enough with the 2257 scares!

ultraero · 2005-08-08, 11:03 PM

I ran into this on a sponsor site regarding the promotional content they were offering. It just seemed like a really crappy way of treating an affiliate. I buy allot of content, and worry about what I buy as to whether its legal, anyway don't want to rant but this was the message:
_______________________________

WARNING !

GxxxaCash DOES NOT automatically provide the legal paperwork (2257) for the content listed below. The use of this content is at your discretion. GxxxaCash will provide 2257 documentation to webmasters who have proven or can prove that they can generate a significant amount of sales as judged by us. To request the 2257 compliant content, please email us at 2257@gxxxacash.com.

is my response to this statement. How about some comments?

2005-08-09, 12:15 AM

So what doyou see as the alternative. give a models ID to anyone who asks for it?

This is the problem with verifying the content is legal. On one hand safety of the affiliates on the other the safety of the model and the future of the business.

Fewer models will work if they see their IDs going to 1,000s of affiliates.

furrygirl · 2005-08-09, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham2

So what doyou see as the alternative. give a models ID to anyone who asks for it?

This is the problem with verifying the content is legal. On one hand safety of the affiliates on the other the safety of the model and the future of the business.

Fewer models will work if they see their IDs going to 1,000s of affiliates.

Thank you!

Believe it or not, models can be quite intelligent folk who do network with each other on things like this. I look forward to the day that models start suing sites for giving away their personal information alongside free content. If the "be-a good-person" responsibility of safeguarding a model's personal information isn't enough of a motivator for some, then maybe the risk of civil suits and losing money will be.

For a gallery submitter, the 2257 scare means paperwork hassles. For a model, it could mean her safety or even her life. I'm not being melodramatic: models are stalked and harassed, online and in person, and it only gets more dangerous when you have sites so shit-scared of jail time that they will risk a model's life to avoid losing affiliates. That, unfortunately, is the very definition of the "evil money-grubbing pornographer" stereotype that so many of us try to break free of. And the way I see it, this is the exact kind of panicky-ass behavior that the 2257 laws were meant to inspire in us.

2005-08-09, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furrygirl

Thank you!

Believe it or not, models can be quite intelligent folk who do network with each other on things like this. I look forward to the day that models start suing sites for giving away their personal information alongside free content. If the "be-a good-person" responsibility of safeguarding a model's personal information isn't enough of a motivator for some, then maybe the risk of civil suits and losing money will be.

For a gallery submitter, the 2257 scare means paperwork hassles. For a model, it could mean her safety or even her life. I'm not being melodramatic: models are stalked and harassed, online and in person, and it only gets more dangerous when you have sites so shit-scared of jail time that they will risk a model's life to avoid losing affiliates. That, unfortunately, is the very definition of the "evil money-grubbing pornographer" stereotype that so many of us try to break free of. And the way I see it, this is the exact kind of panicky-ass behavior that the 2257 laws were meant to inspire in us.

Yes models network all thetime, they meet on castings, jobs and in agents offices. How long before one of them realises the cash cow in suing companies for giving out their IDs is the question. Or maybe some cute agent might hit on it.

A lawyer will just be doing an Acacia, pay up or go to court.

spookyx · 2005-08-09, 01:42 AM

At lotzadollars we don't base it on sales, we base it on the webmaster, we talk with them 1 on 1 before we decide to give out any model info. We also would never give out info on a model without her permission.

We also would not give out model info on purchased content unless we had permission to do so. I know this makes it hard on some webmasters but protecting the model is our #1 priority.

spookyx · 2005-08-09, 01:51 AM

furrygirl you have a pm

Tubey · 2005-08-10, 02:54 AM

Well, there seems to be good pros and cons on all sides, and I can see the day is coming for the online community to figure this out. To make it safe for the models, possible for the webmasters, fair to the newbies, and legal for all. This 2257 thing may or may not go through but it is clear this is a wake up call to come up with a solution. We may not like it but it is coming eventually. Models, producers, sponsors and webmasters need to come up with a way to satisfy all needs and concerns. We need to come up with a way before someone else, (who knows little about the business) does it for us.
With all that being said, ANYONE have any realistic ideas??

2005-08-10, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tubey

With all that being said, ANYONE have any realistic ideas??

Yes IDs and model releases are given out to purchasers of content who become Custodians of Records, the idea that someone can transfer this responsibility to a company/person outside the USA is stupid, or the appoint a lawyer to be Custodian.

The Custodian is responsible for keeping the records and a system that will cross reference the publishing/distribution points with the relevant documents. So he need to know which image relates to which ID.

Again the idea that a site with 1000 models can have 1000 sets of records unrelated again is stupid, especially if the content is given to 1000 affiliates. How it's tracked it simple, watermark the set with a set number then give it out or use the set number in the URL on sets you host.

This is the porn business and as mentioned before if we do not put our ship in order others will for us.

I would bet $100 to 1 cent that some of the content that was pulled down over the last year because IDs could not be produced when demanded contained illegal porn.

Think about that for a second if you pulled down teen porn that had no documents. Imagine standing in front of a policeman with a search warrant looking for under age models.

Linkster · 2005-08-10, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tubey

With all that being said, ANYONE have any realistic ideas??

