SicCash???

[AcidMaX]

OK, so I get this email today saying that my account is "unprofitable" for SicCash. Granted I dont send a ton of users but I think I have sent about 5 or so this month and 5 or so last month (when I added them to my link list).

Granted my volume is not that big, but my traffic is all clicked traffic and the garbage factor should be at a minmum.

They told me they are kicking my payouts down to $20 per signup because my users are not "profitable" for them.

Has this happened to you? Did you stop promoting them? Just curious as I dont see this as my problem. I got the user there, the user signed up. I cannot help that their retention isnt where it should be.

Just curious on your thoughts.

Andy

[Greenguy]

Same thing happened to me with Guerilla Traffic - I just pulled all the links & moved on.

[Cleo]

I see $20 for a $1 signup in my stats, but still $30 for a regular join with consoles.

[AcidMaX]

Originally posted by Cleo
I see $20 for a $1 signup in my stats, but still $30 for a regular join with consoles.

Here is the email

---------------------------------------
During the process of this week's webmaster payouts review, your account was reviewed by your account rep/Director of Operations Greg Anders. Your account is currently very unprofitable for SIC CASH. We understand that you run a good clean website, and SIC CASH appreciates your doing business with us. But at this time, SIC CASH can only afford to pay $20 per signup on this account since the trial to one full month membership retention is far below the company average. As of June 28, 2004 the payouts on this account will be adjusted to a flat $20 per signup. We are enclosing a copy of this email with your check in the amount of **** for 6/7-6/13 signups. If you have any questions or feedback, please contact your account rep Danny at danny@shawinternet.
----------------------------------------

As you can see it doesnt specify but I'm betting its the other payouts. I was only making $25 per signup by the looks of my stats remote, but thats not the point. I just dont think its my fault they cannot retain a member. I think I might have to yank some links.

[Greenguy]

Before you go pulling links, since your situation is different than mine (they moved me from PPS to RevShare) take a look at your money per click totals (or what they would be under the new $20 payout)

If it's $0.04 or more, leave the links in there

[AcidMaX]

Originally posted by Greenguy
Before you go pulling links, since your situation is different than mine (they moved me from PPS to RevShare) take a look at your money per click totals (or what they would be under the new $20 payout)

If it's $0.04 or more, leave the links in there

.0495 raw
.0618 unique

That is if I take the total amount I have been paid out so far but knocking the signups down to $20 and dividing by my raw/uniques.

So I guess I will keep them for now and see if they drop.

[MrYum]

I ran across this with a different sponsor last year...though they comletely closed my account =/

After talking with them about the issue, they re-opened it and I haven't heard from them since. Although, my ratios with them rose dramatically thereafter =/

GG is absolutely right...if it's more than .04/click...it's probably worth keeping in todays market. Which is exactly why I still send traffic to the sponsor I mentioned...I still make over .04/click with them...even with the higher ratios

[natalie]

I got the same email a couple of weeks ago. I was upset because they were doing well. Perhaps its their responsibility to keep the surfers I get to trials, I can't do much more than get them there. All my traffic was link list and se too.
Anyway I didnt take the hundreds of links down but I am not doing anymore unless I see that it is still profitable. (ie I will wait and watch for a few months)



PS In hindsight I shouldn't write anything till I have had my second morning coffee |badidea|

[gregtx]

Acid Max and Natalie...

Let me ask you a question... as webmasters.. if you are not converting your traffic with a sponsor.. do you leave it there??? or do you move it around to manipulate and maximize your dollar?

we at SICCash are here to be profitable.. when we go through accounts.. we go through them once.. then we revisit them weeks later to see if they have improved. if an account is not profitable... we used to just close the account. WE instead recently offered the webmaster a lower payout to remain an active account.

I understand that its easy to throw the blame at the sponsor and say.. "isn't it their responsibility to keep the member"... yes it is... but when an account is 20% below our company average.. there is a problem.. it may be that the traffic/surfer has become more educated and savy.. knows the game of bookmark.. join, jerk and cancel.. thus the traffic is not as profitable to us...

