An Open Thread To AVN & Internext...

[Useless]

I was going to ask a question, but I just read that I'm not supposed to form an opinion unless I speak to AVN directly upon said opinion's conception.

Far-l, this is how webmasters communicate with each other. This is how we toss around ideas and opinions. If AVN is too big to read the boards, even if a thread is addressed directly to them - fuck 'em. Most of us really don't even care enough to contact AVN. Why? Because they don't seem to care about us. (and some of us are dead sexy) The same shit gets expressed for every show, yet nothing seems to change. I've never been to an AVN extravaganza. I consider attending each and every time, yet I've never been convinced that it's worth the investment.

[Chop Smith]

For some reason, folks are bad about wanting to visit me on Tuesday nights at 7PM. I'll shoot the sob that interrupts me tonight.

Good luck Greenguy and Jim with the interview. It is kind of Far-l and the AVN guy to take the time to visit with ya'll.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I was going to ask a question, but I just read that I'm not supposed to form an opinion unless I speak to AVN directly upon said opinion's conception.

Far-l, this is how webmasters communicate with each other. This is how we toss around ideas and opinions. If AVN is too big to read the boards, even if a thread is addressed directly to them - fuck 'em. Most of us really don't even care enough to contact AVN. Why? Because they don't seem to care about us. (and some of us are dead sexy) The same shit gets expressed for every show, yet nothing seems to change. I've never been to an AVN extravaganza. I consider attending each and every time, yet I've never been convinced that it's worth the investment.

They have made and effort to be on the boards. Even well liked people like Aly took regular bashings as a result. However, conversely, when webmasters have problems then the best place to start resolving them generally is off the boards.

Obviously, this is an issue that should be resolved publicly - but even still covering it on all the boards would be tough.

You have never even been to a show so I am not sure what basis you feel qualified to so vehemently criticize them. I still think that you are entitled to your point of view so if you feel like addressing your issues then come to the show tonight.

[emmanuelle]

I think that a large number of the issues could be resolved by AVN responding to emails and phone calls when we do attempt to reach out for solutions.

Even well liked people like Aly took regular bashings as a result

Unfortunately this comes with the territory when one chooses to represent a company. I'm pretty sure that she knew of people's discontent before accepting the position and responsibility.

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Far-L

They have made and effort to be on the boards. Even well liked people like Aly took regular bashings as a result. However, conversely, when webmasters have problems then the best place to start resolving them generally is off the boards.

Obviously, this is an issue that should be resolved publicly - but even still covering it on all the boards would be tough.

You have never even been to a show so I am not sure what basis you feel qualified to so vehemently criticize them. I still think that you are entitled to your point of view so if you feel like addressing your issues then come to the show tonight.

I always said whatever they were paying Aly wasnt enough for the shit we were all giving her.

Looks like I was right too!

Rick has a find in her...shes one of the most professional people Ive ever encountered in this business. The way she handled herself during all of that was astounding and I'll never have a quarter of her patience and diplomacy skills.

On the other side of this issue I will have to say that some of the minor suggestions we had for the Florida show were implimented. So they are listening just not to the degree that we all would like for them too.

Ill have to say that no matter who puts on a show... AVN,Ynot,The Zoo or even Lightspeed... I have always been able to justify each and every trip I have taken.

In some instances it may be more difficult than others. I think success at a show is measured more by a person/company's skill with planning and execution of goals.

That being said...personally I expect Vegas to be my biggest show ever! In spite of the prices, crowds etc etc.

Everyone has known about the situation since August. What each of us has chosen to do about it will determine your amount of success.

[RawAlex]

Far-L, I spent a fair bit of time with Aly at the last two conventions. At the end of the day, some of the things we talked about got resolved (like shipping badges head of time), but in the end, I came to understand that very little will change inside AVN without financial motive. That financial motive is not there at this point.

Alex

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Far-L

You have never even been to a show so I am not sure what basis you feel qualified to so vehemently criticize them.

I criticize them for all of the reasons that I have for not attending one of their shows.

Since my question really doesn't imply anything negative about AVN or the show, I'm going to go ahead and toss it out there. I've asked this question mulitple times in the last 2-3 years and usually get the same reply from my fellow webmasters, but I'd love AVN's take on it.

Why SHOULD an eternally small webmaster like me attend Internext and will the reason(s) justify the expenditure?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

...Why SHOULD an eternally small webmaster like me attend Internext and will the reason(s) justify the expenditure?

