

I replied:"Greetings,

I have a serious problem with your policy after reading the below message. I
consider your attempt to block spam a DoS since you willingly list entire
blocks of ip address without any consideration whatsoever about who is
affected. Spam will never cease using your methods. Only a Turing Test will
be able to eliminate spam.
Shame on your company. I hope you are purged from the internet asap. At this
point in time, I consider you significantly more annoying than spam.
Sincerely,
Jim"

Joey responds:

Quote:

Your logic is reversed Jim ?
It is your providers willingness to host known hard core spammers that
is effecting many innocent people like yourself.

The logic you are using in this case is a Kin top buying a new cvar from
a dealer with 2 wheels missing and then commplaining to the people that
maintain the roads for free that your ride isn't smooth.

As we does not block or filter mail from anywhere to anywhere you might
want to talk to the providers that are rejecting your mail based on our
database to ask them if they mind accepting spam from the IP block you
are part of because you dont agree with our policy .
I am willing to place a bet that that either laugh at you or totally
ignore your request.

Regards,

> --
> Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org)
>
>
>
--
Joey ( SORBS Volunteer )
Western Australia.

At this point I noticed a number of typos/grammatical errors. Either Joey is feeling defensive or he's a bad speller. I think it's important to be professional when dealing with the public. Not to make fun of the guy, but this point will more important with my last correspondance from him. My reply was short:
"Joey,
I could care less about what my host does or doesn't do. I am not
responsible for their business actions, yet SORBS punishes me. Your analogy
about a 2 wheeled car suits your point since you are the ones making the
rules about which car has 2 wheels. My host has no intention of paying your
fine and I certainly have no intention of moving dozens of websites and
databases just to bypass your lame methods which are crude and paint too
broad a stroke in it's attempts to be helpful.
I am just glad that out of the thousands of emails I have sent, that only 1
person I know uses your service.
Sincerely,
Jim"

His reply includes my previous message in it:

Quote:

> Joey,
> I could care less about what my host does or doesn't do.

Then you are a fool and getting exactly the crap service you are paying
them for.
>I am not
> responsible for their business actions, yet SORBS punishes me. Your
analogy
> about a 2 wheeled car suits your point since you are the ones making the
> rules about which car has 2 wheels. My host has no intention of paying
your
> fine and I certainly have no intention of moving dozens of websites and
> databases just to bypass your lame methods which are crude and paint too
> broad a stroke in it's attempts to be helpful.
> I am just glad that out of the thousands of emails I have sent, that
only 1
> person I know uses your service.

You are chosing to punish yourself by continuing to pay for a crippled
internet service , your choice your lose.

You will never know who uses ours and many other services like this
because in most cases you dont get a rejected or failed notice.
If you sent mail to any of the thousands on my system your mail would be
deleted and you would never know if the recipient received it or not.
I feel the same as millions of others , if you are knowingly paying for
the services of a spammer supporting ISP all mail from your provider is
not welcome and deleted from my server.

> Sincerely,
> Jim

Your comments have been noted also ,when your provider contacts us we
will delist them free of charge when they have removed their spammers
and you as clients. --
Joey ( SORBS Volunteer )
Western Australia.

So now I am "you are a fool and getting exactly the crap service". Excuse me? This is a support person, someone people would actually take seriously?

Quote:

"Your comments have been noted also ,when your provider contacts us we
will delist them free of charge when they have removed their spammers
and you as clients."

What? Now I am blacklisted because I don't like how they do things? Wow, I would never imagine someone with this kind of power would abuse it so easily.
My final correspondance with them:
"Joey,
I didn't realize your service was such a joke. I google searched "SORBS" and
didn't find any positive information about SORBS at all. I did find a lot of
legitimate companies you have banned.
I am done with this dialog. This diatribe confirms you have no sense of
responsibilty "Your comments have been noted also ,when your provider
contacts us we will delist them free of charge when they have removed their
spammers and you as clients." Suddenly I make your list as being a voice of
dissention. I have a feeling this isn't the first time this kind of action
has taken place. At the very least this is proof that SORBS needs some sort
of federal regulations. Thanks for typing that, it will surely serve to make
my point.
I will be posting our entire dialog on numourous webmaster boards and I will
seek legal advice contacting my lawyers as well as other clients adversly
affected by your "blacklist" possibly seeking a class action suit against
your company.
Goodbye.
Jim "

I urge anyone using them to seriously reconsider it. In addition I recommend doing a google search for SORBS. You will find they have caused havok without merit whatsoever to legitimate companies.

GunnCat · 2005-08-05, 04:48 PM

Oh btw, you might be interested in their FaQ:

http://www.au.sorbs.net/faq/spamdb.shtml

Surfn · 2005-08-05, 05:46 PM

That really suks

Fuckin Bill · 2005-08-05, 06:38 PM

They do tend to have a huge self-riteous attitude about things, but technically they are right. They don't block a single piece of email. All they do is maintain a public list. The problem is not their list, it's ISP's and hosts blindly using their lists to block email without really knowing what they are doing.

That's the main reason I don't use any of those lists on my private or open hosting servers. *I* decide who gets filtered out of my email, not some schmoe who's using automated and unreviewed methods of blocking shit. I can block who I want myself and my clients can make their own decisions (or requests for blocks).

Filtering spam or anything else should not be done by anyone other than the end client. What gives anyone the right to take anything out of your email when you pay for the service?

Mister13 · 2005-08-05, 07:00 PM

I have no idea why you anyone would trust Australlians with their business..they decended from criminals y'know.

I vote we take a collection to fly Jim out to Australlia and let him crotch-punch joey.

GunnCat · 2005-08-05, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister13

I have no idea why you anyone would trust Australlians with their business..they decended from criminals y'know.

I vote we take a collection to fly Jim out to Australlia and let him crotch-punch joey.

You gotta watch out for those Joey's, I heard they can box pretty well!
Bill, I agree. Painting a broad stroke with their methods.

2005-08-05, 05:46 PM	#3
Surfn If you don’t take a chance the Angels won’t dance Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Earth on occasion Posts: 8,812	That really suks __________________ Surfn's Links Are you a partner?

2005-08-05, 07:00 PM	#5
Mister13 A woman is like beer. They look good, they smell good, and you'd step over your own mother just to get one! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: California Posts: 51	I have no idea why you anyone would trust Australlians with their business..they decended from criminals y'know. I vote we take a collection to fly Jim out to Australlia and let him crotch-punch joey. __________________ -13 Affordable Adult Hosting Give them A Pants-Tent -Submit To "Porn-Folder"

2005-08-05, 04:48 PM	#2
GunnCat You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 547	Oh btw, you might be interested in their FaQ: http://www.au.sorbs.net/faq/spamdb.shtml

2005-08-05, 06:38 PM	#4
Fuckin Bill WHO IS FONZY!?! Don't they teach you anything at school? Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 43	They do tend to have a huge self-riteous attitude about things, but technically they are right. They don't block a single piece of email. All they do is maintain a public list. The problem is not their list, it's ISP's and hosts blindly using their lists to block email without really knowing what they are doing. That's the main reason I don't use any of those lists on my private or open hosting servers. I decide who gets filtered out of my email, not some schmoe who's using automated and unreviewed methods of blocking shit. I can block who I want myself and my clients can make their own decisions (or requests for blocks). Filtering spam or anything else should not be done by anyone other than the end client. What gives anyone the right to take anything out of your email when you pay for the service?