I just "broke" the penisbot captcha... Further to the Captcha discussion...

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by KG Gary

and I like Abba.

Me too!

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Licker4U

Cost effective? Sure it is. I've cut way back but for over a year I hand submitted to around 90 link lists. It took about an hour and a half. I can build a site in 3 hours and with the manual submission I was through in 5 hours. Cost effective? Sure, especially with the good will developed with quite a few link lists.

Now, are you trying to educate link list owners that there is a flaw in their captchas or educate submitters on how to defeat the captchas?

Is it cost effective? So how much do you actually make for those 5 hours? If you're not making at least $50 an hour then I'm sorry to say it's simply not... I've seen some very long time submitters post saying the same thing you have.. Doing a site a day and hand submitting.. They've publicly stated that their income from that is $1500 - $2000 a month, MAYBE $3000.. That's not cost effective, that's hobby money.

Did I say how to defeat the catpcha? No... Seems pretty clear to me...

[Viper]

Originally Posted by D2222

I guess you don't do TGP's

Yeah I do.. what's your point? If you're putting any of your time into it then it's not "free"... Everything costs something.. What's your time worth?

[JackDaniel's]

[Viper]

Originally Posted by KG Gary

I agree with Licker4U's comments, especially the good will issue. I'm here for the long haul and building good relationships with link list owners is vital. What happens when those smaller link lists grow? I'd like to be able to say that I helped build up someone's business and they helped build mine.

How are they penalized? Not much will stop me from submitting my free sites, always by hand, especially a 30 second code issue. It's not a penalty, it's a great way to get quality traffic.
Is there some new way of doing this that that will make the link list owners' lives easier? Will it make my submitting a lot more fluid?
You sound either really bitter about something or you sound like you have a product to push somewhere down the line.

Man, spending an hour and a half breaking those codes, you could have built a decent freesite in that time!
Oh, and I'm a full-time submitter, approaching 500 freesites in almost two years, very few declines, I have five children and I like Abba.


Congrats on the big 100 horney!

Never mind.. It's not worth responding to other than to say I don't have a product and won't have a product related to this.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

I think you're whining because you're making such a big deal out of nothing. While captcha may not be the final solution to LL owners' woes it does for a fact cut out a significant percentage of the crap and I fail to see that it's such an inconvenience to submitters. You may be enough of a wiz kid to fool my script (or anybody else's), but if you had done your homework and checked my Alexa ranking you would have known it was a waste of time in the first place.

Just get over it. If you're as experienced in this business as you say you are, you must know by now that there's actually some work involved.

You can preach the benefits of autosubmitting 'til you're blue in the face, but I don't think you're gonna find many converts here.

Go back and read what I've actually been attempting to communicate... Nowhere have I preached the benifits of auto-submitting...

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Viper

Go back and read what I've actually been attempting to communicate...

Please state what you are trying to communicate. I've read this thread a bunch of times and you are the only one I'm not following.

Before you do to me what you've done to my friends, Lemmy and Sheepguy - I'm not claiming to have any traffic. There, now you don't have to insult my abilities or my lists.

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by Viper

Go back and read what I've actually been attempting to communicate... Nowhere have I preached the benifits of auto-submitting...

Originally Posted by Viper

I think you're biased by this forum... Do you submit freesites to say 50 LLs a day? If you did you'd soon realize that it's not cost effective to do it by hand...

I don't know how else to interpret this.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Please state what you are trying to communicate. I've read this thread a bunch of times and you are the only one I'm not following.

Before you do to me what you've done to my friends, Lemmy and Sheepguy - I'm not claiming to have any traffic. There, now you don't have to insult my abilities or my lists.

Usually I just ignore those that "attack" me first but as I said, my patience level for that today is very low... You've called me "names" in the past.. Thanks for not jumping on the bandwagon... yet...

I would think it's very clear what I'm trying to communicate.. Captcha, partner signups.. None of that is going to stop what you're trying to stop.. In fact, it tends to make it worse as you end up getting less "real" people sending you submissions.. So your % of crap to good goes up... Also, if you're not seeing what the cheaters are submitting, then it makes it harder to actually catch them... The phrase about keeping your enemies closer does actually apply here as well.

