If You promote SIC CASH on your LL You Better Watch

[GunnCat]

Greg you should have ponied up and paid Plate. You have probably spent more than $55 worth of your time not to mention the aggravation. As for you Plate, I can relate. I need every dime I make, and waiting to reach the minimum for a payout is a lesson in patience for sure.

[Mishi]

Originally Posted by Netpiddler

That's a tough break plateman... When you are still making your way in the biz every penny counts - but it isn't always about the money (if it is you will have a hard time indeed).

There is always another sponsor just as there are always other webmasters.

ARS accused me of fraud a couple years ago when my conversions started hovering around 1:12.

I sent them an email which basically said "Fine - your loss"... It took me less than 15 minutes to find another sponsor which not only never bitched about my great conversions - they gave me a job.

ARS lost out on tens of thousands of dollars in sales from me since that time. No big deal to them - they always have more webmasters. No big deal to me - there is always another sponsor.

This business is all about leveraging your time and effort and others' time and effort. A lot of wasted energy has went into this thread, so I hope it teaches someone out there something.

- Netpiddler

Nice post, Netpiddler

I've had conversion ratios of 1:1 and 1:2 (that's sales to clicks). It tends to happen when I'm first promoting a site and sending pure, straight-off-the-linklist traffic; or it comes off consoles popped by the paysites (I hate agressive pops, but I do loves me some consoles - heck, with consoles, I've had 1:0!). With a little dumb luck you can get obscenely good ratios off small amounts of traffic. It's some cruel trick of math, I'm sure. When you get into the 100-5000 click range, things get wonky...crest 5000 and things start to normalize again. (Why yes, I have become a stats junkie -why do you ask?)

I suspect some people look at small traffic webmasters and assume we must be cheating to get any sales at all. Ironically, we also often assume those sponsors are cheating, because we get a sale within our first ten clicks, and then nothing for the next three years (yes, I have been in this situation).

Plateman, I completely sympathize with your situation and your feelings. I have never been accused of cheating in this biz, and I pray the day never comes. (I still have nightmares about the time I was falsely accused of shoplifting when I was...10? 12? A long fuckin' time ago. But I digress.) I understand that even if you need the money, it's not about the money.

And with that said, I have to agree with others, it's best to move on. You're only going to hurt yourself if you continue to focus on this incident. I know you want to fight for your honor, but sometimes it's wiser to let sleeping dogs lie. (Lay?) Be the sadder but wiser webmaster, and work to develop closer relationships with your sponsors so stuff like this doesn't happen to you again.

Much luck and all my best wishes to you.

[Sean416]

I just wanted to say I read this entire thread.

[grzepa]

Originally Posted by Sean416

I just wanted to say I read this entire thread.

[Ramster]

Smart post Netpiddler

[susanna]

I am not anti-program because I have run one myself for a long time and I have been ripped off big time. BUT. I find it curious that no one is publicly telling Greg/Sic to "move on and pay him out as its not worth the headache".

Yes I understand that affiliate webmasters are the marketing team "hired" by the paysite and they have the right to fire them on a whim. Yes I understand that aff webmasters have no union. I also see what is right and what is wrong.

I read this entire thread too and I can tell you that when making a choice for a new sponsor it will not be sic. Just based on this thread. 55.00 from sic would buy them a lot of love.

Let me be the first to "publicly" give them my 2 cents. Pay him already.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Netpiddler

That's a tough break plateman... When you are still making your way in the biz every penny counts - but it isn't always about the money (if it is you will have a hard time indeed).

I guess that's where I'm all fucked up. I do this only for the money. I don't do it because it will make my balls larger, give me a clearer complexion, or get me passed the pearly gates. It's all about the money and nothing else.

[Sean416]

Originally Posted by susanna

I read this entire thread too

right on baby!

[Jim]

Susanna
I agree...
When Greenie and I first talked about it, we both said, you pay the guy and say, no more. Especially when there seems to be a problem with the stats knowing the difference between a hit bot and a link checker. To me, there was enough doubt to pay him but also let him know, we were done.

And probably, if they had it to do all over again, that's what they would do. But as I said, if you had no idea who plateman was and only saw the stats, terminating without pay would be called for.

[plateman]

I hate to post again.. but they reviewed my account on my last check in early nov. and sent a notice of revshare will be starting on dec. 6 so I icq greg and ask why, he says its not retaining, So I ask for a pass, they let me in one of there sites because I wanted to see for my self, So the next day I tell him about some problems I found and one thing lead to another and he said I am closing your account and all monies owed will be sent that was dec. 3 so I pull all links (and they have a bunch) So I am waiting for my check and I think anyday now and that was a few good weeks, So then I was cleaning some bookmarks and was gonna delete there link and for the hell of it I tryed To login and it worked and showed a rebill in dec.(now mind you I tryed To login days after he said he was closing and I got the message that my account is on hold) So then we talk and everything is ok I tell him to just leave it open, and I told him that I still need a check for 2 sales that I didnt get payed for and he says email accounting so some time went by and no reply so I icq greg and tell him the problem and I got no email reply and he finds that there is a problem and he agreed that they owe two sales and then while on iQC he thinks somethings wrong because I had x amount of sales one month and none the next month with the same amont of traffic so then he looks at jan. traffic and makes the claim that I am sending fake traffic and I am a fraud and sent bogos sales..

