Templates?

[CelticTiger]

I don't get it.

Every site out there is basically the same..... index (with recips) -> main -> galleries.

There are only so many ways you can build these sites. Sure you can change the graphics, colours and the backgrounds with different colours and images but the whole thing is basically the same.

Owners of a site may see the same templates over and over but be sure the surfers don't and even if they do - do they care? They're there for the free porn. Who cares if there templates? As long as the webmaster is honest.

Another thing - overused content? If the surfer sees the same porn pics over and over it's time for him to buy a membership and quit burning our bandwidth. Quit coddling the surfer.

The only thing link list owners should care about is cheaters who redirect and do other nasty things.

Only 2 or three ads per page.....no FPA's.....No Popups. WTF???? One fpa and one unchained pop up isn't too much to ask. We're here to sell memberships are we not? Quit making webmasters bend over and take it up the ass for a couple of hits (and thats all most of the LL's send anyway).

I suppose I'm gonna get flamed for this - needs to be said tho.

But as I said - I don't get it. Isn't ignorance bliss.

[MrMaryLou]

Templates are not gonna yeild you nothing but you said your self surfers looking for free porn you need to make your sites so they sell not to up surfers mice on auto pilot If your submitting sites to a LL and they all look the same and the loyal bookmarkers looking for the special somthing are just gonna go bye bye as soon as they see that same looking site that even goes for SE traffic if you making the same stuff day after day all of the sudden you got a ton of sites that all look alike As far as FPA and consoles those are not allowed and some or many link lists so if you want there traffic its simple follow the rules or move on to a place that will list them

[DangerDave]

[MrMaryLou]

DD I feel your pain

[Surfn]

Hi CelticTiger welcome to the board

You are right, the basic fundamentals of free site building are used by everyone. Everyone has access to the same content.

So what makes individual sites different? Style I can't emphasize that enough. If you copy someone else's style you are behind. Be creative and come up with your own style. If you think every other site on a list looks the same make yours different. Style does not mean ignoring the LL rules. It means using your brain thinking outside the box.

[TrafficFreak]

I think that each site that you make should look d8ifferent or surfers will get bored BOREDOM = NO SALES which can only hurt 1 person: YOU That is why it is called web building: because everytime you build something it should look different I mean think about it ... If all the houses in the world looked the same, wouldn't you get bored too LOL As for FPAs and pop ups ... You can build all the sites you want for Search Engines using these "nasty" tricks and that is why sponsors give them to you I think that link list owners have the right to expect a certain level of quality I mean, imagine if it was your list or your business, wouldn't you expect a certain level of quality too Well, this IS your business so build different ways, try different things and when something works, expand upon that but remember that there are a wide variety of ways to use the tools that are put in front of you ... Good luck!

************************
[Edited - TrafficFreak - one signature is enuff!]

[CelticTiger]

Glad to see I wasn't ripped apart from airing my views

I see your points - about style etc. and I like to think that I make some pretty spiffy freesites that get accepted nearly everywhere and I make sales off them. I just feel I could make more $$$'s if link list owners would loosen up and allow an fpa or a small pop up.

I don't mean putting an fpa before every page or full screen chained pop ups that you need to Alt + F4 to get out of - this ain't cool either but we are here to sell and these are sales tools which should be utilized and are effective if used properly. I know that I have to abide by the rules or not get listed and that it's the link list owners who have the final say at the end of the day.

I still stand by my point that if a surfer sees the same content over and over he/she is a freeloader and needs to be dealt with! Bookmarkers? Fine and dandy if you have a vast number of them - we all know there is power in numbers. But I think having a huge amount of bookmarkers is more of an ego trip than anything.

I know I'd rather have fewer bookmarkers and more sales.

[spacemanspiff]

I get the feeling that a lot of theories on the best way to build freesites (or any sites for that matter) are based more on conjecture and less on marketing theory, possibly mine included, although I do have a silly piece of paper that say's I'm suppose to know about that stuff. I look at it like this:

Surfers are looking for porn, not pretty sites. Using the same template can work for or against you. Just depends on the quality of your content, the personality of your site, who you're promoting and how, etc.

I could spout a bunch of crap about brand recognition, consumer confidence and loyalty, ad repetition before action, bla, bla, bla....

That being said, if you don't get traffic, you don't get sales, so you still have to adhere to the rules of the places you want to get listed at. If the link list owners want different looking sites, then build different looking sites.

SS

[CelticTiger]

Originally posted by spacemanspiff
That being said, if you don't get traffic, you don't get sales, so you still have to adhere to the rules of the places you want to get listed at. If the link list owners want different looking sites, then build different looking sites.

This is my point.....we are constrained by the LL owners who won't allow us to use (within reason) effective marketing methods to the best of our ability. Their traffic their rules......less sales.

Same goes for some TGP owners. The hun for example is a pain in the ass - ever take a look at what he lists? He lists pretty crappy galleries - unless your paying him $$$'s. I make great galleries that never get listed - I then purposely put together the crappiest gallery I could with little chance of selling to the surfer and bingo - he lists me. I have to make ugly galleries just for him nowadays just to get his traffic which it seems he likes to keep.

Can I have some cheese to go with my whine please?