NOW with that said.. we can either close an account, or we can offer a new pay structure, so that we too can try and gain some of the monies back that we have already paid out in normal payouts, without doing some shady shaving trick... (sorry we are straight shooters... and havn't been in biz this long b/c of cheating our affiliates..) we chose to offer you something that may prove a win/win for both you and us..

thank you Greenguy for the suggestion of the $.04 rule... as I see AcidMax seams to be still doing ok

times get tougher for everyone everyday... and if we are not being business savy and maximizing our traffic daily.. we won't be in business to pay you for your traffic in the future...

and trust me.. we want to be here for you...

peace

ps.. if you had a question.. its easy to contact me.. as stated in the email

[natalie]

I didn't have a question... like I said I havent closed it or removed links, I am just sitting on my hands waiting and reviewing as well. Its not like I am not making anything

[deleuze]

My account was closed a few weeks ago by guess who. Let's just say Greg closes more accounts than any other rep. at SICCash so if he is your rep, I'd be very careful how much time you put into promoting SICCash. Reducing the payout on an account that only sends 5 signups/month is pathetic. SICCash is no longer a PPS sponsor. It may be for a week or a month or if you're lucky a year, but in reality, it's a revshare program. Greg just admitted that in his post.

[AcidMaX]

Originally posted by gregtx
Acid Max and Natalie...

Let me ask you a question... as webmasters.. if you are not converting your traffic with a sponsor.. do you leave it there??? or do you move it around to manipulate and maximize your dollar?

we at SICCash are here to be profitable.. when we go through accounts.. we go through them once.. then we revisit them weeks later to see if they have improved. if an account is not profitable... we used to just close the account. WE instead recently offered the webmaster a lower payout to remain an active account.

I understand that its easy to throw the blame at the sponsor and say.. "isn't it their responsibility to keep the member"... yes it is... but when an account is 20% below our company average.. there is a problem.. it may be that the traffic/surfer has become more educated and savy.. knows the game of bookmark.. join, jerk and cancel.. thus the traffic is not as profitable to us...

NOW with that said.. we can either close an account, or we can offer a new pay structure, so that we too can try and gain some of the monies back that we have already paid out in normal payouts, without doing some shady shaving trick... (sorry we are straight shooters... and havn't been in biz this long b/c of cheating our affiliates..) we chose to offer you something that may prove a win/win for both you and us..

thank you Greenguy for the suggestion of the $.04 rule... as I see AcidMax seams to be still doing ok

times get tougher for everyone everyday... and if we are not being business savy and maximizing our traffic daily.. we won't be in business to pay you for your traffic in the future...

and trust me.. we want to be here for you...

peace

ps.. if you had a question.. its easy to contact me.. as stated in the email

Greg I understand you are in business just as well all are to make a profit. I look at it like this. I didnt signup to SicCash for $20 payouts. Granted I am still doing OK, however, my job is to drive the surfer to your site. Most of my traffic is SE traffic or link trades with other sites liek Greenguys that also have good SE traffic. There is nothing blind, nothing shady, etc.

The point of the matter is that you are paying me per click (essentially) in hopes to drive more traffic to your sites where you guys make the recurring monies. If you were not making money off (hypothetically I dont know if you guys do this or not) cross sells, upsells etc., then you wouldn't be offering a higher payout amount. I look at it like this is the way for you to put a little bit more into your pocket without consulting the person sending you traffic.

I equate it to this...If I was to go out and by traffic for 5 cents a click then said, "You know what, your traffic doesnt convert for me so I'm only going to pay you 3 cents!" The traffic guy would tell me to get bent, yet you guys just did this to me.