In the other thread I gave a list of some solutions to the problems of cheaters and auto-submitters.. In this thread I've said clearly that all those solutions should be part of the software you use and that if the LL owners actually discussed this and realized that the tools they're using are inadequate, they could get the software companies to build better tools for them... Keep in mind that I know that not ALL of the LLs have crap tools... The top few LLs are going to have some good tools.. but it's all the other LL owners I'm atempting but clearly failing at reaching.

You know... why the fuck do I even care... Truth is.. the more failures there are out there the more money I (and the big LLS owners) can make.. and I should have known better than try and have this sort of discussion on this board... I'm going to respond to Lemmy again and then go eat something and relax..

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

I don't know how else to interpret this.

That's hillarious.. you take those 9 words and ignore everything else I've said including a bunch of solutions to cheaters etc. I put in that other thread.. Way to go!!!!!

Yep.. at this point, it's simply not cost effective to submit to the majority of the LLs out there by hand... In fact, I was going to make some posts about how some of you smaller LL owners could adapt and get more traffic into your sites to actually make it cost effective which would benifit everyone.. But given the repsonses to date it's clearly not going to be worth it...

It's a shame really... On a couple other boards people love it when I post this type of information, advice, write some script for them to use or write an "article" about some WM topic etc. This board just has a really weird attitude about things. You just can't rock the status quo.

[secretagentwilly]

I should probably stay out of this, but against my better judgment I just want to say that each forum is going to have it's core group of contributors and that's more than likely because they've networked with each other and have a similar ideology and code of conduct and have stayed in the biz over time when the majority of webmasters drop like flies ...I could totally see what you're saying about other boards wanting hacks and shortcuts...I belong to those forums too and I go to those forums when I'm looking for that information...this isn't that forum...GG&J is a peer evaluated/governed community that play by the same rules. If you're not down with the LL rules, you're probably not going to last...there's not really short cuts to be had in this community from what I've seen and I like that...people don't give out software codes/serials and they don't see what scams they can conjure to convert the surfers for the short term...it's about building quality content for the long term...and a good quality freesite might hang around for a while and get you those conversions two+ years down the road...that's residual income you don't get when you scam...that's just my two cents...best of luck to you...

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Viper

Usually I just ignore those that "attack" me first but as I said, my patience level for that today is very low..

Do you honestly consider my request for clarification an attack?

Originally Posted by Viper

I would think it's very clear what I'm trying to communicate.. Captcha, partner signups.. None of that is going to stop what you're trying to stop..

No - it's not clear. Admitting that you've created a hack to bypass Penisbot's captcha, which is probably the simplest and clearest in the business, does not communicate anything other than your foolishness by publicly announcing such a thing. But that tends to be the hacker's mindset, that whole "I hacked your site to show you that it wasn't secure" mentality.

Originally Posted by Viper

In fact, it tends to make it worse as you end up getting less "real" people sending you submissions..

That makes zero sense. None at all.

Originally Posted by Viper

So your % of crap to good goes up... Also, if you're not seeing what the cheaters are submitting, then it makes it harder to actually catch them... The phrase about keeping your enemies closer does actually apply here as well.

Ah! So making it simpler for the cheaters will actually make our lives easier and more profitable. That makes sense. Oh wait - no it doesn't.

Originally Posted by Viper

In this thread I've said clearly that all those solutions should be part of the software you use and that if the LL owners actually discussed this and realized that the tools they're using are inadequate, they could get the software companies to build better tools for them... Keep in mind that I know that not ALL of the LLs have crap tools... The top few LLs are going to have some good tools.. but it's all the other LL owners I'm atempting but clearly failing at reaching.

You clearly don't know what tools any of us use. Yet you are telling us that our scripts are insufficient? Why would you complain about our tools if WE aren't?

You never see the big traffic guys complaining about being flooded with auto submissions and you obviously have no respect for the smaller lists. So I'm not sure why you are complaining.

Originally Posted by Viper

You know... why the fuck do I even care... Truth is.. the more failures there are out there the more money I (and the big LLS owners) can make..

Are you having a bad day? Is that what this all comes down to?

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by Viper

That's hillarious.. you take those 9 words and ignore everything else I've said including a bunch of solutions to cheaters etc. I put in that other thread.. Way to go!!!!!

No, not ignoring, but putting into context. You're bitching about some simple, non-intrusive security measures, bragging about breaking PB's captcha AND saying that handsubmission is waste of time.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Do you honestly consider my request for clarification an attack?

I was refering to your friends and my response to them (which you refered to), not you...