[soggy]

Its all about keeping the surfer happy and trusted in you. I had a hard time years ago with this also but now its pretty easy. If you are Joe Surfer and you click on of a couple of GGs links and are sent to popups and blind links sooner or later Joe Surfer wont go back to GG cause he knows what he is going to get. Its all about selling from your free site to where Joe Surfer really wants to go. If you are forcing something on Joe Surfer he doesnt really want your just waisting BW IMHO. Hope that clears it up a little.

soggy

[DangerDave]

CelticTiger

Umm what exactly is your point..? That people don't list your stuff? I am sorry but I dont see that as a "problem" for LL and TGP owners..

Every few months someone comes along and tells us that we should accept pop-ups, FPAs etc.. and everytime we tell them it aint gonna happen.

we are constrained by the LL owners

NO your not.. you are constrained only by your own ability to fit with the market and make sales.. pls dont blame us for problems you may have.

I make great galleries that never get listed

?Who says they are "great"? You? That is your opinion.. not a fact.

just to get his traffic which it seems he likes to keep.

"he" has spent "his" time and effort getting that traffic.. why does he owe you anything? I would say... like most people that "have" traffic... they are free to do with it what they think.


Lets put your scenario into into "practice" for a minute...

I go and add a pop up and an FPA to every site I own.. GG does the same, MML does the same, etc etc..

Do you seriously think that the only effect would be more sales?

I would disagree strongly.. the only effect would be loss of traffic for the LL owners, and of course that means loss of traffic to all submitters... and that means sales for no one.


As has always been the case... you can go and pop as many consoles as you like, and hammer the surfer with FPAs, and give em dialers, and change their home pages, etc etc...

... but the one and only thing we ask.. is that you DONT submit that site to us... thats it!

DD

[CelticTiger]

Umm what exactly is your point..? That people don't list your stuff? I am sorry but I dont see that as a "problem" for LL and TGP owners..

No...that's not my problem. As I stated I get listed almost everywhere - you yourself list me - thank you very much

NO your not.. you are constrained only by your own ability to fit with the market and make sales.. pls dont blame us for problems you may have.

I wasn't really blaming anyone.....I simply was trying to see the reasoning behind all the rules which imo seem to be constraining which result in less sales. I didn't say I don't make sales. I'm very pleased with sales - I just think we could make more rather than treat every surfer as if we were afraid to hurt their feelings. Are we here to sell porn or give it away for free?

Who says they are "great"? You? That is your opinion.. not a fact.

Yes this is my opinion and my opinion stands. I make great freaking galleries Is that so hard to believe? You like them too - you list them fairly often. They're so great I find them copied by a few webmasters. They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery Why waste my time building galleries that don't sell? Also if I say it 5 times it becomes the truth

"he" has spent "his" time and effort getting that traffic.. why does he owe you anything?

I never said he owed me anything. Or did I? Let me read my post again......Nope - I just said that I have to make ugly galleries just for him to get his traffic which it seems he likes to keep....this is true. I play the game. I take my hat off to the guy, credit where credit is due.....he still only lists crappy galleries Again just my opinion.

I would say... like most people that "have" traffic... they are free to do with it what they think.

As I stated - "Their traffic their rules" - I still think it means less sales tho. This is what I don't understand, rules that will decrease your ability to make a sale. I still willingly play by them.

Lets put your scenario into into "practice" for a minute...
I go and add a pop up and an FPA to every site I own.. GG does the same, MML does the same, etc etc..

As I said these are sales tools and used effectively can yield good results......did I say slap them up all over the place? When I get a surfer in my territory he gets the works......nothing nasty but I make his stay uncomfortable if he doesn't go where I want him too I like to think that I squeeze every penny outta each surfer I get. If he doesn't try a pps he gets offered a free trial and then an email program if the feckin gobshite still doesn't bit he sent to a per click sponor or to a top list. I'm here to make money not give away free porn. You hear over and over that theres too much free porn around. Why? Bescause there is. Unfortunately I'm as guilty as the next man/woman but we all need to diversify and use every traffic generation technique out there......still have to feed the kids.

Do you seriously think that the only effect would be more sales?

YES

I would disagree strongly

Your right to do so.

the only effect would be loss of traffic for the LL owners, and of course that means loss of traffic to all submitters... and that means sales for no one.

Now thats just silly talk. Loss of traffic.....maybe but using fpas and unobtrusive pop ups etc. will increase sales even if traffic is reduced.....this is the bottom line for me.

How do I know this? I run a fake link list and a fake tgp. My traffic is NOTHING compared to GG's etc. but my income from sites listed at my own link list and tgp far exceed sites listed at other spots. Not to mention my bookmarkers (as much as I hate the the f*ckers ) continue to grow.

As has always been the case... you can go and pop as many consoles as you like, and hammer the surfer with FPAs, and give em dialers, and change their home pages, etc etc...

... but the one and only thing we ask.. is that you DONT submit that site to us... thats it!

Now wasn't that just dripping with sarcasm! Did I say hammer them with Fpa's? Did say anything about dialers or changing homepages? No. I don't think they are very effective methods. I leave this to the useless tits who have to resort to these methods to make any kind of living.

When I submit a free site or gallery you can believe that most of them get listed everywhere and that they abide by all the rules. I never said I was averse to extra traffic

When I build them for myself I have a better chance of making that sale. Why because I allow myself to my job. Sell porn memberships to the best of my abilities.

I'll keep doing both.