Granted I am still making 4 cents a click, on raws, but we will see how it pans out. I am not trying to be an asshole I just think its kinda shitty that you guys just lower the payout like that. I typically look at my stats and see who is converting descent and use them for my free sites, right now it doesn't look like I will be sending any of my freesite traffic to SicCash even though my conversions were descent.

Andy

[Greenguy]

Damn! I'm officially torn on this one - I can see both sides & actually agree with both of them - LOL

If the place that changed me from PPS to RevShare had offered a lower PPS payout instead, I might still be sending traffic there, but probably following AcidMax's thinking of not really promoting them outside of the link list.

Damn good debate

[Jim]

I have to agree with Greg and SICCash with this. I have seen this before on the other side of the fence. Back then, we would either send an email saying "Thank You for the business but we need to switch you to revshare" Or, before revshare, "Thank You for the business but we need to say goodbye". You have to applaud a program that does neither. They seem to be taking the time to work with less than profitable accounts.

While it is a program's responsibility to keep members, no matter what you do, certain accounts will send people that sign up but just don't stay. I have seen this with certain types of sites. It isn't anyone's fault...you just have to live with it.

So AcidMaX, you do have a choice. You can still do well at $20/sign-up or move on. I would think about what they could have done other than trying to continue making money for both you and them.

And, welcome to GreenguyandJim, Greg

[AcidMaX]

Originally posted by Jim
I have to agree with Greg and SICCash with this. I have seen this before on the other side of the fence. Back then, we would either send an email saying "Thank You for the business but we need to switch you to revshare" Or, before revshare, "Thank You for the business but we need to say goodbye". You have to applaud a program that does neither. They seem to be taking the time to work with less than profitable accounts.

While it is a program's responsibility to keep members, no matter what you do, certain accounts will send people that sign up but just don't stay. I have seen this with certain types of sites. It isn't anyone's fault...you just have to live with it.

So AcidMaX, you do have a choice. You can still do well at $20/sign-up or move on. I would think about what they could have done other than trying to continue making money for both you and them.

And, welcome to GreenguyandJim, Greg

I understand they are there to make a profit as well. Maybe I need to look at their TOS and see if it says they can drop my payouts at anytime.

However I disagree with you. If you are going to start a program then it needs to RETAIN! I look at what I do as SicCash buying traffic from me. Granted as I said I am still making .04 per raw and will continue to keep them on my link list, if I did this to a traffic compnay they wouldn't allow it. To me it just seems like a ploy to make a little more money to be honest. If they take $5 from quite a few webmasters it adds up. I don't know if the users are actually being retained, they very well might be, this could just be a way for them to make another buck or two. Now before someone thinks I am accusing them of that, I am not, just a point.

I also look at it like this. What about the other hundreds/thousands of clicks I have sent to SicCash?? Who says they didnt make a cross sale to another program with one of my clicks that they made $35 or something off of and I didn't see a dime. So even though I sent them signups that maybe didnt retain on their members areas they very well could have made money off the cross sales/up sells they have on the other sites.

Now upon checking the signups on SicCash this is what I found when visiting one of their mature sites. This is on the epoch join page.

Click here to signup for a 1 day No Charge Membership to Sloppy Fuck Flixxx - No Charge One Day Trial Membership. After 1 day, Membership renews automatically at $39.95 every 1 month.

Click here to signup for a 1 day No Charge Membership to All Nudes - One Day Trial Membership. After 1 day, Membership renews automatically at $34.72 every 1 month.

Both of those are checked by default. So not only would the user I sent (if he doesnt uncheck those) get charged $39 or so for the MILF site I was at , but also $39.95 to Sloppy Fuck Flixxx and $34.72 for All Nudes. This means the user would wind up spending $100 a month on porn with SicCash..and they cannot afford to pay me the proper amount for signups?

To me when looking at the cross sales, upsells on their sites they should definitely not be taking anyones payouts down.

[AcidMaX]

Now again, please no one think I am sitting here bashing SicCash or anything else I am just trying to promote discussion & issues that I see with what happened. I have not dropped SicCash from my list so I am still promoting them, i just think some issues need to be addressed.