The most realistic I can see is that the court that is reviewing the case right now reaffirms their previous stance and ruling when this came up years ago and WMs that post pictures are not counted as sec. producers and designate them only as distributors the same as a newstand selling a magazine.
That is also the most likely scenario which would pretty much leave things the way they have always been.

Tommy · 2005-08-10, 11:28 AM

I think content should cost a lot more money then it does

I think the cheap content should be 100.00 a set and good stuff going for 3 to 4 hundred

Linkster · 2005-08-10, 12:13 PM

Tommy - you know I agree with you and always have on the content issue cause I get sick of the money we used to have to spend to get shoots semi-exclusive or exclusive for AVS sites and promotional galleries etc - but it was just the cost of doing business and expected.

The biggest sponsors always had a little group of niche pics for general use, but none of it would get accepted at link lists or tgps cause it had been used hundreds of times before. The WMs that really wanted to try to make a go at the biz spent the money - the rest either gave up not realizing that it would cost money - or became the thieves and scammers that are still around stealing pics and vids.

SirMoby · 2005-08-10, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

I think content should cost a lot more money then it does

I think the cheap content should be 100.00 a set and good stuff going for 3 to 4 hundred

Exclusive content is that price. It's interesting that Matrix was brought up because Twistys and Medium Pimpin showed pure genius and made bundles on providing hosted galleries. Unfortunately Matrix lost huge amounts because over night all their content was everywhere. When I started I was happy to pay $80 a set but once it was being given away to every TGP it wasn’t worth buying.

Tubey · 2005-08-10, 07:22 PM

I think, and this is just a thought so far, that sponsors should give out some free content to new webmasters starting out on their program. Sort of a welcome package to get them started, not alot but something to help promote both the sponsor and the new webmaster. They could easily generate a random set from within one of their sites. But after that let them buy it.

2005-08-10, 11:28 AM	#10
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	I think content should cost a lot more money then it does I think the cheap content should be 100.00 a set and good stuff going for 3 to 4 hundred __________________ Accepting New partners

2005-08-10, 12:13 PM	#11
Linkster NO! Im not a female - but being a dragon, I do eat them. Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sex Delta Posts: 5,084	Tommy - you know I agree with you and always have on the content issue cause I get sick of the money we used to have to spend to get shoots semi-exclusive or exclusive for AVS sites and promotional galleries etc - but it was just the cost of doing business and expected. The biggest sponsors always had a little group of niche pics for general use, but none of it would get accepted at link lists or tgps cause it had been used hundreds of times before. The WMs that really wanted to try to make a go at the biz spent the money - the rest either gave up not realizing that it would cost money - or became the thieves and scammers that are still around stealing pics and vids. __________________ Pussy Chompers Porn Links NSCash

2005-08-08, 11:03 PM	#1
ultraero Internet! Is that thing still around? Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 3	enough with the 2257 scares! I ran into this on a sponsor site regarding the promotional content they were offering. It just seemed like a really crappy way of treating an affiliate. I buy allot of content, and worry about what I buy as to whether its legal, anyway don't want to rant but this was the message: _______________________________ WARNING ! GxxxaCash DOES NOT automatically provide the legal paperwork (2257) for the content listed below. The use of this content is at your discretion. GxxxaCash will provide 2257 documentation to webmasters who have proven or can prove that they can generate a significant amount of sales as judged by us. To request the 2257 compliant content, please email us at 2257@gxxxacash.com. is my response to this statement. How about some comments?

2005-08-09, 12:15 AM	#2
Paul Markham2 Guest Posts: n/a	So what doyou see as the alternative. give a models ID to anyone who asks for it? This is the problem with verifying the content is legal. On one hand safety of the affiliates on the other the safety of the model and the future of the business. Fewer models will work if they see their IDs going to 1,000s of affiliates.

2005-08-09, 01:42 AM	#5
spookyx Kodak Ghosts Run Amok Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hobbs End Posts: 1,718	At lotzadollars we don't base it on sales, we base it on the webmaster, we talk with them 1 on 1 before we decide to give out any model info. We also would never give out info on a model without her permission. We also would not give out model info on purchased content unless we had permission to do so. I know this makes it hard on some webmasters but protecting the model is our #1 priority.

2005-08-09, 01:51 AM	#6
spookyx Kodak Ghosts Run Amok Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hobbs End Posts: 1,718	furrygirl you have a pm

2005-08-10, 02:54 AM	#7
Tubey Are you sure you're an accredited and honored pornographer? Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 60	Well, there seems to be good pros and cons on all sides, and I can see the day is coming for the online community to figure this out. To make it safe for the models, possible for the webmasters, fair to the newbies, and legal for all. This 2257 thing may or may not go through but it is clear this is a wake up call to come up with a solution. We may not like it but it is coming eventually. Models, producers, sponsors and webmasters need to come up with a way to satisfy all needs and concerns. We need to come up with a way before someone else, (who knows little about the business) does it for us. With all that being said, ANYONE have any realistic ideas??

2005-08-10, 07:22 PM	#13
Tubey Are you sure you're an accredited and honored pornographer? Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 60	I think, and this is just a thought so far, that sponsors should give out some free content to new webmasters starting out on their program. Sort of a welcome package to get them started, not alot but something to help promote both the sponsor and the new webmaster. They could easily generate a random set from within one of their sites. But after that let them buy it.