enough with the 2257 scares!

[ultraero]

I ran into this on a sponsor site regarding the promotional content they were offering. It just seemed like a really crappy way of treating an affiliate. I buy allot of content, and worry about what I buy as to whether its legal, anyway don't want to rant but this was the message:
_______________________________

WARNING !

GxxxaCash DOES NOT automatically provide the legal paperwork (2257) for the content listed below. The use of this content is at your discretion. GxxxaCash will provide 2257 documentation to webmasters who have proven or can prove that they can generate a significant amount of sales as judged by us. To request the 2257 compliant content, please email us at 2257@gxxxacash.com.

is my response to this statement. How about some comments?

So what doyou see as the alternative. give a models ID to anyone who asks for it?

This is the problem with verifying the content is legal. On one hand safety of the affiliates on the other the safety of the model and the future of the business.

Fewer models will work if they see their IDs going to 1,000s of affiliates.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham2

So what doyou see as the alternative. give a models ID to anyone who asks for it?

This is the problem with verifying the content is legal. On one hand safety of the affiliates on the other the safety of the model and the future of the business.

Fewer models will work if they see their IDs going to 1,000s of affiliates.

Thank you!

Believe it or not, models can be quite intelligent folk who do network with each other on things like this. I look forward to the day that models start suing sites for giving away their personal information alongside free content. If the "be-a good-person" responsibility of safeguarding a model's personal information isn't enough of a motivator for some, then maybe the risk of civil suits and losing money will be.

For a gallery submitter, the 2257 scare means paperwork hassles. For a model, it could mean her safety or even her life. I'm not being melodramatic: models are stalked and harassed, online and in person, and it only gets more dangerous when you have sites so shit-scared of jail time that they will risk a model's life to avoid losing affiliates. That, unfortunately, is the very definition of the "evil money-grubbing pornographer" stereotype that so many of us try to break free of. And the way I see it, this is the exact kind of panicky-ass behavior that the 2257 laws were meant to inspire in us.

Originally Posted by furrygirl

Thank you!

Believe it or not, models can be quite intelligent folk who do network with each other on things like this. I look forward to the day that models start suing sites for giving away their personal information alongside free content. If the "be-a good-person" responsibility of safeguarding a model's personal information isn't enough of a motivator for some, then maybe the risk of civil suits and losing money will be.

For a gallery submitter, the 2257 scare means paperwork hassles. For a model, it could mean her safety or even her life. I'm not being melodramatic: models are stalked and harassed, online and in person, and it only gets more dangerous when you have sites so shit-scared of jail time that they will risk a model's life to avoid losing affiliates. That, unfortunately, is the very definition of the "evil money-grubbing pornographer" stereotype that so many of us try to break free of. And the way I see it, this is the exact kind of panicky-ass behavior that the 2257 laws were meant to inspire in us.

Yes models network all thetime, they meet on castings, jobs and in agents offices. How long before one of them realises the cash cow in suing companies for giving out their IDs is the question. Or maybe some cute agent might hit on it.

A lawyer will just be doing an Acacia, pay up or go to court.

[spookyx]

At lotzadollars we don't base it on sales, we base it on the webmaster, we talk with them 1 on 1 before we decide to give out any model info. We also would never give out info on a model without her permission.

We also would not give out model info on purchased content unless we had permission to do so. I know this makes it hard on some webmasters but protecting the model is our #1 priority.

[spookyx]

furrygirl you have a pm

[jsand199]

Well the hard part them becomes how can people like myself, who are new to the biz and working on building sites, even get the legal info required to put up pics?

There has to be some middle ground.

[Linkster]

Easy response - when starting out in the biz there will be a small amount of investment - actually a heck of a lot less than most business's cost to start in. An example would be the content - at $5 or so for a set of pics that is one of the costs, like hosting, etc that is required to get started in the biz. For a small amount of time there have been sponsors that have provided free content - but that was never really an acceptable way of starting out - most LL owners would accept the content in free sites and TGP owners had seen it a "few" more times than the Link Lists. If you are serious about getting started, the small investment in your biz will pay off way more with your own bought content.

[jsand199]

I think I misunderstood.

I bought a few sets of pics. I thought the problem was people where afraid that everyone who bought pics had the ID info. That alone is a bit scary.

But there should be no way that anyone with free pics should get that info.

[Linkster]

jsand199 - if you buy pics they should be providing the info to you - or you shouldnt be buying it - the reputable content sellers will provide the info as has always been the case.

The free content I agree with you on and wish the sponsors would just get rid of it - if they want to have their own hosted gals and hosted free sites for the LLs and TGPs to use thats find as long as the sponsor maintains the info - but if they got rid of the free content half of the problems with model ids would automatically go away and about 90% of the owners of LLs and TGPs would be in ecstacy from having a lot less cheaters and multiple submits to drag through every day

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Easy response - when starting out in the biz there will be a small amount of investment - actually a heck of a lot less than most business's cost to start in. An example would be the content - at $5 or so for a set of pics that is one of the costs, like hosting, etc that is required to get started in the biz. For a small amount of time there have been sponsors that have provided free content - but that was never really an acceptable way of starting out - most LL owners would accept the content in free sites and TGP owners had seen it a "few" more times than the Link Lists. If you are serious about getting started, the small investment in your biz will pay off way more with your own bought content.

I agree. I have seen so many posts on boards in my three years from newbies that decry the "unfairness" of something, (paying for content, hosting, software, billing, etc.), but what my cynical ears are hearing is, "It's not fair! I shouldn't have to invest money in opening a business, everything should be free since I'm just starting out!"