That being said. On their signup page they have a checkbox that says you must agree to the terms and conditions which leads to this information:

. S.I.C. Cash v.4 reserves the right to terminate any account at anytime without notice.

. You must be of legal age to join and promote our sites.

. We do not accept webmasters using non adult freehosts such as geocities, tripod, and angelfire .

. We reserve the right to deny any webmaster admittance into our program for using illegal content, if the webmaster is located in a high fraud area, or for any other reason.

. SIC Cash accepts English only traffic.

. We DO NOT accept webmasters from Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia, Brazil, Bulgaria, China, Costa Rica, Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary, Iberville(Quebec), India, Indonesia, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Kaliningrad, Kazakhstan, Korea (North and South), Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Malaysia, Moldova, Pakistan, Philippines, Poland, Romania, Russia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Thailand, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, and Yugoslavia.

. S.I.C. Cash v.4 will pay you up to $45.00 per trial depending on how many sign-ups you generate and if you make the multiple site sign-up bonus . S.I.C. Cash v.4 pays on all credit card and checking sign-ups. S.I.C. Cash v.4 also pays 2.5 percent of the gross sales of a webmaster that is referred through the specified webmaster referral linking code. S.I.C. Cash v.4 does not pay on web900 sign-ups.

. You may send traffic through our banners/text links, or you can make up your own banners or textlinks .

. By signing up you understand and acknowledge that S.I.C. Cash v.4 can and most likely will send out emails (newsletter) to all webmasters that join.

. You MAY send traffic via blind or deceiving links, Consoles, Thumbnail/ Pic Post, and MetaRefresh .

. You are only allowed 1 account with S.I.C. Cash v.4, if you set up more than 1 account, you may be subject to termination without pay!

. We DO NOT support or accept illegal sites (Child porn, Incest, Bestiality, Password Trading or Warez sites) to join our program and promote our sites!

. We DO NOT allow newsgroup or email spamming. Bottom line is if you spam, you will NOT get paid.

. We do not accept manipulated traffic or any traffic that interferes with the logical procession of our tours or consoles. Anyone found using a program to manipulate the traffic will be terminated.

. You may NOT hot link any of our banners from our server, if you do, you WILL be cancelled without pay.

. If you attempt to defraud our system by generating false or fraudulent hits or sign-ups, you will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. We monitor all hits and sign-ups to ensure they are not generated falsely.

. Payouts are processed weekly. There is a $50.00 minimum balance before a check will be sent. Any amount under $50 is carried over to the next pay period.

. S.I.C. Cash v.4 is not responsible for loss or downtime of servers.

. We reserve the right to terminate your account if it is idle for more than 30 days or for any reason we see fit.

. We reserve the right to change these terms and conditions at any notice, and you understand that it is your responsibility to check these rules often.

. If you signup to a paysite using your own linking code, we will consider your account to be fraud and you will not be paid at all. If you have any questions regarding your linking code, please contact JimW .

. Funds are paid in US funds.

Trial Signup Program

Payout Terms
$40.00 PS Email Brad For Special Approval
$35.00 PS Send 5 sign-ups each to 3 sites each pay period.
$30.00 PS Paid trials
$30.00 PS Flat MomsIwouldLiketoFuck Signups
$27.50 PS Paid trials non-console

$1 Trial Signup Program

Payout Terms
$30.00 PS Send 30 $1 trial sign-ups each pay period.
$25.00 PS Send 30 $1 non-console sign-ups each pay period.
$25.00 PS $1 trials
$20.00 PS $1 non-console

Webmaster Referral

Payout Terms
2.5% of revenue generated by referred webmaster. Webmaster Referrals

PS= Per Sign-up

Unless I missed it I dont see anywhere on there that they can drop payouts at anytime for non-converting. I look at that as a breach of the terms and conditions I signed up under when I joined SicCash. Greg maybe that needs to be added to your Terms?