Best question asked in this thread

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

Best question asked in this thread

The answer though is painfully obvious - to network and learn from one's peers and leaders in the industry.

AVN has historically done the biggest shows that have attracted the widest range of people - that is their most apparent asset.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Far-L

The answer though is painfully obvious - to network and learn from one's peers and leaders in the industry...

Agreed. However, it's the escalating costs of attending and the associated decline in the number of peers attending that is making many of us question if attending Internext is still cost effective.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Far-L

The answer though is painfully obvious - to network and learn from one's peers and leaders in the industry.

So then it's not worth it? Ha! I kill me.

You were supposed to save the answer for the radio show. Besides, when you toss in everyone elses' complaints and concerns, it really mucks up your answer. Some would say that networking and learning are difficult enterprises in the show's current state. Additionally, the cost factor is critical for a guy like me. I'm a hazardous combination of poor and cheap. I really want to go to Internext, I really do, but it's going to take a lot to make me think that it's worth shelling out the dough. (I also realize that it isn't AVN's job to convince me to go.)

Thank you for your responses, Far-l. I've heard good things about you and it is nice to see an obviously respected individual standing up for AVN.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Toby

Agreed. However, it's the escalating costs of attending and the associated decline in the number of peers attending that is making many of us question if attending Internext is still cost effective.

That is something well worth addressing.

[Greenguy]

Trip for 2 to Vegas from Jan 4-8 (let's face it, most people travel with someone)

Airfare from Buffalo (good because it is far) direct flight on Southwest (cheap) arrive 1/4 & depart 1/8 - $490.00 (booked in September)

Hotel -
Cheapest room at The Venetian for 4 nights - $1116.00
Flamingo - $676.00 (but then throw in the time to walk to The Venetian or the money to take a cab there at least 4 times, but in all probability, 8 times)

Expo Passes - $340 (low end) to $650 (for everything)

Food? $100/day for 2 people is probably not that far fetched. So now your at $2000 to $2750 (give or take) before JoeBlow Webmaster leaves the house.

I'm gonna try to word this part so that I don't come off as some sort of rich asshole I know how much I make & I pretty much know how much people around me in my personal life make & when it comes to money, there's a factor of 10 involved. ($200 to me is $20 to them kinda thing) If you put that personal theory of mine into this equation so that I can grasp what it means to Joe Blow Webmasters, I'd have to actually consider spending $20,000-27,500 for 4 days in Vegas.

I make a good living, but that's fucking insane.

I'm really hoping that makes sense to some people

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

So then it's not worth it? Ha! I kill me.

You were supposed to save the answer for the radio show. Besides, when you toss in everyone elses' complaints and concerns, it really mucks up your answer. Some would say that networking and learning are difficult enterprises in the show's current state. Additionally, the cost factor is critical for a guy like me. I'm a hazardous combination of poor and cheap. I really want to go to Internext, I really do, but it's going to take a lot to make me think that it's worth shelling out the dough. (I also realize that it isn't AVN's job to convince me to go.)

Thank you for your responses, Far-l. I've heard good things about you and it is nice to see an obviously respected individual standing up for AVN.

Thanks - I agree with you that figuring out a cost so that even the lower income members can attend is important.

Please bear in mind that I did ask for a discount arrangement for amateurs and they went out of their way to accomodate the request.

I have not always had a rosy relationship with AVN - but I can go into that on the show...

[DangerDave]

Why SHOULD an eternally small webmaster like me attend Internext and will the reason(s) justify the expenditure?

I'd have to actually consider spending $20,000-27,500 for 4 days in Vegas.

Especially when success is achievable without ever attending Internext

DD

[Chop Smith]

Originally Posted by DangerDave

Especially when success is achievable without ever attending Internext

This is very true.

The best money I ever sent in this business was the trip to Surfn and Dr B's first Chicago meeting. Small enough to remember who you met.

Right after then carried a shit load of shirts and hauled ass to Vegas. I spend a couple grand to go to Vegas specifically to meet some GG&J board members. Never regretted the cost of the trip because doors started opening for me. I am not that successful but the Chicago and Vegas trips sure moved me closer to my goal.

However, small regional shows might be the place to do business and Vegas might be where you go to gamble

[Greenguy]

Live Half Assed Webmaster Radio Tonight @ 8 PM EST

Timely Topic: Far-L From HomeGrown & Farley From AVN Talking About Internext

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[Surfn]

Thanks Chop I know that was my goal. Make everyone comfortable and do some bidness


Look for an announcement from me on or about January 15th for a spring gathering

[docholly]

Originally Posted by Far-L

The answer though is painfully obvious - to network and learn from one's peers and leaders in the industry.

