Visa pulling out of adult altogether??

[Ms Naughty]

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,63799,00.html

"The first big blow came last year, when PayPal decided to stop helping adult sites do business, leaving customers without easy ways to pay for access through checking accounts. Then, last month, major credit-processing company Cardservice International told clients that it would stop supporting the industry as of late June. Now, webmasters worry that Visa will follow the lead of American Express, which left the business in 2000."

OK... so this is only one line in a Wired story. Before I start running around, engaging the panic circuits and yelling "I'm a teapot, I'm a teapot", can someone suggest where Wired got this idea from?

[Fonz]

let's all get down on our knees and pray this isn't true

[Extreme John]

I would imagine that at some point, maybe not in the very near future something along these lines will happen.

It's bullshit, sadly bullshit that we cant control.

[ASF]

That would be extremly hurtful to the adult industy, and un-wise on Visa's part. The adult industry is alway the first, to come up with new technologies that drive the internet.

Sex does sell, we all no that otherwise we would not be doing what we all do! However at something in the 5-10 Billion dollars year rate of online tansactions just for porn, Visa would certainly be prettty stupid to let that kind of money go.

MHO,

-ASF

http://www.adultsexfactory.com

[Surfn]

We would need to revisit what we did before sponsors and CC processing.

[Jim]

I have been hearing this for a bunch of years but...at this point, who the hell knows? One thing for sure...it would suck.

[susanna]

yup it would suck....

there are other ways to get people to pay but they are inferior. People are not used to waiting 10 days to get into a site (while they mail a cheque to the site owner) |rasta|

Although in every vacuum opportunity arises. Someone will come up with something. There is always prepaid tickets but then how does one purchase them... at the porn shop?

[Bill]

Wired had reporters at cybernext in san diego. They ran several articles about the adult industry based on scuttlebutt they picked up there.

Visa has been "just about to drop adult" for two years now, ever since american express did it.

It could definitely happen- so make sure you set aside some profits to get thru the crunch if it does.

[SandWalker]

It would sting for sure, but after the initial fallout, I think the adult industry would be better for it. Who the hell wants to keep dealing with a company that doesn't want your business and makes you jump through hoops and pay continuous fees for the priviledge, all the while telling YOU how to run your business?? Do you know of another business like that?

ACH is getting better with verification, and other billing alternatives are becoming available like 123bill which verifies age and doesn't require a credit card.

I'm already encouraging users to use alt billing methods to lesson the sting when it does eventually come.

[Rand]

Originally posted by grandmascrotum
[url]...Now, webmasters worry that Visa will follow the lead of American Express, which left the business in 2000."

OK... so this is only one line in a Wired story. Before I start running around, engaging the panic circuits and yelling "I'm a teapot, I'm a teapot", can someone suggest where Wired got this idea from?

They got this idea from webmaster boards just like this one. They got this idea from webmasters just like those of you reading this thread.

webmasters worry that Visa will follow the lead of American Express

I can make a educated guess that Wired did not talk to anyone at Visa or MasterCard. Both associataions want to be the curreny of the Internet and that means allowing their customers to buy what they want to buy. Of all the things that people charge to their credit cards, dirty digital downloadable pictures is not something the card assoications have any concern about. They only care about issuing cards, protecting their brand, and making money.

The sky is not falling for those who run legitimate honest programs. For those that do not, your time is short.

[kristian]

Originally posted by Rand
They got this idea from webmaster boards just like this one. They got this idea from webmasters just like those of you reading this thread.

webmasters worry that Visa will follow the lead of American Express

I can make a educated guess that Wired did not talk to anyone at Visa or MasterCard. Both associataions want to be the curreny of the Internet and that means allowing their customers to buy what they want to buy. Of all the things that people charge to their credit cards, dirty digital downloadable pictures is not something the card assoications have any concern about. They only care about issuing cards, protecting their brand, and making money.

The sky is not falling for those who run legitimate honest programs. For those that do not, your time is short.

Well said. I think we have to try and view it possitively. By removing more unscrupulous programs, this might actually lead to a rise in overall revenue.

[becky]

I agree with you Rand. Visa only wants to do business with serious companies. They want to know who you are and what you sell, as they should. They want you to get some skin in the game by paying a yearly registration so they can know who you are. This is a step in the right direction to getting rid of the dishonest individuals and companies that are giving the rest of the indsutry a bad rep. It doesn't mean that they want to stop doing business with the adult industry all together.

[KCat]

Why would they instate the $750 registration plus additional money every year if they wanted out of adult altogether? Webmasters are cleaning up their acts & chargebacks are lower then they ever have been. It doesn't make sense to get out when it's never been easier for Visa.

If anything, I could see them bumping up their percentage for online transactions, since they already have us all registered. What do they take now? 3.5% or something?

I think Visa is making every effort to maintain adult processing just for the reason stated here: they want to make their customers happy by allowing them to purchase anything they want. This is why they've imposed strict regulations rather than pull out altogether; at least at this point. It is a mistake, however, to think adult is more than a drop in the massive bucket of retail purchases. I think those outweigh porn/adult purchases by 70-80 billion dollars last I read. If they decided to pull out of adult, the reduce in risk would be a benefit over and above any 10 billion dollar loss.

[Rictor]

VISA doesn't process for gambling sites and they do okay. We'd just have to start accepting alternative payment methods like gambling sites do. Firepay, NetTeller, Epassporte, etc.

