Canadaians and 2257

Chop Smith · 2005-12-02, 02:25 PM

Under Canada's privacy laws, can a model elect to allow her 2257 information released? If so, do you think the release shoud be part of the docs?

Agent · 2005-12-02, 02:52 PM

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/P-21/ Privacy Act (document "prepared for convenience of reference only").

I wouldn't want to guess, I'm not a lawyer (and I haven't read the entire document) but you might find an answer in there.

Chop Smith · 2005-12-02, 03:02 PM

No shit but thanks for the link. I believe I will wait on RawAlex's reply. He enjoys reading that kind of stuff

RawAlex · 2005-12-02, 03:20 PM

Canadian laws are written very poorly indeed. Many short phrases, many of them unrelated in time and space.

I haven't had to specifically deal with this yet. I will poke when I have more time.

Canadians are 2257 exempt.

Alex

Chop Smith · 2005-12-02, 03:40 PM

Thanks, Alex. Perhaps, it was Emma that seemed up to speed on this

emmanuelle · 2005-12-02, 05:16 PM

Like most laws, it's open to interpretation and even the lawyers aren't going to agree let alone webmasters.

There is a local company here who is offering their girls the option. There is another local company who is blatantly risking their model's lives in favour of profits while they break Canadian privacy laws. I do think that most are simply hiding behind the protection of the Canadian laws, feeling safe in that their US counterparts are lower hanging fruit.

Risk vs Reward

Xeno · 2005-12-05, 08:23 AM

Basically if the content is produced here in Canada, and the model is Canadian, and everything is Canadian, no need to worry about 2257 really. 2257 is really an American thing....Best thing to do though for anyone who has content, that if you are worried in any way or form, talk to a lawyer about your concerns.

emmanuelle · 2005-12-05, 10:43 AM

While it might just be an 'American' thing for your business model, it does affect many other Canadians. Billing and hosting is often in the US and potentially vulnerable.
Many of us shoot our own material or offer affiliate programs. Recently a batch of content featuring Montreal models was offered for sale, as well as their identification.
I should think that this affects those girls enormously, when some creep shows up at their door. Btw- Does this mean that the Canadian photographer violated our privacy laws by sharing the ids with a foreign broker who is redistributing them to anyone with $20

RawAlex · 2005-12-05, 11:03 AM

Em, it depends on what was on the model release. If the model consented to her personal information being shared "as required by US law", there is a potential that they are not having their privacy violated per se.

However, it is still not clear to me if a model can waive their rights in that manner and have it stand up in court. I haven't found any cases of circumstances in Canada to go from yet (I haven't looked REAL hard... ).

Alex

emmanuelle · 2005-12-05, 11:43 AM

I know that it's nobody's fault but their own, but in my experience, 1% of models actually read their release before signing. I would love to see video releases become the norm, and the girls to become better educated about the rights that they are surrendering.

Chop Smith · 2005-12-05, 01:40 PM

If anyone is interested in researching this, I know where they can get a black-out model release. By the way most of the releases are dated 07/2002.

Actually, I thought Alex would know the answer off the top of his head.

Here is the real deal. I have this Canadian Content downloaded but not paid for. For the most part the docs are in good order. I can use about 10% because of the niche and quality of the content - one girl will knock your dick in your pocket (if you have a dick). Now I have a friend that knows the photographer and out of respect for my friend I would not want the photographer to have problems that could trickle down.

I have no problems since I am not a Canadian and since the 2257 docs are in order on the content I would publish

Surfn · 2005-12-05, 01:47 PM

I think we should declare war on Canada.

emmanuelle · 2005-12-05, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfn

I think we should declare war on Canada.

Don't make us burn down your white house again!

Surfn · 2005-12-05, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

Don't make us burn down your white house again!

According to the South Park movie you are suppose to do tactical strike on the Baldwin's compound in Hollywood

SirMoby · 2005-12-05, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfn

I think we should declare war on Canada.

Someone's been watching O'Riely lately but you don't you think we should nuke Aruba first?

RawAlex · 2005-12-05, 03:28 PM

Chop, for my understanding, you wouldn't be in violation for having the records (you are not in Canada, so good luck chasing you down), but the photog might end up in shit if the models complained. That would assume that (1) the models figured out that you were american and not Canadian, and (2) that they truly understood the implications of 2257 laws on their personal information.

Those are two pretty big "ifs" from what I can tell.

Alex

Surfn · 2005-12-05, 03:57 PM

I guess no one here has seen "South Park: bigger longer and uncut"...LOL

tickler · 2005-12-05, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

Btw- Does this mean that the Canadian photographer violated our privacy laws by sharing the ids with a foreign broker who is redistributing them to anyone with $20

I know the Canadian courts blocked a subsidary of a US company from disclosing personal information to the head office. So I am thinking that giving out personal information without a disclaimer detailing where that information will be disclosed is a big No-No as far as Canadian Privacy laws are concerned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetGoonie

Basically if the content is produced here in Canada, and the model is Canadian, and everything is Canadian, no need to worry about 2257 really. 2257 is really an American thing....