Originally Posted by DangerDave

Especially when success is achievable without ever attending Internext

DD

I seem to recall one of the best networking experiences took place in a non descript house in Greenwood..

and in attending last year, I did more business outside of convention than inside.. which could be replicated using the aforementioned camhouse and backyard..

*flashing eyes at Far-L*..

[Linkster]

Far-L - you know I respect you and always have, that said I know that your view on this is based on your niche and "thrust" of business with the cross-jumping into the AEE and other opportunites that are provided with the current show format - it makes sense for you to fully support the show the way it is developing - heck I sure would. there are two points that I always have stinging in the back of my mind though - the first being the "deals" that you are able to make for your amateurs - which although I fully respect you for being able to do so - kind of grates on quite a few amateur site owners that read this - I'm pretty sure they aren't going to post their thoughts, but it kind of stinks for them as they don't have the recognition or background to be able to negotiate anything with AVN. Again this is not to take anything away from you - it's just one symptom of a system that is broken.

Second - over the last 4 or 5 shows, I have seen and heard over and over on boards like this (and you know as well as I do that this is not the only board with threads like this), that there are a huge majority of webmasters that are the people trying to eek out a living just barely, who have no interest whatsoever in crossover to the video side of adult entertainment, who are the trench webmasters trying to find a way to network with their peers, but are flabbergasted by the prices, the locations and times that generate those prices, and the general apathetic responses by the creators of the event. These are the 80% WMs - the majority that cannot go to these shows because of the prices, that although they would love to network with their peers, are relagated to listening to the sponsors talk about the parties they went to, the 20% that can afford (most just barely) the cost of the show talk about the great networking that went on and (the worst of all) the total silence from AVN about any changes that might be made to give the "trench WMs" a chance to take part in their industries premier annual show.

Just my opinion again but its based on a hell of a lot of conversations with those "trench WMs"

[Toby]

Wouldn't Internext be of more value to the sponsors and exhibitors if more "trench WM's", to borrow Linkster's term, were able to attend?

I saved all year to be able to go to Miami in August and I shared a room to cut that cost in half. The cost makes going to Vegas out of the question. I don't care about attending AEE or CES, and I'll wager most other "trench WM's" don't either.

I guess the bottom line is whether or not AVN wants Internext to remain to be a show for webmasters. If so, changes need to be made to control the costs at both shows. The first step is getting someone on staff, or as a consultant, that has been a webmaster, or "traffic guy", as Farley called us.

Given the current status quo, I don't think I'll be attending another Internext.

Just my 2¢ worth.

[AVNFarley]

Greenguy and Jim,
Thanks so much for having me on today. I think I was able to shed some light on a number of questions you and your listeners (sorry emmanuelle) had. I'm happy to say 3 of your listeners have already reached out to me tonight. As I said on the show, I'll be happy to keep posting answers to any questions on this thread and I'll keep everyone up to date on Internext info.

Please email me at farley@avn.com
AIM= AVNFarley
AVN Contacts http://www.avnmedianetwork.com
Internext info- http://www.internext-expo.com
FREE AVN Online Subscription http://www.avnonline.com/subscribe
Send Press Releases to pr@avnonline.com
Watch the Internext Expo Live for 3 days at http://www.InternextLive.com
Industry News and Info http://www.AVNOnline.com

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by AVNFarley

I think I was able to shed some light on a number of questions you and your surfers had.

So we're surfers now?

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Far-L

I am looking forward to this.

I have a question... How many people, besides those who have stated here otherwise, have actually talked directly to AVN about their issues and not just griped on a board about them?

AVNOnline Management is QUITE aware of my position. I have also relayed that 99.9% of ALL opinions I've read on the various boards are very much along the lines of my opinion.

We have publicly stated that we are boycotting this year in Vegas because of the stupidity of scheduling.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

Live Half Assed Webmaster Radio Tonight @ 8 PM EST

Timely Topic: Far-L From HomeGrown & Farley From AVN Talking About Internext

Listen LIVE on the Greenguy & Jim Radio Network!
Just Click Here (or Copy & Paste this URL - http://radio.greenguysboard.com:8000/ggaj - into your media player)

Chat LIVE with us in the Greenguy & Jim Chat Room
To connect using IRC:
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port: 6667

Feed will be up at 7 (30 min from now) & show will start at 8 (90 min from now)

I was unable to listen live. Is the show available for download and listen?