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

No - it's not clear.

Maybe you need re-read as well and actually have an open mind.... what did I say in that very first post.. "...to educate....".. I also said in the title "...further to the Captcha discussion...", which, if you take the time to read and comprehend, I outline how easy it is to break these systems and I outline a few other far better methods that can be used to combat the problem of cheaters...

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Admitting that you've created a hack to bypass Penisbot's captcha, which is probably the simplest and clearest in the business, does not communicate anything other than your foolishness by publicly announcing such a thing.

Interesting way to interpret my post.. But the reality is that when people have their heads in the sand or don't want to admit something to themselves, it's the only way to actually get them to look at it.. by showing them.. Pretty simple thing to undersand...

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

But that tends to be the hacker's mindset, that whole "I hacked your site to show you that it wasn't secure" mentality.

So now two of you are lumping me in with hackers.. that's just hillarious and extremely far from the truth... But typical of people that have a lynch mob mentality.. pretty soon you're going to be calling me a thief... Or better yet, you'll just start calling me names when you run out of arguments.. Oh wait.. I have yet to see any real discussion, just mostly statements of dismisal... If I was a hacker, I'd be posting on the board about selling the code to someone... Just ridiculous...

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

That makes zero sense. None at all.

I'm sorry that you're unable to grasp the concept.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Ah! So making it simpler for the cheaters will actually make our lives easier and more profitable. That makes sense. Oh wait - no it doesn't.

ummm... what part of "you're not stopping the real cheaters anyway" are you not getting??? And yeah, it does make perfect sense if you actually have a back end that handles it... I guess you didn't read the other thread either and how my own custom software does a shit load of things for me so that I can actually accept submissiosn without captcha or partner accounts...

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

You clearly don't know what tools any of us use. Yet you are telling us that our scripts are insufficient? Why would you complain about our tools if WE aren't?

You're making assumptions that I don't know what your tools can do... Pretty funny... You aren't complaining because you don't realize, or never think about the fact that, you could have better tools.. You think that what you have is fantastic.. You'll just take whatever you're given and thank them..

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

You never see the big traffic guys complaining about being flooded with auto submissions and you obviously have no respect for the smaller lists. So I'm not sure why you are complaining.

As I said, I suspect the bigger traffic guys have better custom tools themselves to do a bunch of the things I've mentioned.. oh wait.. they actually run a successfull business and so can have employees.. They can hire cheap labour if they want to do reviews for them... but the smaller ones can't afford that...

I'm not complaining.... I'm trying to "help" but I guess you can't help people who are stuck in a rut and can't see over the edge of it.. or don't want to be helped because they like working for peanuts.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Are you having a bad day? Is that what this all comes down to?

You must have a bad day every day then.. I'm just playing along with the rest of you that like to "attack" people for having opinions and a point of view different than yours.

You guys are hillarious... 37 replies in this thread and not one of you has actually even attempted to discuss the issue of cheaters and auto-submitters... Even if you think I'm full of shit I would have thought someone would have attempted to talk about it... But you're just happy to attack me instead... I guess if I was a good ol' LL boy things would be different... Oh well.. been a long time since I've been in a good pissing match.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

No, not ignoring, but putting into context. You're bitching about some simple, non-intrusive security measures, bragging about breaking PB's captcha AND saying that handsubmission is waste of time.

With the pure quantity of shit I've said in this and the other thread you choose to put it into that context.. Sad...

Yep.. hand submission IS a waste of time if the ROI isn't there.. Pretty basic business sense.. How could anyone not understand that...

I wasn't "bragging"... As I said in the title of this thread, this was a continuation of that other thread... I was pointing out how fast and easy it was to break it.. In other words.. If I can do it, then every serious cheater out there has done it and is submitting to all those link lists.. So it's basically a waste of time for everyone...

[hashbury]

Dammit theres way to many quotes going on in here.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Viper

You must have a bad day every day then.. I'm just playing along with the rest of you that like to "attack" people for having opinions and a point of view different than yours.

I still have not attacked you and I don't intend to. I have no problem with people having opinions. What exactly is yours?

Originally Posted by Viper

You guys are hillarious... 37 replies in this thread and not one of you has actually even attempted to discuss the issue of cheaters and auto-submitters... Even if you think I'm full of shit I would have thought someone would have attempted to talk about it... But you're just happy to attack me instead... I guess if I was a good ol' LL boy things would be different... Oh well.. been a long time since I've been in a good pissing match.