[Dravyk]

I'm with Rand and Becky. If VISA wanted out, they would have been out by now, they would have done an "AmEx". The fact they have slowly increased the percent issue, worked with ISPSs demonstrates a strong desire to work with the industry for the long-term.

[The Other Steve]

Originally posted by ASF
The adult industry is alway the first, to come up with new technologies that drive the internet.


MHO,

-ASF

http://www.adultsexfactory.com

That may have been true once - and a lot of people in the adult industry still like to believe it perhaps because it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy - but it just ain't so these days.

Take a wander around a few mainstream marketing boards - look at some of the other innovative places around the Net and you will see that porn is starting to drop behind in marketing and lots of other areas too.

Even the low-life out there in mainstream make the adult toolbar scammers look like amateurs.

[Feynman]

Anyone ever tried egold as payment method?

Visa is not cash payment. They act as escrow agent, and thus, any problem bites them back.

But so are all other credit cards.

By charging more, charging upfront, and charging all the time, I have a hunch they are playing a dangerous poker game and have a good chance of winning.

Gold transactions are not reversible, for they exchange tangible assets, not promises to pay.

The present monetary system is devoid of true lawful money of account (as per definition). What is used as money is promises to pay money. Take any bill from the any central bank: they are bank notes. Note: an unconditional promise to pay. Pay what? The promise to pay itself.

Gold one of the few true hard currencies. Unfortunately, it's a hassle to use at the moment.

[grand]

the internet needs/will stabalize like any other industry. Only big corps will stay and the smaller guys will be weeded out and end up working for the big guys, thus weeding out the cheaters....no reason this business shouldn't run like any other.

[Feynman]

Can we conclude from your post that small guys are necessarily cheaters and large corps are necessarily non-cheaters?

To cheat is to go against the rules and/or expectations. Who makes the rules and who creates the expectations ?

Why are bigger corps less susceptible to cheat?

Heck the system is built to protect them !

Is that the role of govt to protect people against their own idiocy, this done at the expense of non-idiot people ?


The Matrix has you...

[grand]

I’m not implying that one (small or big guy) is more likely to cheat, I agree that a cheater is a cheater regardless of size…I think that the smaller guy (independent tgp/free site builder) is getting squeezed out. If you do not control a decent amount of traffic, as well as control where that traffic is going then I don’t think you are in a good position.

In the current model programs depend on affiliates for traffic and sales, as well as generating sales and traffic “in house”. I think that this will change and these programs will no longer need affiliates, they will generate from within, and that is why I believe that the “smaller guys” will end up working directly for these programs….
|rasta|

[Ms Naughty]

While Visa's strongarm tactics may be weeding out shady operators, it's also put pressure on many smaller paysite operators who were offering quality content and really are catering to their surfers - the obscure niche sites and the mom and pop amateurs. Many times these smaller sites offer better value than the larger sites created by big corporations.

I guess it's one of those industry consolidation things. The little guy is squeezed out by big corporations, but it means the consumer ultimately loses out because there's less choice.

[Feynman]

Replying to Grand

Thanks.

I'll ponder on that. But I'm not sure it will work that way. This entails that companies will be able to produce a very large variety of content, that every company will strive to become the latest wal-mart. But I'm not convinced the model applies to the internet as well as it does to meatspace. Heck, I'm not even sure the Wal-Mart concept will last. As systems complexify, they become less and less manageable.

The internet is fairly new, and new people are getting on it everyday. The public did not settle yet into a stable usage pattern, and they will not as long as the technologies change, opening new opportunities for entry-level people. The businesspeople did not settle yet either. How long has it been since you've seen a new marketing scheme in meatspace? There's probably a new one that emerged last week on the net, and maybe another one the week before last...

But this reply is very rhetorical. In fact, I haven't got a clue.

[Feynman]

Originally posted by grandmascrotum

I guess it's one of those industry consolidation things. The little guy is squeezed out by big corporations, but it means the consumer ultimately loses out because there's less choice.

Hey Grand'ma !

You just mentionned helped me clarify my previous post's vision...

It's very tempting to equating e-space with meatspace, thinking that e-Wal-Mart of porn will emerge and squash everyone.

But...

In meatspace, the client base is fairly captive for geographical/commuting reasons. In e-space, it is different. I'm not sure the above prediction will realise itself.

While there is some consolidation in e-space, I think that one reason for so many failures of small operators is that they were akin the gold rush operators: most of them seeked surface gold. Now that the surface gold is done, you need education (an engineer's or geologist education) to understand where to find the gold, because no surface gold exist to be easily found. These people tend to be employed in larger businesses, agreed, but tehre is still plenty of room for wildcatters, solo operators exploiting precise knowledge to make money in more narrowly defined trades. Yet, many mom-and-pop consulting business do exist and thrive, many single-owner retail shop live well and nicely. If they offer the same stuff as wal-mart, they'll die. If they don't, they'll thrive.

Another point. Novel payments system, like micro-payments might open an entirely new way of doing business.

Remember ten years ago when calling Europe was 35 cents per minute? Each calls were done in a hurry, etc. Now, you can pay only a few cents. This changed the relationship between small distributors and small suppliers, between purchasers of service and outside contractors.

Innovation never ceases, and change always happens. The universe is a dynamic entity. How many mice can move freely going their own business in between two elephants? (OK, the metaphor might be defective for reason of specie's choice... )