Now whats strange is that they reviewed my account (read the email I got on 12/01/04 and mind you I had no sales after nov. so if I sent bogos sales why did it take them this long and by magic my account reopens(And I ask greg why and he says he must have forgot to close it)

Another thing I had no links anywhere but my LL and I pulled all of them on dec. 3 2004 and had less than 5 banners left..

And greg based his finding on dec. and jan. traffic when I had NO links

and I have proof of everything said and if I really did sent bogus sales would I risk loosing my good name and going to the boards and starting this shit..

And it really makes me feel better that the good people of this board believe's me and they should pay me..

And I think this really helped me because I have more LL wanting to do link trades, more free site builders want to be on my list, And sponsors have emailed and pm me that they want me to have there stuff on my site..

[LowryBigwood]

Hey Plateman,

hang in there. If you're willing to do some link trading with me, i'll do some trading. Pm me or whatever.

[tiny]

"And it really makes me feel better that the good people of this board believe's me and they should pay me..

And I think this really helped me because I have more LL wanting to do link trades, more free site builders want to be on my list, And sponsors have emailed and pm me that they want me to have there stuff on my site.."

Thats because you stuck to your guns my friend.You did the same thing you'd tell your kids to do if your right don't backdown.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by susanna

I find it curious that no one is publicly telling Greg/Sic to "move on and pay him out as its not worth the headache".

A lot of people on here have agreed that he probably should have been paid & SIC Cash isn't the one that keeps posting & bringing this thread back to live. I do believe that they have moved on

[stev0]

Originally Posted by gregtx

account.. I edited his name and personal info b/c i'm being nice


this is January traffic.. and why I took extra time to research the account.. traffic look odd to anyone???


so I pulled Oct traffic... doesn't look too odd..



until I looked at each induvidual signup... which all of these are random examples of... damn.. doesn't everyone wish they had 1:1 conversions!!!! so then we did reverse dns lookup and tracked where all hits were originating from.. the ips.. etc .. i will not post..










Judge for yourself...

Greg, i must admit it looks a little strange... but that proves nothing. Buck up and pay the guy what you owe him, save yourself the hassle. I'm sure in the long run this thread will cost SICCash alot more than $55. Most people cancel trials, I'm surprized you were able to come to the conclusion that this was "fraud" by looking at that small amount of traffic.

I submit to plateman's link site regularly and i've got qutie a few sales off it over the last few months. I'm pretty sure he has better things to do than rip a few signups off from SICCash.

You can check the credit card info can't you? Unless it's his credit card, or the joins are charging back you really don't have any justification to withhold his funds.

I've had stats that look like that in the past, in fact i've been 1:1 - 1:10 with alot of sponsors when I first start, especially if i've got a very targetted banner or link that doesnt send a whole lot of traffic.

[tickler]

Originally Posted by stev0

I've had stats that look like that in the past, in fact i've been 1:1 - 1:10 with alot of sponsors when I first start, especially if i've got a very targetted banner or link that doesnt send a whole lot of traffic.

I get flagged for possible fraud all the time with similar stats like that. The way I have things setup, I generaly have single hits trickling into sponsor sites all the time. So this period I get a sale on site 1:1, and the warning bells go off on their scrubs. After I calmly explain to them to check the historical for more than 1 period, it generally works out to a more normal 1:200-300 range.

[Netpiddler]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I guess that's where I'm all fucked up. I do this only for the money. I don't do it because it will make my balls larger, give me a clearer complexion, or get me passed the pearly gates. It's all about the money and nothing else.

I won't hijack this thread over that reply - but to clarify for those reading (as many are)...

* You can go with a cheaper host to save money - only to find your sites down all the time and no support from the host to fix the issue...

* You can go with a sponsor program because they offer $40 per trial and advertising amazing conversions - only to learn they also offer no support or have shady business practices...

* You can buy content sets for $3 a piece to save money and submit away to high competition sites...

* Those of us who are leaders and mentors in the business could stop helping fellow webmasters for free and start charging them for the simplest of answers... I spend a huge amount of time every day helping others that are struggling or just need answers - should I charge them by the hour - I don't think so...

My point being is that those that see we are a small part of a much bigger picture and put others first from time to time become leaders and mentors in this business. Sure you can be in it for money as this is a business - but as I said - the money isn't everything.

- Netpiddler

[susanna]

Maybe Plateman is an incredibly good salesman with a fully pre-qualified sale BEFORE they click thru?

I remember the days where that was possible without anyone thinking FRAUD.