What is there to discuss? You found a way to bypass a TINY security measure on a submit form of a link list. Good you for you. What does that accomplish? Do you think that you are the first? Don't you realize that many of those little captchas can already be deciphered by auto-submission software, and don't you realize that we all know that? This isn't breaking news. If anything, it's old news. I'm sorry, but you are no pioneer in the highly lucrative field of submission form security.

There is nothing to discuss. Just because you think there is, doesn't make it so.

[Useless]

I missed this point while I was skimming through your rantings, but I really should address it.

Originally Posted by Viper

ummm... what part of "you're not stopping the real cheaters anyway" are you not getting??? And yeah, it does make perfect sense if you actually have a back end that handles it... I guess you didn't read the other thread either and how my own custom software does a shit load of things for me so that I can actually accept submissiosn without captcha or partner accounts...

So your point is that your script is better than everyone else's, even though you admit that you don't know which tools everyone else emloys? Has it even occurred to you that many link lists don't care about auto submitters, even if they don't say so publicly? Has it occurred to you that other link list owners know how to detect proxies, track IPs, record the time lapsed during a submission and a number of other truly dull things? Has it occurred to you that most link lists just don't care, that they realize that it doesn't amount to a hill of beans and really isn't worth stressing over?

Let me explain something to you. I don't use captcha on either of my lists. I do employ partner accounts on one list for the same reason that many other lists do - not to dissuade cheaters, but to limit my daily submissions. Many of us don't feel the need to have every single free site builder submit to us.

[SheepGuy]

Don't see how I attacked you either, I'm so confused, I'm like, Useless
But man, bringing up those Alexa stats really hurts
What exactly is it that you do for a living?
And more importantly, can you get me some shrooms? I really like the panthera, the greenish ones you make tea with.

[SheepGuy]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Many of us don't feel the need to have every single free site builder submit to us.

Amen!

[Useless]

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

I'm so confused, I'm like, Useless

You know what my biggest point of confusion is? Why on Earth would a free site submitter start a thread announcing that they deliberately looked for a way to bypass kit's catpcha? Why not simply email him asking him to blacklist you at both of his very successful link lists?

[SheepGuy]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

You know what my biggest point of confusion is? Why on Earth would a free site submitter start a thread announcing that they deliberately looked for a way to bypass kit's catpcha? Why not simply email him asking him to blacklist you at both of his very successful link lists?

Probably the mushrooms
I could tell ya stories about them mushrooms
But they wear off, why try to piss everyone else off ?
I'd really like to know what the guy actually does for a living. I'm thinking it's not in the sales business.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I missed this point while I was skimming through your rantings, but I really should address it.So your point is that your script is better than everyone else's, even though you admit that you don't know which tools everyone else emloys? Has it even occurred to you that many link lists don't care about auto submitters, even if they don't say so publicly? Has it occurred to you that other link list owners know how to detect proxies, track IPs, record the time lapsed during a submission and a number of other truly dull things? Has it occurred to you that most link lists just don't care, that they realize that it doesn't amount to a hill of beans and really isn't worth stressing over?

Let me explain something to you. I don't use captcha on either of my lists. I do employ partner accounts on one list for the same reason that many other lists do - not to dissuade cheaters, but to limit my daily submissions. Many of us don't feel the need to have every single free site builder submit to us.

You're just trying to justify yourself and doing it with contradictor statements.. You say you don't care about autosubmitters and then you say you don't feel the need to have every single free site builder submit to you... So do you care or don't you? make up your mind.. or do you even know?

The fact that many LLs say in their rules "If I catch you auto submitting I'll ban you".. or they implement captcha.. or something else clearly indicates that they are concerned about it and they don't like having to deal with it.... if you truly don't care (or are just spewing crap), then step out of the discussion since it's not for you and you add nothing to it...

[Viper]

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

What exactly is it that you do for a living?

I've already preety much said in this and the other thread...

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

You know what my biggest point of confusion is? Why on Earth would a free site submitter start a thread announcing that they deliberately looked for a way to bypass kit's catpcha? Why not simply email him asking him to blacklist you at both of his very successful link lists?

I'm not actually what I would consider a free site submitter.. I do it occasionally.. The majority of my time is spent on other things..

I won't even address your last point since I've already answered it multiple times but it's obviously over your head...