Except they are trying to export US domestics laws on the rest of us, which basically violates NAFTA if we can't sell to the US.

emmanuelle · 2005-12-05, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

By the way most of the releases are dated 07/2002.

In that case, I doubt that the models gave informed consent.

Chop Smith · 2005-12-05, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

..the photog might end up in shit if the models complained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

In that case, I doubt that the models gave informed consent.

Perhaps my friend should speak to the photographer and convince him to reconsider his deal.

Of course the models' personal info is safe with me. I only stalk fish and hfs'

2005-12-02, 02:25 PM	#1
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	Canadaians and 2257 Under Canada's privacy laws, can a model elect to allow her 2257 information released? If so, do you think the release shoud be part of the docs? __________________

2005-12-02, 02:52 PM	#2
Agent You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 631	http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/P-21/ Privacy Act (document "prepared for convenience of reference only"). I wouldn't want to guess, I'm not a lawyer (and I haven't read the entire document) but you might find an answer in there. __________________ Brihana.com

2005-12-02, 03:02 PM	#3
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	No shit but thanks for the link. I believe I will wait on RawAlex's reply. He enjoys reading that kind of stuff __________________

2005-12-02, 03:40 PM	#5
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	Thanks, Alex. Perhaps, it was Emma that seemed up to speed on this __________________

2005-12-05, 08:23 AM	#7
Xeno Do you want the job done right, or do you want it done fast? Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 494	Basically if the content is produced here in Canada, and the model is Canadian, and everything is Canadian, no need to worry about 2257 really. 2257 is really an American thing....Best thing to do though for anyone who has content, that if you are worried in any way or form, talk to a lawyer about your concerns. __________________ Why I never sleep anymore... Web Designing

2005-12-02, 03:20 PM	#4
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	Canadian laws are written very poorly indeed. Many short phrases, many of them unrelated in time and space. I haven't had to specifically deal with this yet. I will poke when I have more time. Canadians are 2257 exempt. Alex

2005-12-02, 05:16 PM	#6
emmanuelle 0100011101100101011001010 1101011001000000100001101 1010000110100101100011 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,441	Like most laws, it's open to interpretation and even the lawyers aren't going to agree let alone webmasters. There is a local company here who is offering their girls the option. There is another local company who is blatantly risking their model's lives in favour of profits while they break Canadian privacy laws. I do think that most are simply hiding behind the protection of the Canadian laws, feeling safe in that their US counterparts are lower hanging fruit. Risk vs Reward

2005-12-05, 10:43 AM	#8
emmanuelle 0100011101100101011001010 1101011001000000100001101 1010000110100101100011 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,441	While it might just be an 'American' thing for your business model, it does affect many other Canadians. Billing and hosting is often in the US and potentially vulnerable. Many of us shoot our own material or offer affiliate programs. Recently a batch of content featuring Montreal models was offered for sale, as well as their identification. I should think that this affects those girls enormously, when some creep shows up at their door. Btw- Does this mean that the Canadian photographer violated our privacy laws by sharing the ids with a foreign broker who is redistributing them to anyone with $20

2005-12-05, 11:03 AM	#9
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	Em, it depends on what was on the model release. If the model consented to her personal information being shared "as required by US law", there is a potential that they are not having their privacy violated per se. However, it is still not clear to me if a model can waive their rights in that manner and have it stand up in court. I haven't found any cases of circumstances in Canada to go from yet (I haven't looked REAL hard... ). Alex

2005-12-05, 11:43 AM	#10
emmanuelle 0100011101100101011001010 1101011001000000100001101 1010000110100101100011 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,441	I know that it's nobody's fault but their own, but in my experience, 1% of models actually read their release before signing. I would love to see video releases become the norm, and the girls to become better educated about the rights that they are surrendering.

2005-12-05, 01:40 PM	#11
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	If anyone is interested in researching this, I know where they can get a black-out model release. By the way most of the releases are dated 07/2002. Actually, I thought Alex would know the answer off the top of his head. Here is the real deal. I have this Canadian Content downloaded but not paid for. For the most part the docs are in good order. I can use about 10% because of the niche and quality of the content - one girl will knock your dick in your pocket (if you have a dick). Now I have a friend that knows the photographer and out of respect for my friend I would not want the photographer to have problems that could trickle down. I have no problems since I am not a Canadian and since the 2257 docs are in order on the content I would publish __________________

2005-12-05, 01:47 PM	#12
Surfn If you don’t take a chance the Angels won’t dance Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Earth on occasion Posts: 8,812	I think we should declare war on Canada. __________________ Surfn's Links Are you a partner?

2005-12-05, 03:28 PM	#16
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	Chop, for my understanding, you wouldn't be in violation for having the records (you are not in Canada, so good luck chasing you down), but the photog might end up in shit if the models complained. That would assume that (1) the models figured out that you were american and not Canadian, and (2) that they truly understood the implications of 2257 laws on their personal information. Those are two pretty big "ifs" from what I can tell. Alex

2005-12-05, 03:57 PM	#17
Surfn If you don’t take a chance the Angels won’t dance Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Earth on occasion Posts: 8,812	I guess no one here has seen "South Park: bigger longer and uncut"...LOL __________________ Surfn's Links Are you a partner?