Not trying to pick on you, jsand199, it's just a general observation and pet peeve of mine. Compare the costs of buying even a hundred sets of exclusive content to the price of opening a traditional brick-and-mortar business, and the adult web starts looking a lot friendlier.

[Halfdeck]

Originally Posted by Linkster

The free content I agree with you on and wish the sponsors would just get rid of it

Although I can see how sponsor content may not be the greatest thing to hit LL's, they're gold on a SE page or when promoting sites that produces their own content or are known for a particular style of photography/videos. For promoting a general "Blowjob" site made up of bought non-exclusive pics, I don't see much point in sponsor providing free content.

I remember one time a sponsor's rep called me up on the phone, and I asked him for some photos from the member area, and he kindly emailed me 200 Matrix photos of Avy Scott by the pool....lol. I could download the same pics at Glamour Models Gone Bad, Twistys, etc. I don't bend over backwards promoting a site like that.

On the other hand, Cash Box Office lets their affiliates pull any pic out of their sites' member area. Although their sites are a bit overpriced, its the kind of sponsor content I don't hesitate using.

[Tubey]

Well, there seems to be good pros and cons on all sides, and I can see the day is coming for the online community to figure this out. To make it safe for the models, possible for the webmasters, fair to the newbies, and legal for all. This 2257 thing may or may not go through but it is clear this is a wake up call to come up with a solution. We may not like it but it is coming eventually. Models, producers, sponsors and webmasters need to come up with a way to satisfy all needs and concerns. We need to come up with a way before someone else, (who knows little about the business) does it for us.
With all that being said, ANYONE have any realistic ideas??

Originally Posted by Tubey

With all that being said, ANYONE have any realistic ideas??

Yes IDs and model releases are given out to purchasers of content who become Custodians of Records, the idea that someone can transfer this responsibility to a company/person outside the USA is stupid, or the appoint a lawyer to be Custodian.

The Custodian is responsible for keeping the records and a system that will cross reference the publishing/distribution points with the relevant documents. So he need to know which image relates to which ID.

Again the idea that a site with 1000 models can have 1000 sets of records unrelated again is stupid, especially if the content is given to 1000 affiliates. How it's tracked it simple, watermark the set with a set number then give it out or use the set number in the URL on sets you host.

This is the porn business and as mentioned before if we do not put our ship in order others will for us.

I would bet $100 to 1 cent that some of the content that was pulled down over the last year because IDs could not be produced when demanded contained illegal porn.

Think about that for a second if you pulled down teen porn that had no documents. Imagine standing in front of a policeman with a search warrant looking for under age models.

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by Tubey

With all that being said, ANYONE have any realistic ideas??

The most realistic I can see is that the court that is reviewing the case right now reaffirms their previous stance and ruling when this came up years ago and WMs that post pictures are not counted as sec. producers and designate them only as distributors the same as a newstand selling a magazine.
That is also the most likely scenario which would pretty much leave things the way they have always been.

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by Halfdeck

I remember one time a sponsor's rep called me up on the phone, and I asked him for some photos from the member area, and he kindly emailed me 200 Matrix photos of Avy Scott by the pool....lol. I could download the same pics at Glamour Models Gone Bad, Twistys, etc. I don't bend over backwards promoting a site like that.

And this is exactly why I believe that all content should either cost the WM money to put up - seeing as I, as well as many of my friends in the business paid for this same content when it first came out to produce galleries, free sites and AVS sites and even the mentioned SE type sites - or be provided from within the affiliate sites by the sponsor for their best-producing WMs as has been done for ages.

The fact that those programs blindly give away content that has been bought previously leaves a real bad taste in our mouths and tends to lead us to look for other programs to promote. (something most sponsors probably dont even realize)

If a newbie (although Ive seen loads of people that do this biz for "pizza money" for years also) really wants to start a business in this industry, they need to find out quick that there are costs involved with any start-up and this is not a free ride to give them a side hobby. The sponsors tend to only think of short term returns, and discount the effects of their actions, which in the long run really hurts their bottom line as they are producing most of their own cheater/fraud WMs with this promotional blitz.

Good post Linkster. I think a lot of content producers are moving away from allowing sponsors to give away content. Sell is once to a sponsor who gives it out to 100 for free, I don't think so!!

[Tommy]

I think content should cost a lot more money then it does

I think the cheap content should be 100.00 a set and good stuff going for 3 to 4 hundred

[Linkster]

Tommy - you know I agree with you and always have on the content issue cause I get sick of the money we used to have to spend to get shoots semi-exclusive or exclusive for AVS sites and promotional galleries etc - but it was just the cost of doing business and expected.

The biggest sponsors always had a little group of niche pics for general use, but none of it would get accepted at link lists or tgps cause it had been used hundreds of times before. The WMs that really wanted to try to make a go at the biz spent the money - the rest either gave up not realizing that it would cost money - or became the thieves and scammers that are still around stealing pics and vids.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Tommy

I think content should cost a lot more money then it does

I think the cheap content should be 100.00 a set and good stuff going for 3 to 4 hundred

Exclusive content is that price. It's interesting that Matrix was brought up because Twistys and Medium Pimpin showed pure genius and made bundles on providing hosted galleries. Unfortunately Matrix lost huge amounts because over night all their content was everywhere. When I started I was happy to pay $80 a set but once it was being given away to every TGP it wasn’t worth buying.

[Tubey]

I think, and this is just a thought so far, that sponsors should give out some free content to new webmasters starting out on their program. Sort of a welcome package to get them started, not alot but something to help promote both the sponsor and the new webmaster. They could easily generate a random set from within one of their sites. But after that let them buy it.