[MrMaryLou]

I just dont see where if the webmaster is sending the traffic and the joins are not sticking how can it be there fault ? Sounds like members area issue to me

[Jim]

AcidMaX
There is such a fine line between an account being profitable or not profitable. You have to have the cross sales just to help supplement the program. There are just so many people out there cheating different programs, the line just keeps getting more and more narrow.

To me, SICCash hasn't done anything wrong. And like I said, if you don't like what they did, just stop sending traffic.

[AcidMaX]

Originally posted by Jim
AcidMaX
There is such a fine line between an account being profitable or not profitable. You have to have the cross sales just to help supplement the program. There are just so many people out there cheating different programs, the line just keeps getting more and more narrow.

To me, SICCash hasn't done anything wrong. And like I said, if you don't like what they did, just stop sending traffic.

Well we will agree to disagree. They just dynamically change how much they want to pay for their traffic without any negotiation or notice. Its just "Your are now being paid $20..." and thats it.

I sent the traffic, I sent the user, I did my job. It is their retention that needs to keep the user, I have no control over that yet I am being penalized for their inability to keep a member. When the webmasters have control over what is in the members area and what they have to retain members then I would think they can drop the payouts. Until then I have no control over it so I dont see how I should be penalized.

[Surfn]

" We reserve the right to change these terms and conditions at any notice, and you understand that it is your responsibility to check these rules often" - and they did

[AcidMaX]

Originally posted by Surfn
" We reserve the right to change these terms and conditions at any notice, and you understand that it is your responsibility to check these rules often" - and they did

I checked the rules this morning when I copied those terms. There is nothing on THOSE terms that state that the payouts can be dropped. They can change the "TERMS" at any notice, not the payouts. The TERMS were not changed as of 09:30 AM EST this morning.

[Jim]

Originally posted by AcidMaX
I checked the rules this morning when I copied those terms. There is nothing on THOSE terms that state that the payouts can be dropped. They can change the "TERMS" at any notice, not the payouts. The TERMS were not changed as of 09:30 AM EST this morning.

By giving you the information via email they met their responsibility.

[Wazza]

How can SIC make a judgement on a wm after only 10 sales? If an account becomes profitable in due course does SIC return that account to the original payout figure?

[AcidMaX]

Originally posted by Jim
By giving you the information via email they met their responsibility.

I disagree, their Terms & Conditions state...

". We reserve the right to change these terms and conditions at any notice, and you understand that it is your responsibility to check these rules often. "

It is my responsibility to check these rules often. That is not a rule. Their terms do not state that they can email you a new term as they see fit. It says to check "these rules often".

I think an attorney legally could argue either way although I really think their terms are pretty vague and could get them into trouble. I think they should enhance their terms to state that the terms could be modified in electronic mail format etc etc in order to cover their bases.

Fact of the matter is they do whatever the hell they feel like doing regardless of Terms & Conditions, etc. My point still stands I will promote them until I either dont receive a check from them, until my account gets removed for whatever reason or until they fall below .04 per click. I just think their reasoning is quite frankly bullshit. They make more money on the backend that us webmasters dont see from our traffic. I mean jesus I think I was only getting $25 a signup as opposed to $35-40 they pimp for high traffic webmasters.

I am more upset that they can just change what they want to pay. What stops them from saying, we will drop it down to $15 next or cancel my account all together. I could understand if I was frauding their program with self signups, proxy signups, etc etc, but these are legitimate users coming to their site. It's not my responsibility to keep them there. It is SicCash's responsibility and I should not get reduced in pay because their retention is low.

[Jim]

AcidMaX
I suspect that if they did just change the rule page and not send you an email you would be bitching even more. You, like anyone else, probably don't check the rule pages daily. If that was the case, they would have sent you a check for much less than you thought your were getting. Probably then, you would have checked the rule page and would have said, "they could have at least sent me an email". That would be a normal reaction for anyone.